The Strenght of America vs the strenght of China

[Shull]

No leh...

 

Shah Pahlavi

Saddam

Suharto

Macross

 

Shah and Saddam has oil, what about Macross and Suharto?

 

Suharto and Macross are in the 90s? The US the and now are different.. I don't think the US now will be truly concerned with human rights.. If so, they would've whacked Myanmar and NK long ago..

[Joseph22]

Suharto and Macross are in the 90s? The US the and now are different.. I don't think the US now will be truly concerned with human rights.. If so, they would've whacked Myanmar and NK long ago..

 

i dont think they were ever concern about human right to begin with.

 

I always thought they whack vietnam more so to have a base nearer to Soviet.

 

while whacking Iraq, apart for oil, will be having a foot hold right beside china.

[Scion]

Suharto and Macross are in the 90s? The US the and now are different.. I don't think the US now will be truly concerned with human rights.. If so, they would've whacked Myanmar and NK long ago..

 

actually human rights and war dun work hand in hand... something like drink and drive

 

if want to start a war, then cannot talk about human rights... and vice versa

 

try shooting a missile at shanghai city with 10m population, the whole world will turn against u...

[Shull]

i dont think they were ever concern about human right to begin with.

 

I always thought they whack vietnam more so to have a base nearer to Soviet.

 

while whacking Iraq, apart for oil, will be having a foot hold right beside china.

 

Vietnam and North Korea was to counter rising communism..

 

Afgan is revenge for 9/11

 

Iraq is probably for the oil (and Saddam has been a pain in the arse to US for quite some time)

 

 

[Scion]

national interest always come first, for any countries

 

last time when young, influenced by others, i always thought that US was the world hero... they helped to defeat the evil Japanese and Germans during WWII

 

but the more i read, the more i disagree

 

so many genocides happened in the last 3 decades in Myanmar, Somalia, Congo, etc... but US and NATO never bothered to interfere (using the reason of defending human rights)

 

but they invaded Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan

[Joseph22]

Vietnam and North Korea was to counter rising communism..

 

Afgan is revenge for 9/11

 

Iraq is probably for the oil (and Saddam has been a pain in the arse to US for quite some time)

 

Iraq was actually a lesser threat to USA compare to Iran. Frankly speaking, i dont think Oil is the only reason.

[Cerano]

the fact is, we could actually have a world that is not dominated by either that works. Our current world which is US dominated would have us believe that the alternative would be one that is dominated by the Chinese. However, is that really true?

 

The diplomats may say so but their generals sure dont. The Chinese are as bit as power hungry as the US if not more.

[Cerano]

War is never about claiming who will win and who will not. It is not about technology too. A war is won only it is fought and people fighting in it is the most valuable asset which we have seen US losing wars after fighting with so many smaller countries. I don't believe they can move a big mountain coz they cannot even shift small ones. Experience already revealed so much thru the years so let us not cheat ourselves just by looking beautiful numbers.

 

Like I mentioned, the US Army has always been geared towards symmetric warfare. Look at Iraq and how fast they were able to take the military.

 

And Vietnam was only because of unwillingness to kill civilians plus the watergate scandal and festering political instability.

 

All of which will not exist given the existence of a common enemy to democracy and freedom and the american way of life, China.

[Cerano]

Didn't they just completed the refurbishment of an ex-Soviet carrier? as part of their Blue Water Navy program..

 

IMO, it will take at least 10yrs to develop the doctrine and tactics needed to match USN in carrier warfare. USN has had carrier warfare experience from WW2 while PLAN is only developing such capabilities now.

 

More than 10 years. Around 20-30 would be required at the minimum. Yes the refurbed the varyag from the russians.

 

The USN reigns supreme in the sea. Simple as that. When you have seen first hand the quality of their training programmes, their dedication and their technology, you will be in awe. And no i dont mean movies

[Without_a_car]

they got invade Indonesia meh??

 

Steve Hanke testimony

 

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=7772

 

 

"The United States Treasury quite deliberately used the economic collapse as a means of bringing about the ouster of President Suharto." Former U.S. Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleberger weighed in with a similar diagnosis: "We were fairly clever in that we supported the IMF as it overthrew [suharto]. Whether that was a wise way to proceed is another question. I'm not saying Mr. Suharto should have stayed, but I kind of wish he had left on terms other than because the IMF pushed him out." Even Michel Camdessus could not find fault with these assessments. On the occasion of his retirement, he proudly proclaimed: "We created the conditions that obliged President Suharto to leave his job."

 

To depose Suharto, two deceptions were necessary. The first involved forging an IMF public position of open hostility to currency boards. This deception was required to convince Suharto that he was acting heretically and that, if he continued, it would be costly. The IMF's hostility required a quick about-face: Less than a year before the Indonesian uproar, Bulgaria (where I was President Stoyanov's advisor) had installed a currency board on July 1, 1997 with the enthusiastic endorsement of the IMF, and Bosnia and Herzegovina (where I advised the government on currency board implementation) had followed suit under the mandate of the Dayton Peace Agreement and with IMF support on August 11, 1997.

