Another pussy in making....

[Raymondism]

honestly... i din read what u write...

 

our point is: the boy or teenager is a pussy... wanna challenge the rules but dun wan to face the music...

 

personally i m not interested to discuss whether the school is right...

if the school says sporting long hair gets death penalty.. and a boy decides to keep long hair... hang him...

 

 

I think it's ridiculous that teacher are not even allowed to snip a student's hair when the student has obviously violates the school rules. We are not talking about beating or caning the students which will causes some some pain to them, we are talking about cutting their hair for god sake. If teachers are not even allowed to do that in school, How do you expect the teachers to discipline the students?

 

First of all, this is not the first time the student has been caught flaunting the school rules for long hair. He has been caught and punished before. (a cm cut off his hair). Therefore the student should know that if his hair is longer than a certain length, it will be subjected to cut from the DM. Therefore, what is so traumatising for him that his hair was cut this time round?

 

Secondly, he is in Sec 2, therefore he is not new in the school and therefore should know the rules by now having studied in the sec sch for a year. He knew the rules and yet he tried to exploit it. Is this an act of defiant from the student? Hence in this case, shouldn't the DM do something more drastic to him such as cutting his hair to serve as a punishment for him or simply just gives him some demert points or send him to detention classes? In any case, I don't think giving demerit points or sending the student to detention will work for all students, especially those who are not result orientated ones. They probably will not feel the punishment at all.

 

Thirdly, I believe in order to discipline kids or teenages for this instance, a harsh enough punishments are needed so that they will learn and not repeat the mistakes again. Sniping off his hair is already a mild punishment to me. Back in my times, they probably will slap you first before cutting the hair for repeat offender. However of course, taking into considerations of the current society that the children live in, slapping is a no-no but hair cutting should be continued so that the students will etched it in their mind and will not repeat the same mistakes again.

 

In this instance, the student is too pampered by the mother, this will not be good for the DM in the sec sch. Will other students still have fears on the DM? Will the DM still able to command respect from the other students after this fisaco? Or will they laughed and jeered at the DM because what he did was publicise and blow out of proportion by the media? Imagine what will happens when the same student was sported with long hair by the DM, what will the DM do? Call the mother to complain which will probably be useless because some form of prejudices or impression has been formed by the mother on the DM, or punished the student and risked to be entangled in another media fiasco?

 

I shared an incident to all. 2 kids were fighting with 1 another. One of the kids' father stopped the fight and scolded his own kid. The other kid who started the fight was standing at a side and continue to make snide remarks while the father was disciplining his own kid. The father turn arnd and told the other kid to keep quiet (this father is the god-father of the second kid btw). The other kid ignore his godfather and continue to talk and shout, the father grew angrier and shouted at him but the second remain defiant and continue to bicker with his godfather. In the end, the father or the god father of the second kid flares up and scream at the second kid (also his godson) until someone pulls him away from the second kid. The second kid cried after been screamed at and his biological father who watching the whole episode from a close distance decided to walk over to his son (second kid) and hugged him and console him. His real father did not even reprimand his own son for showing disrepect to his god father. Because of this, the father of the first kid scolded his own kid even more and starting hitting him and blaming him for starting the whole fiasco although the first kid was not at fault to begin with. However because the second kid was so pampered, everybody in the family did not scold or punished the second kid for starting the fight and showing disrepect to his godfather, instead everyone in the family blamed the father who scolded the second kid because he is not his real father, just his godfather.

 

Who won the battle in the end? The second kid who started the fight and showing disrespect to the god father or the father who just want to discipline both kids for fighting? Obviously the second kid was the clear winner as everyone in the family sided with him, did not punish him and even consoled him after he was screamed at. In the end, the grandmother of the second kid scolded the father of the first kid infront of everybody for screaming at her precious grandson.

 

Going back to the student and the DM, who won the battle? Obviously the student has won because his mother defended his son so stoutly and even make it to the media and in the end, the DM will get the flak from MOE or the principal for bringing these bad publicity to the school... I really do pity the DM who just want to instill some discipline to his students and the punishment by no mean a fierce and uncompromising one.

 

 

By the way, I wonder what was the focus when The New Paper publish this article. Are they trying to shame the mother for being so defensive towards her own son or shame the school for meted out such harsh punishment to their students? I guess it is more of the former than the latter. Don't you agree?

 

[Darryn]

honestly... i din read what u write...

 

our point is: the boy or teenager is a pussy... wanna challenge the rules but dun wan to face the music...

 

personally i m not interested to discuss whether the school is right...

if the school says sporting long hair gets death penalty.. and a boy decides to keep long hair... hang him...

