Another pussy in making....

[Raymondism]

Totally agree with you big boss!

 

balls carrier

[Cerano]

ah ser, frankly speaking i don't know whether you have friends who are teachers. Most importantly teachers who are old birds who have been in the service long enough to witness the whole transition of the education system from one centred around old school corporal punishment to one which espouses alot of LJ sai about 爱的教育。

 

well at least when i was in primary school, my teachers spank us readily in class if we fell out of discipline order. In secondary school, my discipline mistress was an ASP in the VSC. Once every 2 weeks, she will conduct attire and neatness checks. KNN, even the ah beng ah seng in schools also dont dare to play punk with her. The schoolyard i know was run like a tight ship. it might be harrowing in those days being terrorised by teachers who were zealous about such things down to a T but trust me, it is very much preferred to an alternative scenario, seeing some random student take on the school and win based on some technicalities from child and/or young people psychology. Where's the dignity and respects left for teachers?

 

And where does this leave us, the compliant lot? Stupid, square and unable to think out of the box to beat the system? What sort of values are you instilling in the heads of so many?

 

I can tell you straight. if i wasn't disciplined and/or manhandled the old school way, i might have gone astray. I might never have turned out the way i am today.

 

Before you go around espousing the finer points of child handling as validated by child psychologists and/or behavioural scientists, let me put something plain to you. Education is not Finance. One does not tweak education policies and change the education model just so that changes, hopefully for the better, will surface in say 5 years or even 1 year time. The dynamics of an education system are simply not as fast as compared to the state of flux/turmoil in an economy. Rather, what one changes now might only manifest in some unforseen repercussions 50 years later. Many years later, when that very cohort has graduated, gone into the workplace, became parents of their own and found themselves at the crossroads of their very lives.

 

So before you make a judgement call, saying whatever whatever that is done now is wrong, what justifies you to say that? Some central dogma from child psychology? Think again.

 

The lao jiao kind are totally different. My friends are typically in 40-50 age, not the 60-70 age past retirement who would believe in corporal punishment.

 

Maybe it worked in the past but with a changing generation of students, is physical violence or physical punishment the best, the most effective?

 

Respect is earned not from your rank or strictness or appointment. We dont need Captain Blighs in our education system. Such oddballs and lowballs should be removed due to their lack of professionalism.

 

You can earn the respect of your students through fairness and compassion and going the extra mile to help them.

 

All of these examples can be found here

 

http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/stomp/sg...acher_nominees/

 

Do students of today remember the fierce ones who disciplined them 2-3 years ago for talking in class or the nice teacher who went through every topic with them painstakingly and bought the class breakfast during exams?

 

This guy's comments sums up my thoughts

 

Headhunterx said on 13 Jan, 2012 Report as offensive Humiliating a child no matter what his offences are is not acceptable IMHO.

 

If ur a teacher because u want to educate, this is not the way to do it. Tough men don't grow up in midst of humiliations and disrespect. They grew up learning love, integrity, responsibilities and respect for one another. And don't forget, adolescents learn from your generation. It is you, who brought them up in this manner of education.

 

Furthermore my last point of contention is the lack of uniformity in standards

 

 

"According to the article, the spokesperson for MOE and 2 'veteran' so-called

principals stated that every school has its own policy on disciplining students

about hair issues. So with this statement, the public would deduce that each

school in Singapore is given the freedom to discipline its students according to

their whims and fancies?!. From Stomp

 

Moe should redress this. Not leave punishments to an overzealous headmaster. If its a standardised, fair punishment then by all means accept it.

 

[Unfair]

I also got my hair cut by discipline mistress in sec school.

 

There may be a rule/guideline about hair length. But there sure isn't any authority from them to cut student's hair.

 

There was also a rule about coloured bras. Dont tell me they can rip them off right ?

 

Don't always talk about last time crap, people who were not that educated might not know their rights.

[Cerano]

Precisely.

 

In army, when you are sported with long hair, u dun get just yr hair snipped by the RSM. You probably will be confined, running round the track and having to do 20 to 30 push ups.

 

In school, you will get yr hair snipped as punishment and nothing else.

 

In army, everyone has to cut botak.

 

In school, student can keep any type of hairstyle so long their hair does not touch the collar. This allows some form of individuality.

 

Teaching a kid or teenagers values, morals is not just the parents responsibility. Singapore education system was form such that values and morals are also taught in school by the teachers. They shared the responsibility with the parents. That why we have moral education from primary sch to sec sch.

 

In this case, if the mother of the student fails to discipline her own kid, the school should help the mother to instil some discipline on the student.

 

I think I am quite traditional in the sense that I believe the onus to discipline the child rests on the family and parents. Anything less would be a failure on their parts.

 

And also, do you think children actually listen during CME lessons? Last i asked my kids they affirmed the fact that its a session for talking with friends or for the teacher to sit down and relax.

