China

[Wishcumstrue]

Now this is invention. At least it doesnt appear to be a latant copy of the Predator/Global Hawk.

Wings increase efficiency up to 4-6% so im not surprised by the range. However this appears to have 2 hard points under each wing.

Is it capable of any payload?

 

"翔龙" design is towards endurance and hi-altitude flight (> 60,000 ft). So ext payload is a no-no.

 

The "hard points", I guess are probably vertical connecting "fins" between the main-wing and the tail - A Box-wing configuration.

 

If you look even closer in this hi-res shot under the plane, there are blue-pyramids like cones around it.

These are for radiation cross-section test like those used in Anechoic chambers.

A clear indication that the development has gone into electromagnetic testing stage.

That means there are electronic-instrumentation installed in this test bed.

 

Source:

Innovative New Chinese UAV Emerges- Aviation Week

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_6c09e06a0100vglx.html?tj=1 (Chinese)

http://www.afwing.com/intro/china_uav/china_uav-1.htm (Chinese)

http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot.com/2...itude-long.html (English)

 

[Wishcumstrue]

Remembered your early thread on their Jian -10 or -15 stealth jet & other than the leading edges showing some similarity with their American counterparts the rest of the fuselage look quite different...

yes, we are aviation buff here to share.

Just bump my nearly-11-months old J-20 thread with a video flight just last month @ http://www.mycarforum.com/index.php?showto...t&p=4152826

 

Enjoy!

 

[Zyrofillica]

Depend or don't depend ... nobody owe you a living, and nobody else speaks Singlish other than about 2 million people in this world. Neither Americans or Chinese or British will give you a second thought - our forefathers learnt the cold harsh way. Think first before talking about condemning something or someone too quickly.

 

sorry condemn is too harsh a word. but just because we are chinese doesnt mean we must love china. We have our own little identity now, u think any chinese gives a F about singapore? They dun even give a F about each other.

[Cerano]

I was actually referring to the underside of the wings. There seem to be 2 hardpoints on each. Could these be used for a modular payload eg. LANTIRN or External Synthetic Aperture Radars?

 

However, your picture of such a configuration is interesting, I havnt seen any airframe with such a configuration before.

[Cerano]

ok so how is your favourite USA going to do about this?

 

gifting one of their advanced technologies to a increasingly hostile country

 

what an embarrassing moment for the US intelligence

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle...vGgO_story.html

 

Honestly it is unlikely that the Iranians shot it out of the sky. It was probably a malfunction which led it being uncontrollable by pilots.

 

Luckily, there is an article detailing how the systems onboard were designed with the belief that one would eventually be shot down or taken ahold of by hostile states in the course of duty and as such had been designed without the most cutting edge technological secrets.

 

Secondly, you should know how the airframe does not count for much. Its the avionics that are and they probably are encrypted in ways that we cannot imagine so i cannot expect Iran to glean much information from this wreck

[Cerano]

On the contrary, the other nations outside of US, are pretty innovative when comes to cutting-edge implementations. Copying/spying/imitations/espionage had been part of Great Power hidden warfare for years.

e.g:

 

We had the US getting Nazi German scientist for their rocket technology in 1945

We had US stealing UK's supersonic research secrets before X1's record-breaking flight in 1946

We had UK/US copying Nazi Germans's turbojet design from their Me262.

We had Russians copying UK's jet engine before putting their variant into Mig-15.

And it goes on and on...

 

Problem is we only get to hear the "good-guys" stories as we only allow our self to be exposed one-language publications and writings.

 

That can be a BIG handicap.

 

And in China's case, with over tens-of-thousands of engineering graduates and with Hunger to try, my bet is with PRC.

 

Having the best minds doesn't always yield real-world dividend when one is afraid to try.

 

I have no doubt that the Chinese have every potential to outrun the US. But at the operating budget they have now, there is only so much that they can do.

 

Also, they certainly lack a mature defence ecosystem with a proper system of accountancy whereas the US, has through so many years of co-development, designed an efficient procurement system between its contractors and the armed services.

