Elite says: Major disruption in 24 years is understandable

[Lightbringer]

of course not exactly the same thing.

nothing is exactly the same thing except for the same thing but the basis is definitely there.

 

no schedule can guarantee that it will not breakdown nor be "attacked"

 

So it is also understandable and acceptable for nuclear reactors operating for over half a century, according to your so-called logic?

 

Ditto for aircrafts which have been flying for multiple decades?

 

It is extremely simplistic to compare the maintenance of a car to the maintenance of a critical system, and also typical coming from a layman with no understanding of engineering or mechanic principles.

 

There are multiple fail-safes, redundancies and back-ups that can and often do recover a mechanical system from a critical failure. And of course for a critical failure to happen, exceptional circumstances such as a tsunami or 9.0 scale earthquake which cannot be reasonably planned for and modeled must have happened. This is the basic principle behind the design and implementation of advanced infrastructure and systems. Examples abound int he real world - power generation, electronic banking systems, air transportation and yes, even rail transport systems. When a critical and systematic failure occurs, it can usually be narrowed down to any combination of the following three factors:

 

1) Poor system design, be it engineering or conceptual flaws;

2) Inadequate maintenance and redundancies;

3) Exceptional circumstances (major natural disasters);

 

You are correct, we should discuss on the basis of logic.

 

However, your opinion is ill-informed and naive to say the least.

 

And also a clear illustration why desk jockeys with no engineering or operational experience should be parachuted to the top of a company that operates or provides critical public services and infrastructure.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Lightbringer

[Lightbringer]

All people know MRT breakdowns once in a very blue moon is unavoidable and understandable. The great backfire from public is because all kinds of management are not properly in place yet, but

 

1) price hike;

2) top management is having great bonus and;

3) self-declared "world-class transport system".

 

Of course, with the above facts, most people mind-set have very high expectation from the transport system. Self-humiliation now.

 

The transport system must go through a different level of stress test from now onward, only then this is called track record.

 

Not really true. Just because there are many worse examples out there in the world doesn't means that we have to hold ourselves to their low and probably non-existent standards.

 

Instead we should continue pushing and striving to the limit because this is the only way true progress and excellence can be achieved.

 

It is pointless and indulgent to participate in "feel-good" exercises by comparing our rail system to others which are poorly designed and inefficiently run, as well as being reflective of mental laziness. Instead we should look towards much older and complex rail systems such as those in Japan which have never experienced a system-wide paralysis and critical failure on such a large scale before, and learn from this painful experience.

 

And speaking from experience, the best way (and often the only way) to force policy makers to sit up, take notice and really devote resources towards thinking of real solutions to real problems and improving on the policies, processes, and infrastructure already in place, is the heat of public anger breathing down their very necks.

 

Do we really want to wait for a tragedy to happen before we sit up and take notice?

[Lightbringer]

I think the poster fails to understand the difference between the cause of the train disruptions.

 

If a train in Japan is disrupted because of weather like typhoon or tsunami etc, I don't think anyone will complain.

 

In Spain where people strike to fight for better work conditions and renumeration, people understand and won't complain.

 

But if a train service was disrupted because proper checks and maintenance was not carried out then people complaining is understandable.

 

And this once in 24 years is sheer nonsense.

 

I have driven without accident for 24 years and if I failed to have my brakes checked and it failed and I knocked down Samson Gurly Lee and he broke his leg, will he say to me

 

Its ok since you only have an accident every 24 years?

 

 

Spot on as usual, in your darkly humorous manner.

 

[Twnll]

A major disruption in 24 years is understandable - and forgivable

 

AS A Singaporean who has spent a good part of the past 10 years in Japan, and now in Spain, let me offer a different perspective to last week's train disruptions in Singapore ('Commuters delayed as Circle Line breaks down', last Thursday; 'MRT breakdown chaos', last Friday; 'PM orders inquiry as trains break down again', Sun-day) .

 

Japan has one of the most efficient transport systems in the world, yet it is also prone to the occasional disruption, whether it is caused technically or for other reasons.