 

Morals and values are picked up by example be it at home or at school from exemplary people. Not in a book. Things like courage, humility,sacrifice,friendship. Should we leave violent educators to imprint such behaviour on our children?

[Sabbie]

balls carrier

 

Small Gas Man

[Joseph22]

I dont know why till date you still think the mother is right and the teacher is wrong. This 14 years old had been going to government school since when??? 7 years old i think. 7 years of primary and secondary school education, he still dont know the rules on the acceptable length of the hair??? I dont think this type of case need verbal warning and counselling.

 

There is no mention of the child being professionally counselled at all in the entire article. Many of your arguments are based on the assumption that it has. Furthermore, plain warnings do not have meanings.

 

To put it into perspective, warnings say "Do not do this", counselling tells you "Do not do this, because".

 

Clearly you do not understand the the younger generation needs to have the rationale explained to them these days clearly. For many of them it is not that they are bad but they simply do not know better.

 

Lastly, your last analogy, that is not a punishment and hell what is the teacher doing teaching my kid how to eat?

 

A teacher's job is to educate. Discipline should be instilled by the parents.

 

[Zacxaviqer]

There is no mention of the child being professionally counselled at all in the entire article. Many of your arguments are based on the assumption that it has. Furthermore, plain warnings do not have meanings.

 

To put it into perspective, warnings say "Do not do this", counselling tells you "Do not do this, because".

 

Clearly you do not understand the the younger generation needs to have the rationale explained to them these days clearly. For many of them it is not that they are bad but they simply do not know better.

 

Lastly, your last analogy, that is not a punishment and hell what is the teacher doing teaching my kid how to eat?

 

A teacher's job is to educate. Discipline should be instilled by the parents.

 

 

I would have agree if the subject is a pri sch kids. That where we need to rationalise with him why long hairs is a no no in school. However we are talking abt 14 years old teenage. Still unable to differentiate what is right and wrong? Still need to tell him he needs to be punished because he has violates the school rules? He has been going to school for 8 years and he doesn't know that breaking school rules will mean getting punished?

 

I have a daugther and she is in pri school now. I do rationalise with her when she does things wrongly. However where there's a need for her to be punished, I will gladly allow so. For eating with hand rather than fork in school and a friendly slap on the wrist, I will say well done to the teacher because the teacher helps to teach my daugther the right things to do when I'm not around. Do you want yr kids to only behave when you are around and run havoc when you are not around knowing that no one will be able to discipline him or her?

[Sabbie]

what's the big deal with long hair when teachers are moonlighting, going to LSB, having illicit affairs with their students

[Cerano]

I dont know why till date you still think the mother is right and the teacher is wrong. This 14 years old had been going to government school since when??? 7 years old i think. 7 years of primary and secondary school education, he still dont know the rules on the acceptable length of the hair??? I dont think this type of case need verbal warning and counselling.

 

I think both are wrong.

 

Clearly the mother is a failure in teaching her child. But the school shouldnt lay hands on the kid before checking with the parents too.

 

Like i explained above, these rules are made up by the DM and school. Its like you go to a shop they say once broken considered sold but honestly, do you know by law you're not bound to pay?

 

People make their own laws and moving yard sticks and expect people to follow?

 

My other point is that why wasnt PROFESSIONAL counselling suggested at the indicator that this boy wasnt listening.

[Cerano]

I would have agree if the subject is a pri sch kids. That where we need to rationalise with him why long hairs is a no no in school. However we are talking abt 14 years old teenage. Still unable to differentiate what is right and wrong? Still need to tell him he needs to be punished because he has violates the school rules? He has been going to school for 8 years and he doesn't know that breaking school rules will mean getting punished?

 

I have a daugther and she is in pri school now. I do rationalise with her when she does things wrongly. However where there's a need for her to be punished, I will gladly allow so. For eating with hand rather than fork in school and a friendly slap on the wrist, I will say well done to the teacher because the teacher helps to teach my daugther the right things to do when I'm not around. Do you want yr kids to only behave when you are around and run havoc when you are not around knowing that no one will be able to discipline him or her?

 

Well bro, I never said that the teacher cant discipline them. If there is a problem, come to me. Let me know oh "Mr So and So your child is misbehaving" then If i give the go ahead "You can beat him or reprimand him or whatever"

 

Im talking about standardised punishments like a standardised law across the board thats 1. Not to the teacher's whim and fancy. He shouldnt be punished if the laws are not approved by the education board

 

2nd, im talking about communication between teacher and parent. As a parent i want to be kept in the loop about anything going on.

 

If you suspect a teacher has an affair with my kid tell me. Not till my kid is found to be having an affair with a teacher then u tell me.

 

If he is misbehaving check with me and keep me in the loop. What is so hard about that?