 

Lastly, well most of the world's famous contractors are American themselves

 

Raytheon, Lockheed, GE,GD,P&W etc

 

Evidently from the evidence presented before, the Americans are hardly the ones doing the stealing today whereas the same cant be said for the Chinese

[Cerano]

Depend or don't depend ... nobody owe you a living, and nobody else speaks Singlish other than about 2 million people in this world. Neither Americans or Chinese or British will give you a second thought - our forefathers learnt the cold harsh way. Think first before talking about condemning something or someone too quickly.

 

You're right in this. No one owes us a living and we can only depend on ourselves.

 

Condemnation and trust are two very separate items.

 

At the end of the day, like you said we can only rely on ourselves

[Wishcumstrue]

Like I had said, many of us only get to hear stories from the the "good-guys" rather then listening to the alternative opinions.

Below are some alternatives:

 

I have no doubt that the Chinese have every potential to outrun the US. But at the operating budget they have now, there is only so much that they can do.

You mean China can only do so much because they have smaller budget than the US? Who has the ca$h now?

How does that translate to actual military development rate that we have observed between China and US? Any links/ref?

 

Also, they certainly lack a mature defence ecosystem with a proper system of accountancy whereas the US, has through so many years of co-development, designed an efficient procurement system between its contractors and the armed services.

US defense contractors using counter-field components made for US military.

Here is the report by U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE in 2011.

Source: http://www.bis.doc.gov/defenseindustrialba...nics_report.pdf

 

most of the world's famous contractors are American themselves

Raytheon, Lockheed, GE,GD,P&W etc

And guess who are they top-10 customers this Year?

Biggest buyers in fiscal 2011, and total spent:

1. Afghan Security Forces, $5.4 billion

2. Taiwan government, $4.9 billion

3. India, $4.5 billion

4. Australia, $3.9 billion

5. Saudi Arabia, $3.5 billion

6. Iraq, $2.0 billion

7. United Arab Emirates, $1.5 billion

8. Israel, $1.4 billion

9. Japan, $500 million

10.Sweden, $500 million

 

Source:2011 U.S. foreign arms sales.

 

 

the Americans are hardly the ones doing the stealing today whereas the same cant be said for the Chinese

U.S. Intelligence Eyes Chinese Research into Space-Age Weapons

Source:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB351/ (De-classified doc of spying on China nuclear-related developments)

 

Other reference:

Declassified Documents: Half Century of U.S. Spying on China

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=25778

[Wishcumstrue]

I was actually referring to the underside of the wings. There seem to be 2 hardpoints on each. Could these be used for a modular payload eg. LANTIRN or External Synthetic Aperture Radars?

 

Not sure. It's classified

 

However, your picture of such a configuration is interesting, I havnt seen any airframe with such a configuration before.

This one not classified.

 

Both Boeing and Lockheed had based some of their proposed future projects on this but never got any flying prototypes.

 

Only China's Chengdu Aircraft Design and Research Institute & China Aviation Industry Corporation (CAIC) that got to this advanced stage.

 

They plan to export the production version once receiving okay from China gov.

[Renegade777]

wah this is old man mentality. you should be in your 40s.

 

Nowadays all the youths condemn china, we have a mentality that we no longer are "chinese" but are singaporeans. whoever can speak singlish belongs to our group and neither can we depend on China nor will China give us second thoughts. We as "chinese" singaporeans are mere outsiders.

 

No. Don't jump to conclusion leh even without thinking. Singapore youths do not condemn China and for the fact I know the difference between nationality and race does not means old man mentality which I am not.

 

And I did not say anything about being China or depending/getting help from them. I am Singapore and China is China and I also don't give a hoot. Two different nationals. What I am saying "our race", we are Chinese and not some Englishman, Indians etc.

 

Race and nationality is different. Being Singaporean Chinese does not mean you are not a Chinese by race. There is no such thing as Singaporean race. Go check with ICA la. When comes to race portion, it states clearly Chinese if you are one and nationality is Singaporean if you are one. That race identity cannot be erase whether you are a Singaporean or China Citizen. Race is still Chinese but I am a Singaporean and people from China are just Chinese National or simply they call themselve Chinese.

 

 

Over in Singapore

Nationality : Singaporean

Race : Chinese

 

Over In China

Nationality : China Citizen/Chinese

Race : Chinese

 

But not all China Nationals are Chinese in race. There are other races too but I am sure a Chinese by race and Singaporean by nationality.

