What if COE system was not introduced in Singapore?

[W210k]

Even with the COE price high up there, everytime biddings were oversubscribed. Isn't that defeat the purpose. Cat A quota let say 550, whether the price of the COE is SGD100k or SGD20k, the new car registration is still the same. What is there to control the number of car on the road

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

The LTA can and should continue to reduce the COE quotas made available per month/year.

In your Cat A = 550 example, if Cat A continues to be over-subscribed, it should then be reduced to 300, 200 and 100 the following months.

To zero even.

This is the most-direct knob that the LTA has access to, in controlling vehicle population growth!

 

Just imagine if LTA releases only 50 Cat A COEs over a period of 2-3 years?

The premiums will go through the roof.

Existing near-10-yr-old car owners will just de-Reg & scrap their cars (since PQP will be sky-high too)!

End result = congestion-free roads, after 3-5 years!

[13177]

If i not wrong, their plan is to cut the quota gradually to zero/negative growth. Dun expect them to straight away cut to negative, give them sometime, i think the rate will be near zero or negative in future.

Their plan is to do a 'clean up' on the number of cars on the road now, due to they have released way too many COE quota back then.

[Mustank]

Cycling is still the solution.

 

IMHO, if a person can travel to work on public transport, i.e. not burdened with having to send wife and kids to school, etc., then what's stopping him or her from cycling to work? That is, if the workplace is within reasonable distance, e.g. 10km or 15km, definitely less than an hour's cycling?

Definitely better than having to queue up and endure the packed buses and trains.

 

If those working nearby can switch to cycling, I believe this will ease up congestion plenty. Also need to educate kids on how to get to school on their own, again, by cycling. But first there's a need to make cycling more safe than it is today. I find that surprisingly it is safer to cycle in malaysia than singapore. In malaysia there are road shoulders marked by white line, and this gives some space for cyclists.

 

 

i agree with you man! today newspaper say LTA/MOT give out what prize what prize for various tranposrt related break through. last few days still got talk about LTA looking at what car pooling and stagerring working hours to ease congestion.

 

but the true way to reduce congestion is to decentralise CBD to enable people to literally cycle to work.

[Dallii]

well, COE could always have been a balloting process w/o the need to pay, but up the ARF tax to make up for the loss of govt income, aka tax the supercars more? then u still control car population, but not the ridiculous car price we see.

 

of course, there can be clauses that say if you anyhow bid and dun buy a car, you will be penalised $70,000 for not buying the car but bidding right?

[KARTer]

Re your para-1, can. But we'd end up with the crawling jams similar to big cities in Asia!

A whole big car park of a city - akin to bodied sprawled sleeping in a tiny 1-rm HDB.

You want that?

 

Re your last para, yes a world class public transportation is being worked, toward providing alternative transportation to all who can no longer afford to own cars. But this must sink in first - not every family can own cars.

Should read my two paras together. If you split them, you will get jammed the whole island. I wonder why you chose to read them separately?

 

For a small island with 6-7m populaiton, we cant neglect public transport system and start to build/expand the existing underdesigned one only when demands far exceed supply, which is the situation we see since 2-3 years ago. LTA better speed up and not delay any furhter.

 

Ultimately only an efficient public transport system can solve the problem of road / train congestions we have been suffering. The ERP/COE system could only serve as a stop-gap cure although LTA very much would like to stick with it to continue milk money from road users.

 

The sooner we get an efficient public transport system the better and get rid of COE/ERP when we reach there.

 

At the same time, the longer COE/ERP system stays, the more money LTA will make... this could be the reason why they are really not keen to speed up giving us a world class public transport system coz it will make COE/ERP reduntant and kill their cashcow. No wonder only after public complaints become too loud to ignore they start expanding the public transport system, but its late.

[KARTer]

i agree with you man! today newspaper say LTA/MOT give out what prize what prize for various tranposrt related break through. last few days still got talk about LTA looking at what car pooling and stagerring working hours to ease congestion.

 

but the true way to reduce congestion is to decentralise CBD to enable people to literally cycle to work.

The ideas below are not new, wonder why LTA has been ignoring them all these years:-

 

- Cycling to work as much as possible

- Decentralise places with high tensity of workers

- Staggered / flexi working hours

- Working from home

- etc

[KARTer]

Their plan is to do a 'clean up' on the number of cars on the road now, due to they have released way too many COE quota back then.

Past few years, they released too many COEs:- their revenue from sales of COEs shot up

Due to more COEs released, more cars are put on the roads ----> congestions -----> increase in ERP charges ------- increase in ERP revenue..

 

who's the winner? who are the losers?

[Mustank]

The ideas below are not new, wonder why LTA has been ignoring them all these years:-

 

- Cycling to work as much as possible

- Decentralise places with high tensity of workers

- Staggered / flexi working hours

- Working from home

- etc

 

my guess is they are doing things within their control. to solve the problem need political will right from the top

[W210k]

PROVIDED THAT ...

the majority of the populace get and accept fact that they are no longer in the running as potential car buyers/owners.

That they have indeed been marginalized, even if they are middle-incomed.

The quicker this mindset happens, the faster it will facilitate these same group to switch to public transport, in sync with the govt's plan to revamp and upgrade our aging public transport system.

 

Should read my two paras together. If you split them, you will get jammed the whole island. I wonder why you chose to read them separately?

 

For a small island with 6-7m populaiton, we cant neglect public transport system and start to build/expand the existing underdesigned one only when demands far exceed supply, which is the situation we see since 2-3 years ago. LTA better speed up and not delay any furhter.

