Another pussy in making....

[Sabbie]

  On 1/12/2012 at 3:35 AM, Cerano said:

Bro, clearly this issue is more complex than a simple cutting of hair.

 

This issue brings into question the ethicality of such punishment. Individuality and the limit to which it can be applied? Is personal freedom still considered a core tenet of democracy?

 

Does a minor have any rights?

 

Is the handling of the incident the right way?

 

Does it conform to MOE guidelines?

 

If so, are the MOE guidelines and rulings themselves valid in a time and age unlike the past?

 

IMHO, the school's handling of this issue was terrible. Did the school inform the parent for authorisation before taking action?

 

Furthermore forcing the kid to write confession statements and repentent statements for 2 hours until the teacher song, is that the right course of action?

 

Is there any empirical evidence to suggest that this punishment will lead to lower recurrence rates?

 

Why not counsel the kid?

 

As for the DM side, as a leader as educator, no one can take away your respect except that you lose it yourself through poor handling. Shouting and throwing and screaming doesnt work anymore with children these days.

 

Just like in the army because soldiers are thinking and they need a reason to purpose their actions.

 

No more blind following.

 

This DM is a disgrace to the education sector clearly with his high-handed ideals and inability to set himself on the right and proper course of action. This brings his professionalism into question. Has he even had any training in dealing with kids or is that all from his past career in the army?

 

Dont get me wrong, I dont approve of children with long hair. I make sure i teach my kids that and i screw them big time if need be. That is a failure on the mother's part. However, being able to complain or take legal recourse is her given civil right by the ideals on which this country is founded upon.

 

However, in whatever situation, we always scrutinise the party that has the most authority and hence the most propensity to misuse that power, in this case that is the school.

 

Cheers

 

Like I said, these people take our taxpayer's money as salary but are just simply incompetent....

[Zacxaviqer]

  On 1/12/2012 at 3:35 AM, Cerano said:

Clearly this issue is more complex than a simple cutting of hair.

 

This issue brings into question the ethicality of such punishment. Individuality and the limit to which it can be applied? Is personal freedom still considered a core tenet of democracy?

 

Does a minor have any rights?

 

Is the handling of the incident the right way?

 

Does it conform to MOE guidelines?

 

If so, are the MOE guidelines and rulings themselves valid in a time and age unlike the past?

 

IMHO, the school's handling of this issue was terrible. Did the school inform the parent for authorisation before taking action?

 

Furthermore forcing the kid to write confession statements and repentent statements for 2 hours until the teacher song, is that the right course of action?

 

Is there any empirical evidence to suggest that this punishment will lead to lower recurrence rates?

 

Why not counsel the kid?

 

 

Perhaps they have counselled the kid after the first incident but he still showed no sign of conforming to the school rules. That remains unknown unless we are the parties involved.

 

The school rules and regulation was set and clearly spelled out to students. The student was aware of the rules as he was punished once before and he flaunted the rules again.

 

I believe that teachers should have certain leeway or authority to punish the students especially when the punishment is not causing any physical harm or pain to the students. Does the teacher need to seek approval from their parents to summon a student to stand up in the classes because the student was caught talking in class?

 

Anyway, there are schools out there who also restort to such punishments where length of hair is of concern.

 

It will be interesting to know where MOE stands in this incident...

 

[Cerano]

  On 1/12/2012 at 4:49 AM, Zacxaviqer said:

Perhaps they have counselled the kid after the first incident but he still showed no sign of conforming to the school rules. That remains unknown unless we are the parties involved.

 

The school rules and regulation was set and clearly spelled out to students. The student was aware of the rules as he was punished once before and he flaunted the rules again.

 

I believe that teachers should have certain leeway or authority to punish the students especially when the punishment is not causing any physical harm or pain to the students. Does the teacher need to seek approval from their parents to summon a student to stand up in the classes because the student was caught talking in class?

 

Anyway, there are schools out there who also restort to such punishments where length of hair is of concern.

 

It will be interesting to know where MOE stands in this incident...

 

But this begs the question as why isnt counselling seen as a first option but rather warnings are given then physical action? Why is counselling relegated to that of a last resort or a repatriation effort (eg counselling after caning)?