 

In Barcelona where I live, the transport system is vulnerable to workers' strikes, which sometimes mean disrupted service for long periods.

 

Yet in both places, the public react calmly and do not point fingers at their government in anger.

 

By contrast, I read my friends in Singapore who rant online about operators, the Ministry of Transport and even the minister.

 

This reflects a population pampered by an efficient society who have grown intolerant.

 

A major breakdown in 24 years of operation is understandable - and forgivable.

 

We can improve the current systems by revising ways of communication so commuters can be better informed in an emergency.

 

For example, when a disruption occurs in the train network in Japan, information about the incident is immediately available on the website of the company, various news websites and a banner is displayed on Japanese tele-vision channels. This allows affected passengers to check the latest information online with their mobile phones, and lets them consider alternative routes before they travel.

 

This will allow us to maintain our world-class transport reputation.

 

Samson Guanglin Lee

 

Barcelona, Spain

 

 

 

ST damn good in finding a-----es like this chap to come in at the right time to push all the right buttons. I say, ST world's best newspaper!

[Throttle2]

So it is also understandable and acceptable for nuclear reactors operating for over half a century, according to your so-called logic?

 

Ditto for aircrafts which have been flying for multiple decades?

 

It is extremely simplistic to compare the maintenance of a car to the maintenance of a critical system, and also typical coming from a layman with no understanding of engineering or mechanic principles.

 

There are multiple fail-safes, redundancies and back-ups that can and often do recover a mechanical system from a critical failure. And of course for a critical failure to happen, exceptional circumstances such as a tsunami or 9.0 scale earthquake which cannot be reasonably planned for and modeled must have happened. This is the basic principle behind the design and implementation of advanced infrastructure and systems. Examples abound int he real world - power generation, electronic banking systems, air transportation and yes, even rail transport systems. When a critical and systematic failure occurs, it can usually be narrowed down to any combination of the following three factors:

 

1) Poor system design, be it engineering or conceptual flaws;

2) Inadequate maintenance and redundancies;

3) Exceptional circumstances (major natural disasters);

 

You are correct, we should discuss on the basis of logic.

 

However, your opinion is ill-informed and naive to say the least.

 

And also a clear illustration why desk jockeys with no engineering or operational experience should be parachuted to the top of a company that operates or provides critical public services and infrastructure.

 

i dont think you even know what my opinion is.

 

just speaking for myself, understandable doesnt necessarily mean acceptable

 

as i am simple, ii quote another simple example so you may (hopefully)see my point.

 

a man commits a crime becos he needed the money to save his grandmother who is in urgent need of an operation. i would say, it's understandable why he would have done so, but doesnt mean that it's acceptable that he does it.

 

thats said, i am and will never be as articulate and detailed as you are well known to be, in your famous nitpicking style of debating. that of which, i have personally experienced.

 

so go ahead nitpick. why not even check my typo errors or punctuation mistakes, along the way, Lightbringer.

 

and what a nice eloquent way of insulting me that i am not worth my value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Speedsun]

Not really true. Just because there are many worse examples out there in the world doesn't means that we have to hold ourselves to their low and probably non-existent standards.

 

Instead we should continue pushing and striving to the limit because this is the only way true progress and excellence can be achieved.

 

It is pointless and indulgent to participate in "feel-good" exercises by comparing our rail system to others which are poorly designed and inefficiently run, as well as being reflective of mental laziness. Instead we should look towards much older and complex rail systems such as those in Japan which have never experienced a system-wide paralysis and critical failure on such a large scale before, and learn from this painful experience.

 

And speaking from experience, the best way (and often the only way) to force policy makers to sit up, take notice and really devote resources towards thinking of real solutions to real problems and improving on the policies, processes, and infrastructure already in place, is the heat of public anger breathing down their very necks.

 

Do we really want to wait for a tragedy to happen before we sit up and take notice?

 

My point is not to appear arrogant rather be more humble. Let others to compliment not self-declared. There is never ending to improve to provide good service.

[Lightbringer]

I sense angst in many people's opinions and it is angst from the lowest level caused by envy and jealousy.

 

I sense contempt, condescension and a know-it-all mentality in your opinion.