 

I gotta agree with this thought -

 

Much as I think the rule itself is stupid, if you wanna break the rule you face the consequences.

[Raymondism]

I gotta agree with this thought -

 

Much as I think the rule itself is stupid, if you wanna break the rule you face the consequences.

 

i just wanna say that i m not advocating iron fist or terrorizing the kids...

KIDS must know one thing... dun challenge the rules or law....

 

[Cerano]

i have no issues with the rules.

 

i have issues with double standards and people who make their OWN rules.

 

Whether the boy or mother is right or wrong is inconsequential to me, I am only concerned by the poor and improper handling by the school

[Raymondism]

i have no issues with the rules.

 

i have issues with double standards and people who make their OWN rules.

 

Whether the boy or mother is right or wrong is inconsequential to me, I am only concerned by the poor and improper handling by the school

 

u might want to read the thread topic...

[Gz0707]

Gadgeter,

 

long time no see. still same place? or move liao.

[Cerano]

How do we define counselling? To counsel a student even before any punishment was meted to them? Is that even necessary? We are not talking abt stealing or cheating in class, we are talking abt hair that is too long. beyond what is stipulated by the school rules. Do we counsel the student when the student chatted in classes or do we simply scold them and ask them to stand up as a form of punishment? I

 

Let's take an example here. A student was caught with hair that was 7cm too long. The DM asked the student to go to his office after assembly and talk to him, counsel him, ask him why did he not cut his hair, does he know what is the school rules etc, etc etc.

 

The second time the student was caught, a warning will be given to him. Not to do it again.

 

The third time he commited the mistakes, call the parents and seek permission to snip off 7 cm of the hair from the student.

 

He commited the same offence 3 times before he was physically dealt with. The punishment. Just a snip of his hair.

 

Does a robber have such privileges? Counsel after the first robbery, warning after the second and a slap on the wrist on the 3rd robbery...

 

I would have understand if we are dealing with kid in primary school as they are still not able to differentiate what is right and wrong. In that case, I would agree to counsel the kid, let him know why it is wrong to flaunt the school rules, followed by a stern warning then physical punishment. But the subject in this case is a 14 years old teenager. He should know that rules are rules, just like law is law, once you violates it, u will be punished in court. There is no second chance.

 

Counselling is not the DM talking to the kid. Counselling means a sit down discussion with a proper expert trained in child psychology (schools all have at least one). The boy doesnt understand whats the problem with long hair. He thinks it is cool it is comfortable.

 

Talking in class similarly is not a crime.

 

Do you think blind punishment would work?

 

Let me ask you la teacher make u stand up so many times you still stop talking to your friends? No right. Instinctive responses outweight logical ones at many times.

 

The DM is not a professional. That is a stern talk down and possibly scolding and intimidation "if you dont cut your hair you watch out" Do you think that will sit well with rebellious teenagers?

 

I never said that it has to be a wrist slap. They can by all means suspend the child or call up the parents.

 

 

I am simply speaking from the view point of a parent if you want to touch a hair on my child, ask for my permission first. I paid for him to go to school. I brought him into this world. Anything funny going on i deserve to be the first person to know. Dont wait until something happens then leave me to pick up the pieces.

 

What is so hard about a single phone call?

 

I want to stress that this is not a crime. If my kid steals from the kopi aunty or classmate by all means hand him to the police. But if you want to punish him because you're in a foul mood than im sorry my answer is no.

 

Remember we must distinguish between illegal/criminal activities (eg gangsterism) and simple grooming issues

Edited January 12, 2012 by Cerano

[Cerano]

u might want to read the thread topic...

 

read it la bro. thats why i never comment on whether the kid is a pussy or not. i am talking bout the protocols set in schools and professionalism required of the teaching service and admin staff in school.

[Raymondism]

read it la bro. thats why i never comment on whether the kid is a pussy or not. i am talking bout the protocols set in schools and professionalism required of the teaching service and admin staff in school.

 

LOL the point is we are talking abt the boy being a pussy...

 

[Cerano]

My take is the DM being the discipline master of the school should have the authority to mete out punishment such as sniping hair where it does not even causes any pain to the student without consulting the parents. If there are so many red tapes that the DM have to cut through just to punish a student and I'm not talking about caning or slaping on the palm of the student, just sniping of hair, then how is the DM going to ensure discipline in school?

 

School is the place where it's help the student to be man with high values, teaches them the right morals and ethics and be socially acceptable in the society and that's includes training them up for their NS. If one don't start early with their kids and only allow physical punishments to dealt to them during NS, it will be a more traumatic experience for them when they go for their national service. They probably cannot stand the much harsher punishments in NS. Sniping off hair is just the tip of the ice berg.

