Unless we have more babies, we need to accept immigrants

[Nolicense]

i agree nobody gets married to ultimately get divorced.

but there are numerous cases where wife earns more than husband and yet husband must pay alimony and does not get to keep the HDB flat.

 

you know property is the most troublesome and expensive thing in singapore.

finding a place to rent is also not easy.

bro, wait until you experience it then you know.

 

PS: oh and the alimony paid to the man is a pittance. the man is unemployed and been a house husband for long time in the marriage. the woman keeps the property too if i recall

Edited February 4, 2012 by Nolicense

[Kiadaw]

Let's face it.we need the population to increase. Part of it is to create wealth, the other part is to create a base to support the aged.

However, the 90s we have a slow and steady stream of manageable immigrants.but by end of 2000s, they brought in floodgates because they want to achieve KPI to get extreme mirrion bonus.

As the country tasted extreme GDP growth, they cannot decline. Just like if in the 90s the economic growth is 3% and now 10%, if 3% become 2% still ok, but if 10% become 5% all hell break loose.

That is the price to pay when you get greedy.

Grow too big too fast is in itself a disaster waiting to happen.

The problem now is they can't slow down as any decline will hurt the population more than they can bear...

There is 2 main issue with Population growth in Singapore. There is also another issue with population growth base on immigration, all unique to our small tiny Sunny Island.

 

First, Singapore is Small, & already the 2nd most crowded country in the world. There is simply no space to grow without big sacrificial of space.

 

Also, growth base on immigration, but we must also see the quality of the immigrants, be it FWs, or FTs.

 

& lastly, & importantly, due our government retirees policies, which is basically giving back your own money in CPF (slowly), having more immigants does not help alot in supporting us when we are old. If anything, some of these immigrants will be competiting with elderly for simple jobs, like cashier at 7-11, if the elderly need extra money to get by.

 

In many countries, the taxes paid, are used to support the elderly directly, so more working people, more financial support available for the elderly in form of pension, & healthcare. In such a system, I will agree that having immigrants can help us.

[Tigerwoods]

the population increase in order to create wealth part i have to disagree.

did real income increase? NO

create a lower dependency ratio? this is a magical figure like GDP. can see cannot touch. you see, why is there more aged table cleaners? we managed to get a lower dependency ratio right? there are more people in old age homes and highly stressed healthcare workers.. most of the imports are not to shore up this area but some is better than none. i digress..

 

what you are talking about is the addiction to GDP growth. like a drug. a torrent of money into the economy leads the gahmen to think everything can solve with money. can milk the local populace for more money.

when the money dries up, the populace also no money. gahmen already earmark money to spend like LTA build big HQ. HDB build big HQ and put up many LCD TV in the HDB lobby. you know how gahmen is like. if the alloted budget is not spent, next year budget is reduced.

 

they can slow down and stop being so spendthrift with tax money.

I see the probelm is the slowdown will hurt the gahmen more than they can bear.

land prices fall, SLA takings drop.

rent prices fall, Reits drop. SMEs happy becos of the cost is getting out of hand.

transport, utilities.. whatever you can think of.. its all gahmen owned. they have their profit they want to maintain.

without these extra population, they will not get this kind of super profits..

Yes increase population in part to create wealth us correct.

The problem as you said it is they forgot to include the people into the equation.

The other point you mentioned is the approved budget to build beautiful gahmen HQA.D.

Their facade the quality as compared to our miserable HDB quality.

All these happenings is so like the events happening in the book Animal Farm.

 

[Jasonjst]

We can import baby mah... Two bird killed with a stone! U want baby can have more, moreover the baby is foreigner

 

Yal lor .. not only babies children also can . Those older couples will want .

[Felipe]

I thought he would say why Singaporeans are not having babies

[Nolicense]

There is 2 main issue with Population growth in Singapore. There is also another issue with population growth base on immigration, all unique to our small tiny Sunny Island.