 

I never mentioned anything bout free reign. I am talking bout a clear distinction between first and last resort and a proper unified protocol for handling such issues

Edited January 13, 2012 by Cerano

[Zacxaviqer]

I think I am quite traditional in the sense that I believe the onus to discipline the child rests on the family and parents. Anything less would be a failure on their parts.

 

And also, do you think children actually listen during CME lessons? Last i asked my kids they affirmed the fact that its a session for talking with friends or for the teacher to sit down and relax.

 

Morals and values are picked up by example be it at home or at school from exemplary people. Not in a book. Things like courage, humility,sacrifice,friendship. Should we leave violent educators to imprint such behaviour on our children?

 

Cutting 7cm of hair off the student is violent? To me, that is not violent, it just a disciplinary measures to let the students that breaking the school rules means getting punished.

 

Clearly in this case, the mother is not doing anything to discipline the kid. So what's going to happen if the school can't take any actions against their own student for violating the school rules and the mother is not discipling her kid? As one say, when in rome, do what the romans do. When you are in school, you abide to the school rules and not behave what you deem is fit.

 

Not too sure abt children not listening during CME. That is your assumption. I believe CME does serve it purpose and have benefitted to many young children.

 

[Cerano]

Cutting 7cm of hair off the student is violent? To me, that is not violent, it just a disciplinary measures to let the students that breaking the school rules means getting punished.

 

Clearly in this case, the mother is not doing anything to discipline the kid. So what's going to happen if the school can't take any actions against their own student for violating the school rules and the mother is not discipling her kid? As one say, when in rome, do what the romans do. When you are in school, you abide to the school rules and not behave what you deem is fit.

 

Not too sure abt children not listening during CME. That is your assumption. I believe CME does serve it purpose and have benefitted to many young children.

 

Some children maybe yours and mine take well to it. Some may not. Ive seen alot of gu niangs these days. It all depends on their background, upbringing and social environment. Some children can take such things in their stride some cant.

 

But instead of training robots and "perfect children" we need to account for all of them in our laws. Is this kind of behaviour still applicable?

 

Like i said, the mother is a failure in failing to discipline her child.

 

Law is law and all of that is clear. However, only submit to state law and regulations that are official. Not anything that a DM makes up because he's angry.

 

Lastly, that is not an assumption. Its an anecdotal experience.

 

If you believe that character and morals can be picked up in a book then well I think that says alot

[Zacxaviqer]

People make their own laws and moving yard sticks and expect people to follow?

 

Someone from Holland was caught smoking weed in Singapore. Do you expect Singapore government to let him off because smoking weed in holland is legal.

 

No. When they are in Singapore, you follow Singapore law. Not holland's

[Cerano]

Someone from Holland was caught smoking weed in Singapore. Do you expect Singapore government to let him off because smoking weed in holland is legal.

 

No. When they are in Singapore, you follow Singapore law. Not holland's

 

exactly. i follow the singapore and MOE law. The point is that there is NO law right now here regarding this sort of discipline.

 

 

Everything is left to the DM's discretion

[Jman888]

a bit of conflict on your own statement...

 

you ask for counselling session with the kid, yet you also think they won't listen and discipline come from home.

 

I think I am quite traditional in the sense that I believe the onus to discipline the child rests on the family and parents. Anything less would be a failure on their parts.

 

And also, do you think children actually listen during CME lessons? Last i asked my kids they affirmed the fact that its a session for talking with friends or for the teacher to sit down and relax.

 

Morals and values are picked up by example be it at home or at school from exemplary people. Not in a book. Things like courage, humility,sacrifice,friendship. Should we leave violent educators to imprint such behaviour on our children?

 

[Jman888]

a kid who are rebellion can take it one lah, yes they probably become more rebellion and get themselve into trouble is the school just ignore them or let their mum shouting at the school....

 

sure, it hurt their little crystal heart [rolleyes]

 

Some children maybe yours and mine take well to it. Some may not. Ive seen alot of gu niangs these days. It all depends on their background, upbringing and social environment. Some children can take such things in their stride some cant.

 

But instead of training robots and "perfect children" we need to account for all of them in our laws. Is this kind of behaviour still applicable?

 

Like i said, the mother is a failure in failing to discipline her child.

 

Law is law and all of that is clear. However, only submit to state law and regulations that are official. Not anything that a DM makes up because he's angry.

 

Lastly, that is not an assumption. Its an anecdotal experience.

 

If you believe that character and morals can be picked up in a book then well I think that says alot

 

[Raymondism]

Small Gas Man

 

 

LOL

[Raymondism]

a kid who are rebellion can take it one lah, yes they probably become more rebellion and get themselve into trouble is the school just ignore them or let their mum shouting at the school....

 

sure, it hurt their little crystal heart [rolleyes]

 

 

wow

today u on form