 

Edited December 12, 2011 by Renegade777

[Twnll]

china has to innovate and stop copying!

 

at least ST is doing better with the tanks

 

 

Any news about the new light tank being developed by ST to replace AMX13?

[Scion]

USA to Iran: "Give me back the drone! so I can continue to spy on you"

 

 

US demands Iran return drone

 

WASHINGTON: President Barack Obama acknowledged for the first time Monday that a US drone was in Iranian hands and said the United States has asked Tehran to return the sophisticated spycraft.

 

"We've asked for it back. We'll see how the Iranians respond," Obama said at a news conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.

 

It was the first open confirmation by the Obama administration that Iran was in possession of the drone, which Tehran says it brought down as the plane was flying over its territory.

 

Obama, however, shed no further light on the plane's mission or why it failed to return to a base in Afghanistan.

 

"With respect to the drone inside of Iran, I'm not going to comment on intelligence matters that are classified," he said.

 

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the United States had made a "formal request" to Tehran to return the drone but expressed doubt the arch-US foe would do so.

 

"Given Iran's behaviour to date, we do not expect them to comply," Clinton told reporters at a press conference with British Foreign Secretary William Hague, with whom she discussed Iran.

 

The bat-winged RQ-170 Sentinel, a stealth drone designed to evade radar for surveillance flights, was on a CIA mission when it went missing, US officials, speaking anonymously, have said previously.

 

The episode has handed Iran a propaganda coup and Iranian state television has shown images of a robotic aircraft that experts say resembles the Sentinel.

 

Iran has vowed to reverse engineer the drone but has given contradictory accounts of how the aircraft went down on December 4. Tehran initially said it shot down the drone but later claimed the Iranian military managed to hack into the plane's flight controls.

 

Defence Secretary Leon Panetta voiced scepticism that Iran would manage to gain much of a technological advantage from the aircraft.

 

"It's a little difficult to know just frankly how much they're going to be able to get from having obtained those parts," Panetta told reporters aboard a US military aircraft.

 

"I don't know the conditions of those parts. I don't know what state they're in."

 

Asked if Iran may have forced the plane down in a cyber attack, Panetta said: "I don't know."

 

US officials previously indicated it was more likely the drone suffered a malfunction.

 

Other American drones have flown off-course in the past, including the Fire Scout robotic helicopter, with which engineers lost contact during a 2010 flight in Maryland.

 

Military commanders at one point considered shooting the helicopter down as it was heading toward the US capital but technicians managed to regain control of the aircraft.

 

US officials and analysts also have cast doubt over Iran's ability to replicate the drone -- at least without the help of Russia or China.

 

"US capabilities are remarkably advanced, and it's unclear that the Iranians have the expertise" to exploit the advanced technology -- including sensors -- in the aircraft, a US official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

 

- AFP/wk

[Vulcann]

USA to Iran: "Give me back the drone! so I can continue to spy on you"

 

 

US demands Iran return drone

 

WASHINGTON: President Barack Obama acknowledged for the first time Monday that a US drone was in Iranian hands and said the United States has asked Tehran to return the sophisticated spycraft.

 

"We've asked for it back. We'll see how the Iranians respond," Obama said at a news conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.

 

It was the first open confirmation by the Obama administration that Iran was in possession of the drone, which Tehran says it brought down as the plane was flying over its territory.

 

Obama, however, shed no further light on the plane's mission or why it failed to return to a base in Afghanistan.

 

"With respect to the drone inside of Iran, I'm not going to comment on intelligence matters that are classified," he said.

 

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the United States had made a "formal request" to Tehran to return the drone but expressed doubt the arch-US foe would do so.

 

"Given Iran's behaviour to date, we do not expect them to comply," Clinton told reporters at a press conference with British Foreign Secretary William Hague, with whom she discussed Iran.

 

The bat-winged RQ-170 Sentinel, a stealth drone designed to evade radar for surveillance flights, was on a CIA mission when it went missing, US officials, speaking anonymously, have said previously.

 

The episode has handed Iran a propaganda coup and Iranian state television has shown images of a robotic aircraft that experts say resembles the Sentinel.