 

Seriously, most of us get it - you're filthy rich, own multiple rich cars and luxury watches, smoke cigars and what-not.

 

Your not-so-subtle manner of constantly harping on yourself being a "table-wiper" and comparing taxable income with other individuals reminds me of people who are dying inside to show off but try to cover it up in lame-ass attempts at appearing humble. Fake humility is the worst hypocrisy of all, and you can probably drop the act. And you might think that people secretly envy your wealth and material possessions - so typical of those with little to offer beside their wealth.

 

But it's probably best for yourself to take your condescension and snobbish attitude, and ram it up your sorry ass so nobody ever have to suffer the sight or smell of it, because being rich doesn't gives you the right to dismiss and look down on the opinions and thoughts of others - opinions which actually makes more sense than your half-assed attempts at comparing the maintenance of a national rail transport system to the maintenance of a car.

 

 

[Without_a_car]

The sheer size of the Japan network is mind boggling. The Shinkansen, also known as the "Bullet Train", is a network of high-speed railway lines in Japan operated by four Japan Railways Group companies. Starting with the Tōkaidō Shinkansen in 1964,[1] the network has expanded to currently consist of 2,387.7 km, lines with maximum speeds of 240

[Lightbringer]

i dont think you even know what my opinion is.

 

just speaking for myself, understandable doesnt necessarily mean acceptable

 

as i am simple, ii quote another simple example so you may (hopefully)see my point.

 

a man commits a crime becos he needed the money to save his grandmother who is in urgent need of an operation. i would say, it's understandable why he would have done so, but doesnt mean that it's acceptable that he does it.

 

thats said, i am and will never be as articulate and detailed as you are well known to be, in your famous nitpicking style of debating. that of which, i have personally experienced.

 

so go ahead nitpick. why not even check my typo errors or punctuation mistakes, along the way, Lightbringer.

 

and what a nice eloquent way of insulting me that i am not worth my value.

 

Let me put it bluntly to you then - you have little to no knowledge of engineering principles and how critical systems are designed, built and then maintained on a regular schedule to ensure that it never ever fails due to mechanical error or a flawed design. After that, such critical systems will typically have multiple layers of fail-safes and redundancies to ensure that if there is a system failure due to human error or exceptional circumstances, said system will be able to be recovered and restored in a timely manner.

 

Therefore it is not understandable nor acceptable for a national rail transport system to encounter a wide-spread and critical system failure which shut down most of the rail transport network for an extended period of time. Not when it is constantly said that the best standards and best processes and best systems are in place, headed by the best people available who are paid the highest salaries to ensure infallibility.

 

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

 

I would say that it is you instead who is being defensive and nitpicking by harping on the difference between understandable and acceptable. This is not a school-boy discussion and it is not necessary to discuss nor elaborate on basic definitions of standard English words.

 

And just because I find your opinion uninformed and flawed doesn't means I don't understand it. I simply find it uninformed and flawed. Good enough for you?

 

Just because you are unable to refute certain basic facts which I have laid out in a concise manner does not means I'm nitpicking. How about you address these facts instead of whining about how I'm "nitpicking", eh?

[Speedsun]

The sheer size of the Japan network is mind boggling. The Shinkansen, also known as the "Bullet Train", is a network of high-speed railway lines in Japan operated by four Japan Railways Group companies. Starting with the Tōkaidō Shinkansen in 1964,[1] the network has expanded to currently consist of 2,387.7 km, lines with maximum speeds of 240

[Throttle2]

I sense contempt, condescension and a know-it-all mentality in your opinion.

 

Seriously, most of us get it - you're filthy rich, own multiple rich cars and luxury watches, smoke cigars and what-not.

 

Your not-so-subtle manner of constantly harping on yourself being a "table-wiper" and comparing taxable income with other individuals reminds me of people who are dying inside to show off but try to cover it up in lame-ass attempts at appearing humble. Fake humility is the worst hypocrisy of all, and you can probably drop the act. And you might think that people secretly envy your wealth and material possessions - so typical of those with little to offer beside their wealth.