 

Next just because rules or orders are spelled out clearly doesnt make them legitimate.

 

For example you know shops put up signs that say If you break it you have to pay. But do you realise that legally speaking they cant force you to pay because its their responsibility, as a party of authority to be able to secure their objects that are on display properly.

 

Next why are there conflicting double standards in different schools? What is MOE's official stand on this?

 

Standing up no but as long as any punishment involves a single hair on the student then yes.

 

Do you remember the recent incident of a teacher stalking and raping his student multiple times? The school knew that something was fishy and merely warned the teacher but didnt inform the parents that such an suspicion was realised. Is this proper?

 

Should you not give fair warning to the parents too instead of waiting for things to happen already then say sorry?

Edited January 12, 2012 by Cerano

[Sabbie]

are teachers terrible? only think of earning more money though tuition and molesting students for cheap thrills? sigh....

[Sabbie]

posted in error

Edited January 12, 2012 by Sabbie

[Cerano]

i have many personal friends who are professional educators. there is no doubt in their ability and professionalism. unfortunately there are black sheeps in any trade

[Sabbie]

  On 1/12/2012 at 5:05 AM, Cerano said:

i have many personal friends who are professional educators. there is no doubt in their ability and professionalism. unfortunately there are black sheeps in any trade

 

oh I got a personal fren who is a teacher, he seems abit crappy....

[Zacxaviqer]

  On 1/12/2012 at 3:35 AM, Cerano said:

As for the DM side, as a leader as educator, no one can take away your respect except that you lose it yourself through poor handling. Shouting and throwing and screaming doesnt work anymore with children these days.

 

Just like in the army because soldiers are thinking and they need a reason to purpose their actions.

 

No more blind following.

 

This DM is a disgrace to the education sector clearly with his high-handed ideals and inability to set himself on the right and proper course of action. This brings his professionalism into question. Has he even had any training in dealing with kids or is that all from his past career in the army?

 

Dont get me wrong, I dont approve of children with long hair. I make sure i teach my kids that and i screw them big time if need be. That is a failure on the mother's part. However, being able to complain or take legal recourse is her given civil right by the ideals on which this country is founded upon.

 

However, in whatever situation, we always scrutinise the party that has the most authority and hence the most propensity to misuse that power, in this case that is the school.

 

Cheers

 

Actually I disagree with you.

 

Meting out a punishment such as sniping off a student's hair because it's too long and he is a repeat offender is not harsh at all. Sniping off 7cm of the hair off a student hair as a punishment is how the school instil discipline in the students. Shaving it off, confining and instucting him to run round the track field and doing 100 push up is what the army does to instil discipline in the soldiers. A vast difference in punishment I would think.

 

U think Army will simply snip off yr 7cm of hair as a punishment for keeping yr hair slightly longer than what was set?

 

If the DM is not even allowed to mete out such small punishment just to instil discipline, I wondered what will happen to our soldiers in the years to come. DM or teachers have a role to play in grooming the students into men who can serve, fight and protect our nation when they grow older. If such disciplines are not set out straight in the early stages, our soldiers will be those who hide behind their mummy and expect their mothers to hug them and protect them.

 

[Cerano]

  ' timestamp= said:

4199369[/url]']

Actually I disagree with you.

 

Meting out a punishment such as sniping off a student's hair because it's too long and he is a repeat offender is not harsh at all. Sniping off 7cm of the hair off a student hair as a punishment is how the school instil discipline in the students. Shaving it off, confining and instucting him to run round the track field and doing 100 push up is what the army does to instil discipline in the soldiers. A vast difference in punishment I would think.

 

U think Army will simply snip off yr 7cm of hair as a punishment for keeping yr hair slightly longer than what was set?

 

If the DM is not even allowed to mete out such small punishment just to instil discipline, I wondered what will happen to our soldiers in the years to come. DM or teachers have a role to play in grooming the students into men who can serve, fight and protect our nation when they grow older. If such disciplines are not set out straight in the early stages, our soldiers will be those who hide behind their mummy and expect their mothers to hug them and protect them.