 

First, Singapore is Small, & already the 2nd most crowded country in the world. There is simply no space to grow without big sacrificial of space.

 

Also, growth base on immigration, but we must also see the quality of the immigrants, be it FWs, or FTs.

 

& lastly, & importantly, due our government retirees policies, which is basically giving back your own money in CPF (slowly), having more immigants does not help alot in supporting us when we are old. If anything, some of these immigrants will be competiting with elderly for simple jobs, like cashier at 7-11, if the elderly need extra money to get by.

 

In many countries, the taxes paid, are used to support the elderly directly, so more working people, more financial support available for the elderly in form of pension, & healthcare. In such a system, I will agree that having immigrants can help us.

 

Yes, I think in terms of how the pension is supposed to function, the dependency ratio is what is supposed to do.

in singapore case, this is exactly NOT the case.

its all CPF, our own money. and the gahmen pay us less than inflation interest and use that money to build e.g. MRT and transfer profits and earnings to a corporatised entity which temasek holds.. whose money is it??

[Tigerwoods]

There is 2 main issue with Population growth in Singapore. There is also another issue with population growth base on immigration, all unique to our small tiny Sunny Island.

 

First, Singapore is Small, & already the 2nd most crowded country in the world. There is simply no space to grow without big sacrificial of space.

 

Also, growth base on immigration, but we must also see the quality of the immigrants, be it FWs, or FTs.

 

& lastly, & importantly, due our government retirees policies, which is basically giving back your own money in CPF (slowly), having more immigants does not help alot in supporting us when we are old. If anything, some of these immigrants will be competiting with elderly for simple jobs, like cashier at 7-11, if the elderly need extra money to get by.

 

In many countries, the taxes paid, are used to support the elderly directly, so more working people, more financial support availably for the elderly in form of pension, & healthcare. In such a system, I will agree that having immigrants can help us.

Population increase by organic growth is sustainable and beneficial but population increase by importation is destructive.

The former knit the country together by way of filial piety and create true wealth, as the latter only increase GDP.

 

[Richard_Peh]

Like it or not, unless PAP lower COE & HDB pricing, we need to vote WP for next GE2016.

[Happily1986]

my period is due today...but nothing yet.

*worried*

 

i already told you liao, you gotta ink yourself hard hard on a red inkpad then can lai ang.

 

ask you become self inking stamp you don't want, now complain complain.

[Thaiyotakamli]

Yal lor .. not only babies children also can . Those older couples will want .

At least children we grow them, nurture them and make them love singapore.. Those old couple coming wont love sg one

[Tigerwoods]

Yes, I think in terms of how the pension is supposed to function, the dependency ratio is what is supposed to do.

in singapore case, this is exactly NOT the case.

its all CPF, our own money. and the gahmen pay us less than inflation interest and use that money to build e.g. MRT and transfer profits and earnings to a corporatised entity which temasek holds.. whose money is it??

that is why I'm very unhappy with the system.

Every thing they plan and implement only benefit a small pool of people.

The rest of us children of a lesser God have to digg and find ways to crawl out of poverty.

Yes it not good for the poor be given handouts every time but the rich small pool of people they are feeding shouldn't be above the law either.

Look at the way the 2 big SWFs are doing? It is not anywhere near the performance levels of the people helming it in past.

When you give money to prudent people you can sleep soundly, but if you give money to gluttons...

[Kiadaw]

Yes, I think in terms of how the pension is supposed to function, the dependency ratio is what is supposed to do.

in singapore case, this is exactly NOT the case.

its all CPF, our own money. and the gahmen pay us less than inflation interest and use that money to build e.g. MRT and transfer profits and earnings to a corporatised entity which temasek holds.. whose money is it??

 

Yes, now it is still not a problem, as our parents time, the flat is affordable, & doesn't take too long to be fully paid. Now a huge chunk of many couples retirement saving aka CPF is being used to pay for the high cost of housing, & for almost, or even exceed retirement age.