 

Ultimately only an efficient public transport system can solve the problem of road / train congestions we have been suffering. The ERP/COE system could only serve as a stop-gap cure although LTA very much would like to stick with it to continue milk money from road users.

 

The sooner we get an efficient public transport system the better and get rid of COE/ERP when we reach there.

 

[Joseph22]

The ideas below are not new, wonder why LTA has been ignoring them all these years:-

 

- Cycling to work as much as possible - already happening liao

- Decentralise places with high tensity of workers - Think that is their plan. but building need time

- Staggered / flexi working hours - This one is not their business. individual company have to decide

- Working from home - Same as above

- etc - nothing to say dont put ETC lah

Edited April 4, 2012 by Joseph22

[KARTer]

i wanted to put "pls add" but ended up "etc"....

[Joseph22]

i wanted to put "pls add" but ended up "etc"....

okay lah.. sometime typo okay.. dont be like me.. most of the time typo

 

Anyway i think of all the suggestion, Stagged timing is one that sound okay but in actual fact not possible.

 

the reason why everyone start around the same time is for obvious business reason.

[KARTer]

PROVIDED THAT ...

the majority of the populace get and accept fact that they are no longer in the running as potential car buyers/owners.

That they have indeed been marginalized, even if they are middle-incomed.

The quicker this mindset happens, the faster it will facilitate these same group to switch to public transport, in sync with the govt's plan to revamp and upgrade our aging public transport system.

Change of mindset is one thing, but the more important thing is the product itself should sell.... ie the public transport system itself should be good that it attracts users with little prompting.... users are smart, they know what's good when they see it.

 

Existing transport system has not reached there yet, no matter how much the mindset changes. Will you give up your car and take trains/buses today?

 

Communters have very straight forward bench marks on the choice of transport: is it efficient, affordable, safe, reliable? when the transport system matches these benchmarks, they will use it.

[KARTer]

okay lah.. sometime typo okay.. dont be like me.. most of the time typo

 

Anyway i think of all the suggestion, Stagged timing is one that sound okay but in actual fact not possible.

 

the reason why everyone start around the same time is for obvious business reason.

Actually there's another thing which make morning peak hour traffic too congested: parents sending their kids to school in the morning. We can see the difference comparing school terms and holidays, the congestion on the roads suddenly almost disappear during holidays!!

 

The lack of efficient / affordable school bus system makes parents rather send their kids to school instead of using school bus.

 

At the moment, school buses are:- too early (for the 1st kid to get on the bus), and a few other drawbacks. thats why parents dont use them. but i am quite sure this problem can be solved if the parties involved really want to tackle it.

 

One school bus takes about 12-20 kids to school, it will take another 12-20 cars if the parents fetch the kids in their car. ie private cars increase congestion by 3-5 times (lets say one bus takes up about 3-5 cars' road space)

Edited April 4, 2012 by KARTer

[Joseph22]

Actually there's another thing which make morning peak hour traffic too congested: parents sending their kids to school in the morning. We can see the difference comparing school terms and holidays, the congestion on the roads suddenly almost disappear during holidays!!

 

The lack of efficient / affordable school bus system makes parents rather send their kids to school instead of using school bus.

 

At the moment, school buses are:- too early (for the 1st kid to get on the bus), and a few other drawbacks. thats why parents dont use them. but i am quite sure this problem can be solved if the parties involved really want to tackle it.

 

One school bus takes about 12-20 kids to school, it will take another 12-20 cars if the parents fetch the kids in their car. ie private cars increase congestion by 3-5 times (lets say one bus takes up about 3-5 cars' road space)

actually for me is opposite.. during holiday. i face more jam...

 

anyway, school buses is not a good way to solve problem. they started too early i will rather drive my children to school myself.

 

Sorry but i am a paraniod on this type of things. i dont trust my children life to a bus driver. even if they are generally safe, i cant afford for one xiao kia to happen. early in the morning easy to fall aslp for driver. Actually that is the same reason i refuse to hire a maid to look after my new born children and chose to travel far to place them with my parents or inlaws.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Joseph22

[KARTer]

actually for me is opposite.. during holiday. i face more jam...

 

anyway, school buses is not a good way to solve problem. they started too early i will rather drive my children to school myself.

 

Sorry but i am a paraniod on this type of things. i dont trust my children life to a bus driver. even if they are generally safe, i cant afford for one xiao kia to happen. early in the morning easy to fall aslp for driver. Actually that is the same reason i refuse to hire a maid to look after my new born children and chose to travel far to place them with my parents or inlaws.

your baby is a lucky baby, father so sayang him (or her?)....

 

btw, how come school holidays more jam for you? it should be the other way round

[Joseph22]

your baby is a lucky baby, father so sayang him (or her?)....

 

btw, how come school holidays more jam for you? it should be the other way round

 

its a her... anyway now 3 and 5 liao... 3 one more naughty always bully 5 one...

 

err.. why more jam for me huh?? because i decentralise liao.. i live in jurong work in jurong or tuas mah

[Darthrevan]

The ideas below are not new, wonder why LTA has been ignoring them all these years:-

 

- Cycling to work as much as possible

- Decentralise places with high tensity of workers

- Staggered / flexi working hours

- Working from home

- etc

 

another idea is to stagger working hours and run office like a factory..eg. 6am-3pm..2pm-11pm..people need to change their mindset abt working hours..shopping malls can operate 24/7 and weekdays and weekends are no different..whats the point of having shopping malls which not much shoppers patronize on weekdays 10am-6pm..government institutions open during "office working hours" and only retirees and housewives are available to go during those hours..it should be operated around the clock