 

Bearing in mind, the student will only spend such regulated lives for another 2 to 4 years before he go for NS. If the school doesn't not prep them to abide the school rules and allows the parents to be the shield for them, it will be a rude introduction to the student when they enlist into NS. In NS, punishments are meted out to soldiers without warning or consultation with parents. In NS, punishments are meted when it wasn't even your fault. In NS, punishment are meted out with pains and scars.

 

 

Discipline can be ensured in many ways. We are not running an army camp or concentration camp. We dont need physical punishment or acts to convince people that laws are being enforced.

 

Alot of parents like to throw to the school to teach their kids all about values and morals which I think is utter bull on the parent's part. This is the parent's responsibility not the school's.

 

Also, cutting off abit of hair isnt as simple as it sounds. Why else do you think people complain about going botak in tekong.

 

Because their hair carries their individuality. its as if telling them what to wear is not enough they want to control how people think, how people react, what people eat in total uniformity.

 

Also I am not saying it happens to everyone. For people like me the shorter the better more cooling.

 

This is NOT NS. This is school. Dont mix up the two. We have civilian law and military law. Both of which are separate.

[Cerano]

LOL the point is we are talking abt the boy being a pussy...

 

ok la but im saying that pussy or not us parents have the right to be told about every single funny occurance happening in school and should be told before the school takes any action no matter how minor.

 

Maybe today the DM cut 7cm, what if tomorrow they set a precedent cutting off 10cm and so forth.

 

Also my other grouse is the lack of professionalism and standardisation of protocol within schools. What may be acceptable in one may not be acceptable in another. This is ridiculous since the laws become roving variable targets for the DMs to set.

[Hondacub777]

Now I know why not alot of locals dun want to take up teaching liao.

Coz some parents are ridiculous!They dun respect the school rules and expect the school authorities to apologize to them when in fact their own kids break the rules in the first place.

What happened if repeated counselling dun work?Anyway,I already felt nowadays school rules are so much lenient liao and pple start taking advantage on it.Like what some bros mentioned,the rules are there to follow! U break it,u muz accept the farking punishment,period

[Cerano]

I said dont work then suspend or expel.

 

And i didnt say anything bout wanting an apology. I only want the standard protocol to be followed.

 

Just like that recent lta case of fining while in the condo carpark

Accept the punishment yes but it must be the MOE sanctioned punishment not some tom dick or harry punishment that the DM decides or ill go to war with him

 

That said i expect every civil servant to have a standard of professionalism and care in his duty

 

Remember circumstances may be subjective but right and wrong is not.

No matter the case, a 50y.o should be more mature and better able to discern between good and bad.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2012 by Cerano

[KARTer]

Now I know why not alot of locals dun want to take up teaching liao.

Coz some parents are ridiculous!They dun respect the school rules and expect the school authorities to apologize to them when in fact their own kids break the rules in the first place.

What happened if repeated counselling dun work?Anyway,I already felt nowadays school rules are so much lenient liao and pple start taking advantage on it.Like what some bros mentioned,the rules are there to follow! U break it,u muz accept the farking punishment,period

i think the communication betw sch and parents are important in the interest of educating the kids. over-protective parents and bo-chup/too-strict teachers are equally 'harmful' to the development of the kids

 

Meanwhile, sometime even between father and mother they also cant agree on the methods of disciplining their kids.

[KARTer]

Someone have just suggested that to me yesterday.

Parking is an issue at Bishan these days... where else?

MCF MU can use public transport to attend?

[Mazdaowner]

Ello, ello Ah Sar.....what talking you? Even HERE got above 50 still act like a farking idiot,

don't expect AGE to be a sign of maturity, go onto the roads, 50yrs and above, acting like kids

behind the wheel, jousting, not giving way. Maturity is not age, it's in the person and the mind.

:D

 

BTW, school is JUST an institution, just like any other, with it's set of rules.

So SAF bring rile, steal live round, counsel first, second time, also counsel, third time, kill someone,

then, well.....see how lor? I donno about you, a lot of us here were brought up with corporal

punishment being metered out, and all of us have made it in our lives, all know how to associate PAIN with

wrong. It was thru such so called trauma that we survive thru, and made us what we are today.

 

Ello again Ah Sar.....diamonds also go trauma. And the best stones with no black spots...Go figure.

 

No matter the case, a 50y.o should be more mature and better able to discern between good and bad.

 

[RadX]

eh a lot of those who din go thru corporal punishment also made it with their lives......

 

 

 

they lost it.... [laugh] and good riddanc ei say [:p]

[Sabbie]

I agree with big boss cerano on this