 

Iran has vowed to reverse engineer the drone but has given contradictory accounts of how the aircraft went down on December 4. Tehran initially said it shot down the drone but later claimed the Iranian military managed to hack into the plane's flight controls.

 

Defence Secretary Leon Panetta voiced scepticism that Iran would manage to gain much of a technological advantage from the aircraft.

 

"It's a little difficult to know just frankly how much they're going to be able to get from having obtained those parts," Panetta told reporters aboard a US military aircraft.

 

"I don't know the conditions of those parts. I don't know what state they're in."

 

Asked if Iran may have forced the plane down in a cyber attack, Panetta said: "I don't know."

 

US officials previously indicated it was more likely the drone suffered a malfunction.

 

Other American drones have flown off-course in the past, including the Fire Scout robotic helicopter, with which engineers lost contact during a 2010 flight in Maryland.

 

Military commanders at one point considered shooting the helicopter down as it was heading toward the US capital but technicians managed to regain control of the aircraft.

 

US officials and analysts also have cast doubt over Iran's ability to replicate the drone -- at least without the help of Russia or China.

 

"US capabilities are remarkably advanced, and it's unclear that the Iranians have the expertise" to exploit the advanced technology -- including sensors -- in the aircraft, a US official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

 

- AFP/wk

 

Can I have the sledgehammer I left over at your house during housebreaking last night PLEASE?

 

[laugh]

[Shull]

ok so how is your favourite USA going to do about this?

 

gifting one of their advanced technologies to a increasingly hostile country

 

what an embarrassing moment for the US intelligence

 

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle...vGgO_story.html

 

After this event.. I think US will implement remote bomb in all their UAVs... [laugh]

[Shull]

On the contrary, the other nations outside of US, are pretty innovative when comes to cutting-edge implementations. Copying/spying/imitations/espionage had been part of Great Power hidden warfare for years.

e.g:

 

We had the US getting Nazi German scientist for their rocket technology in 1945

We had US stealing UK's supersonic research secrets before X1's record-breaking flight in 1946

We had UK/US copying Nazi Germans's turbojet design from their Me262.

We had Russians copying UK's jet engine before putting their variant into Mig-15.

And it goes on and on...

 

Problem is we only get to hear the "good-guys" stories as we only allow our self to be exposed one-language publications and writings.

 

That can be a BIG handicap.

 

And in China's case, with over tens-of-thousands of engineering graduates and with Hunger to try, my bet is with PRC.

 

Having the best minds doesn't always yield real-world dividend when one is afraid to try.

 

The thing is, only up til very recently, most things behind the iron/bamboo curtain are hidden from the outside world. We get to see the westerns military power in action, but don't get to see those from Russia and China.

[Wishcumstrue]

Problem is we only get to hear the "good-guys" stories as we only allow our self to be exposed one-language publications and writings.

 

The thing is, only up til very recently, most things behind the iron/bamboo curtain are hidden from the outside world. We get to see the westerns military power in action, but don't get to see those from Russia and China.

 

 

Until recently (say last fortnights), have you allow yourself to read some these non-US news/publishings/media report ?

 

Did I say "handicap" ?

[SLSAMG88]

china has to innovate and stop copying!

 

at least ST is doing better with the tanks

 

How do you think the Americans got started?

 

They granted immunity and freedom to Nazi scientists, in exchange for their knowledge on Rocket science and aerodynamics.

 

It's widely acknowledged, without the Nazis, we would have entered the jet age much later.

[Topspin]

Not true. You are typing "ang mo". This language does not come from China but comes from "ang mo" countries.

 

If you are a Chinese, your language is still Mandarin and your ancestor are from China and not anywhere else. They speak mandarin. Unless your ancestors comes from ang mo countries. Still copycat if you are a Chinese.

 

Who says Mandarin is the language of our ancestors. Mandarin has a relatively short history compared to other chinese languages which we conveniently relegate them as dialect. The most widespread ancient language used by the emperors and their subordinates is actually a version of present day Hokkien, believe it or not? Both Japanese and Korean language are themselves a derivative of that Hokkien language. Noticed that the syllable "K" is extensively used in Jap and Korean language just like present day Hokkien. It is mostly absent in Mandarin.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Topspin