 

BroIm not saying DM is not allowed to do such a thing. Im saying the DM should be allowed only after agreement with the parent otherwise alternative non physical eg suspension punishment should be devised accordingly.

 

Remember we are training citizens in school not soldiers. They'll pick that up in two years. I merely think its the parents' responsibility and perogative to educate the child not the school unless it involves a crime.

Severity of punishment is not linked.

Im not saying that they cant cut off ppl's hairs. Im just saying they cant do it at their whim and fancy

[Cerano]

My question to the school is what if the child suffers ridicule and then becomes withdrawn and have impaired development.

Will the school be accountable for that?

 

Remember laws are not made for only the strong but society as a whole.

 

As such i think moe should set aside specific laws not guidelines to be adhered to

Edited January 12, 2012 by Cerano

[Windwaver]

  On 1/9/2012 at 2:47 AM, RadX said:

Mum upset over school haircut for son

By Teh Jen Lee

The New Paper

The 43-year-old woman, who gave her name only as Madam Yeo, was upset that her 14-year-old son was subjected to a drastic hair cut by a staff member at Springfield Secondary.

 

So upset, in fact, that she called in the police and later complained to the Ministry of Education (MOE).

 

Madam Yeo, a general manager, estimated that at school, about 7cm of his hair was cut off. It had been styled to the side.

 

Her son admitted this was not the first time the school had an issue with his hair being too long.

 

He said: "It was around the middle of last year. The teacher cut off about 1cm of hair as a warning.

 

I wonder what kind of person is this mother trying to teach her son to become. Big shot cos she's GM

[Sabbie]

  On 1/12/2012 at 5:24 AM, Windwaver said:

I wonder what kind of person is this mother trying to teach her son to become. Big shot cos she's GM

 

So if she is not a GM but a MG then makes it all right?

[Zacxaviqer]

  On 1/12/2012 at 4:54 AM, Cerano said:

But this begs the question as why isnt counselling seen as a first option but rather warnings are given then physical action? Why is counselling relegated to that of a last resort or a repatriation effort (eg counselling after caning)?

 

Next just because rules or orders are spelled out clearly doesnt make them legitimate.

 

For example you know shops put up signs that say If you break it you have to pay. But do you realise that legally speaking they cant force you to pay because its their responsibility, as a party of authority to be able to secure their objects that are on display properly.

 

Next why are there conflicting double standards in different schools? What is MOE's official stand on this?

 

Standing up no but as long as any punishment involves a single hair on the student then yes.

 

Do you remember the recent incident of a teacher stalking and raping his student multiple times? The school knew that something was fishy and merely warned the teacher but didnt inform the parents that such an suspicion was realised. Is this proper?

 

Should you not give fair warning to the parents too instead of waiting for things to happen already then say sorry?

 

How do we define counselling? To counsel a student even before any punishment was meted to them? Is that even necessary? We are not talking abt stealing or cheating in class, we are talking abt hair that is too long. beyond what is stipulated by the school rules. Do we counsel the student when the student chatted in classes or do we simply scold them and ask them to stand up as a form of punishment? I

 

Let's take an example here. A student was caught with hair that was 7cm too long. The DM asked the student to go to his office after assembly and talk to him, counsel him, ask him why did he not cut his hair, does he know what is the school rules etc, etc etc.

 

The second time the student was caught, a warning will be given to him. Not to do it again.

 

The third time he commited the mistakes, call the parents and seek permission to snip off 7 cm of the hair from the student.

 

He commited the same offence 3 times before he was physically dealt with. The punishment. Just a snip of his hair.

 

Does a robber have such privileges? Counsel after the first robbery, warning after the second and a slap on the wrist on the 3rd robbery...

 

I would have understand if we are dealing with kid in primary school as they are still not able to differentiate what is right and wrong. In that case, I would agree to counsel the kid, let him know why it is wrong to flaunt the school rules, followed by a stern warning then physical punishment. But the subject in this case is a 14 years old teenager. He should know that rules are rules, just like law is law, once you violates it, u will be punished in court. There is no second chance.