 

But it's probably best for yourself to take your condescension and snobbish attitude, and ram it up your sorry ass so nobody ever have to suffer the sight or smell of it, because being rich doesn't gives you the right to dismiss and look down on the opinions and thoughts of others - opinions which actually makes more sense than your half-assed attempts at comparing the maintenance of a national rail transport system to the maintenance of a car.

 

yup go ahead , attack me personally, whats new.

 

fake humility?

i am not humble, said it umpteen times.

 

i say it like it is, sometimes a bit quick but dont coat sugary stuff.

often could be seen as insensitive.

those who cant accept , naturally gets choked.

 

i will take my ass anywhere i want to take it.

so you can save your breath or continue your insults.

 

whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ace]

with the new line coming aboard, it going to be from complex to super complex and does that imply more breakdown when more line become operational?

[Lightbringer]

How is the issue of our leaders having obscenely high pay from our money, do fark all, make honest mistakes, etc, be a form on envy or jealousy?

 

 

That's because this very chap seems to be living under the constant impression that the whole world envies him because of his wealth and material possessions, which he has been not-so-subtly alluding to and dropping "hints" all over the forum. The "I'm a poor table wiper lah" act takes the cake because it reminds me so much of the playground environment.

 

In Singlish, this guy think he is extremely the "sat", thinks everybody see him as very "sat-sat", and hence every negative opinion or feedback can be boiled down to envy or jealousy.

[Speedsun]

with the new line coming aboard, it going to be from complex to super complex and does that imply more breakdown when more line become operational?

 

Well, I cannot answer you now, let me apply for a post in SMRT top management team first.

[Without_a_car]

They already said ours is also quite complex now.

 

They are saying the Japanese network is less complex than the Singapore one?

[Lightbringer]

yup go ahead , attack me personally, whats new.

 

fake humility?

i am not humble, said it umpteen times.

 

i say it like it is, sometimes a bit quick but dont coat sugary stuff.

often could be seen as insensitive.

those who cant accept , naturally gets choked.

 

i will take my ass anywhere i want to take it.

so you can save your breath or continue your insults.

 

whatever.

 

Good. So you admit that you are unable to refute the basic facts that I have laid out to you previously then? You can kindly take your envy and jealousy somewhere else then

 

What's new indeed. Some fool posts utter b-------t, is exposed when basic facts are laid out at his feet, is unable to defend his views or opinions with real facts, and then (hopefully) slinks away from the discussion.

 

"Dude", if you want to be condescending and deliver certain ill-informed opinions and views to others in contempt, as if you know it all and others are whining just because they are "envious" and "jealous" - well you don't really expect roses and champagne do you?

 

You are humble indeed - a few looks at your posts talking about how "cheep" this watch or that car or so-and-so property is, and anybody with half a brain can tell you are no different from the typical flashy joe out there who's dying to show the world how rich he is but trying very hard to keep it inside him.

 

[Speedsun]

They are saying the Japanese network is less complex than the Singapore one?

 

Not sure whether they said that. I only know some belong to 60.1% always compared this crisis with other countries' disasters then used it an excuse that our little MRT crisis is acceptable and understandable. We are spoilt, please don't complain and we are already very fortunate..

[Throttle2]

Good. So you admit that you are unable to refute the basic facts that I have laid out to you previously then? You can kindly take your envy and jealousy somewhere else then

 

What's new indeed. Some fool posts utter b-------t, is exposed when basic facts are laid out at his feet, is unable to defend his views or opinions with real facts, and then (hopefully) slinks away from the discussion.

 

"Dude", if you want to be condescending and deliver certain ill-informed opinions and views to others in contempt, as if you know it all and others are whining just because they are "envious" and "jealous" - well you don't really expect roses and champagne do you?

 

You are humble indeed - a few looks at your posts talking about how "cheep" this watch or that car or so-and-so property is, and anybody with half a brain can tell you are no different from the typical flashy joe out there who's dying to show the world how rich he is but trying very hard to keep it inside him.

 

yeah, well said.

 

oops sorry forget to add a *clap*

 

 

Edited December 21, 2011 by Throttle2