 

The CPF return below inflation rate is also so wrong in so many ways. It is taunting to think what the future holds for our next generation. A lot of the GDP is due to properties & immigration. The 2 things that we know is not sustainable in Singapore, just purely looking at our land size.

 

We also have to at least think about the relative benefit of new immigrants vs how the prices for housing increase due to the influx. Is the benefit of cheaper labour offsetted by the huge rent, due to land evaluation prices. Does our salary increase offset the huge inflation & housing price.

 

A lot of people get rich, many in this forum as well due to properties, buy sell, or rent.

 

This generation, for sure, its not a big problem, but come the next generation for our Children, its anyone guess. The cards we can play today (like buy sell rent properties) may not be so playable in their time.

 

Just look at the car market, when the quote increase so much during the 'golden 2006-2009' period, all the major dealers are having a big windfall, now, the quota drop to nearly zero growth, a lot of agents face the axe.

 

Thats my view, but I could be wrong.

[JJ_JJ]

Yes, I think in terms of how the pension is supposed to function, the dependency ratio is what is supposed to do.

in singapore case, this is exactly NOT the case.

its all CPF, our own money. and the gahmen pay us less than inflation interest and use that money to build e.g. MRT and transfer profits and earnings to a

corporatised entity which temasek holds.. whose money is it??

 

 

Agreed. Precisely so when they take your CPF monies and invest it to make easily 10%onwards averagely a year and return only 2.5% on interest for OA,

4% for SA.

 

Use our monies to roll in profits and give us the tokens which cant even fight inflations. Based on average inflation rate of just 3%, our money inside CPF board

gets smaller in terms of future value.

[JJ_JJ]

You are correct.

 

 

 

Yes, now it is still not a problem, as our parents time, the flat is affordable, & doesn't take too long to be fully paid. Now a huge chunk of many couples retirement saving aka CPF is being used to pay for the high cost of housing, & for almost, or even exceed retirement age.

 

The CPF return below inflation rate is also so wrong in so many ways. It is taunting to think what the future holds for our next generation. A lot of the GDP is due to properties & immigration. The 2 things that we know is not sustainable in Singapore, just purely looking at our land size.

 

We also have to at least think about the relative benefit of new immigrants vs how the prices for housing increase due to the influx. Is the benefit of cheaper labour offsetted by the huge rent, due to land evaluation prices. Does our salary increase offset the huge inflation & housing price.

 

A lot of people get rich, many in this forum as well due to properties, buy sell, or rent.

 

This generation, for sure, its not a big problem, but come the next generation for our Children, its anyone guess. The cards we can play today (like buy sell rent properties) may not be so playable in their time.

 

Just look at the car market, when the quote increase so much during the 'golden 2006-2009' period, all the major dealers are having a big windfall, now, the quota drop to nearly zero growth, a lot of agents face the axe.

 

Thats my view, but I could be wrong.

 

[Nolicense]

that's why there is this reverse mortage thing..

but in a deflating economy and high inflation and high interest environment.. i don't know what would happen

[Turret]

 

fortunately, he did not reiterate his view during the days leading up to the election.. otherwise that would cause the ruling party another GRC or single ward seat.. he is not that senile as I thought to be afterall..

 

 

[Good-Carbuyer]

I thought he would say why Singaporeans are not having babies

I thought we used high inflation to prevent another baby-boom like after WW2? He lost touch with the current environment?

[Good-Carbuyer]

"He noted how trends of women being more highly educated and the movement toward greater gender equality at the workplace have contributed to the phenomenon of a declining birth rate, adding that currently, some 44.2 per cent of men and 31 per cent of women between the ages of 30 and 34 are still single."

 

Then get rid of the women charter la. Men where dare to get married with that charter in place?

 

That's why, sometimes I think the way Arab does it is good. Women will always be 2nd to men and they will never get into declining birth rate problem since most women don't work and they don't argue. They also can't divorce the man.

I believe sexual equality = strile males + barren females