[Sabbie]

  On 1/12/2012 at 5:33 AM, Zacxaviqer said:

How do we define counselling? To counsel a student even before any punishment was meted to them? Is that even necessary? We are not talking abt stealing or cheating in class, we are talking abt hair that is too long. beyond what is stipulated by the school rules. Do we counsel the student when the student chatted in classes or do we simply scold them and ask them to stand up as a form of punishment? I

 

Let's take an example here. A student was caught with hair that was 7cm too long. The DM asked the student to go to his office after assembly and talk to him, counsel him, ask him why did he not cut his hair, does he know what is the school rules etc, etc etc.

 

The second time the student was caught, a warning will be given to him. Not to do it again.

 

The third time he commited the mistakes, call the parents and seek permission to snip off 7 cm of the hair from the student.

 

He commited the same offence 3 times before he was physically dealt with. The punishment. Just a snip of his hair.

 

Does a robber have such privileges? Counsel after the first robbery, warning after the second and a slap on the wrist on the 3rd robbery...

 

I would have understand if we are dealing with kid in primary school as they are still not able to differentiate what is right and wrong. In that case, I would agree to counsel the kid, let him know why it is wrong to flaunt the school rules, followed by a stern warning then physical punishment. But the subject in this case is a 14 years old teenager. He should know that rules are rules, just like law is law, once you violates it, u will be punished in court. There is no second chance.

 

Having long hair and robbery are two very different things, but forgive and forget, we cannot expect too much from civil servants

 

[Zacxaviqer]

  On 1/12/2012 at 5:16 AM, Cerano said:

BroIm not saying DM is not allowed to do such a thing. Im saying the DM should be allowed only after agreement with the parent otherwise alternative non physical eg suspension punishment should be devised accordingly.

 

Remember we are training citizens in school not soldiers. They'll pick that up in two years. I merely think its the parents' responsibility and perogative to educate the child not the school unless it involves a crime.

Severity of punishment is not linked.

Im not saying that they cant cut off ppl's hairs. Im just saying they cant do it at their whim and fancy

 

My take is the DM being the discipline master of the school should have the authority to mete out punishment such as sniping hair where it does not even causes any pain to the student without consulting the parents. If there are so many red tapes that the DM have to cut through just to punish a student and I'm not talking about caning or slaping on the palm of the student, just sniping of hair, then how is the DM going to ensure discipline in school?

 

School is the place where it's help the student to be man with high values, teaches them the right morals and ethics and be socially acceptable in the society and that's includes training them up for their NS. If one don't start early with their kids and only allow physical punishments to dealt to them during NS, it will be a more traumatic experience for them when they go for their national service. They probably cannot stand the much harsher punishments in NS. Sniping off hair is just the tip of the ice berg.

 

Bearing in mind, the student will only spend such regulated lives for another 2 to 4 years before he go for NS. If the school doesn't not prep them to abide the school rules and allows the parents to be the shield for them, it will be a rude introduction to the student when they enlist into NS. In NS, punishments are meted out to soldiers without warning or consultation with parents. In NS, punishments are meted when it wasn't even your fault. In NS, punishment are meted out with pains and scars.

 

 

[Zacxaviqer]

  On 1/12/2012 at 5:42 AM, Sabbie said:

Having long hair and robbery are two very different things, but forgive and forget, we cannot expect too much from civil servants

 

 

That's why the punishment for long hair is just to snip it off while the punishment for robbery is a jail term but the moral of the story is there. We should not give too much leeway to pple who violates the rules. Rules are set for pple to abide with. Given too much leeway will result in pple abusing the rules.

[Sabbie]

  On 1/12/2012 at 5:59 AM, Zacxaviqer said:

That's why the punishment for long hair is just to snip it off while the punishment for robbery is a jail term but the moral of the story is there. We should not give too much leeway to pple who violates the rules. Rules are set for pple to abide with. Given too much leeway will result in pple abusing the rules.

 

I see your point, true, kinda agree with you, if too soft no one will care

[Gadgeter]

  On 1/10/2012 at 10:56 PM, RadX said:

knn...u see pussy u excited ah [laugh]

 

 

how u bro??? eh arrange MU leh, we coming 10 yrs aldy [bounce2]

 

 

Someone have just suggested that to me yesterday.

Parking is an issue at Bishan these days... where else?