[Cerano]

Cerano, remember the not so recent Earth quake incident in China?

 

look at how fast the Reds army react. Even US army can't activate their own arms forces with such multitude.

 

Do note, Chinese are a very proud race. weak will was not in their blood. if anything, their will are strong.

 

Remember the New Orleans flood and how fast the National Guard responded? Remember the initial coverup in China by the government?

 

I am Chinese and I am ashamed to say that the pure Chinese race in China are too proud for their own good and need to be humbled to their knees.

[Cerano]

yep, thanks to the democracy of US and Europe (debt ceiling, supercommittee, austerity cuts, etc), they got the whole world into this big financial mess now

 

the best system is not democracy and republic, and definitely not communism or socialism

 

the best system is having a government that is democratic in its politics and authoritarian in tackling economic issues

 

currently, the European leaders have been so "democratic" in their decisions that they let the whole sovereign debt crisis blown out of proportion

 

uhm.... you mean the singaporean system?

[Joseph22]

Like I mentioned, the US Army has always been geared towards symmetric warfare. Look at Iraq and how fast they were able to take the military.

 

And Vietnam was only because of unwillingness to kill civilians plus the watergate scandal and festering political instability.

 

All of which will not exist given the existence of a common enemy to democracy and freedom and the american way of life, China.

Iraq itself was been stave for years before US strike.

Their citizen dont support their ruler

for all you know, Iraq own millitants might had not been willing to fight it.

 

while for china, its different. Their citizen are mainly proud of their own government and Reds Army. (at least from what i gather when i spoke to most of my PRC colleague.)

[Lethalstrike]

Like I mentioned, the US Army has always been geared towards symmetric warfare. Look at Iraq and how fast they were able to take the military.

 

And Vietnam was only because of unwillingness to kill civilians plus the watergate scandal and festering political instability.

 

All of which will not exist given the existence of a common enemy to democracy and freedom and the american way of life, China.

 

Iraq's army is quite a joke la, frankly speaking. Maybe their Republican Guard still have some standard, the rest of the conscripts don't need to say when their loyalty to Saddam is in doubts at the first place.

 

Vietnam is lost because the Soviets are in the picture. They dared not risk too much to against the communists.

 

China has already adopted the American Way of Life, or should i say Way of Destruction? Just look at consumerism in modern China now.

[Without_a_car]

Iraq was actually a lesser threat to USA compare to Iran. Frankly speaking, i dont think Oil is the only reason.

 

Shah of Iran was toppled to support Saud family for cheaper oil and OPEC pricing of oil in USD.

 

From the book Oil Kings

 

Increasing oil prices . . . America struggling with a recession . . . European nations at risk of defaulting on their loans . . . A possible global financial crisis. It happened before, in the 1970s.

 

Oil Kings is the story of how oil came to dominate U.S. domestic and international affairs. As Richard Nixon fought off Watergate inquiries in 1973, the U.S. economy reacted to an oil shortage initiated by Arab nations in retaliation for American support of Israel in the Arab- Israeli war. The price of oil skyrocketed, causing serious inflation. One man the U.S. could rely on in the Middle East was the Shah of Iran, a loyal ally whose grand ambitions had made him a leading customer for American weapons. Iran sold the U.S. oil; the U.S. sold Iran missiles and fighter jets. But the Shah

[Joseph22]

Remember the New Orleans flood and how fast the National Guard responded? Remember the initial coverup in China by the government?

 

I am Chinese and I am ashamed to say that the pure Chinese race in China are too proud for their own good and need to be humbled to their knees.

 

Fast, but are they as organise?

 

speaking of cover up. You know how much s--t USA cover up in Alfanstan and Iraq war? s

 

you can say you are chinese, but you arent Chinese. me included

 

the true Chinese are those Living in China. you can say China race are too proud, but that had always been the case for ancient past. and till date, they are still standing strong as they are.

[Scion]

love them or hate them, China is a land of opportunities

 

they were the richest in the world during Tang and Song Dynasties

 

after that almost destroyed by the Mongols

 

they bounced back to become the richest in the world again during Ming/Qing (from Yongle of Ming to Yongzhen of Qing)

 

plundered by the West and Japan for 100 years (1840 to 1945), followed by the disastrous Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution

 

then came the economic reform in the late seventies

 

became the richest country in the world again (and second biggest economy) in a matter of 30+ years

[Without_a_car]

love them or hate them, China is a land of opportunities

 

they were the richest in the world during Tang and Song Dynasties

 

after that almost destroyed by the Mongols

 

they bounced back to become the richest in the world again during Ming/Qing (from Yongle of Ming to Yongzhen of Qing)

 

plundered by the West and Japan for 100 years (1840 to 1945), followed by the disastrous Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution

 

then came the economic reform in the late seventies

 

became the richest country in the world again (and second biggest economy) in a matter of 30+ years

 

During the 80s Japan was also a post war miracle, the pro American Japanese elite plunged the country in economic recession with the plaza accord/Lourve accord.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord

 

Only time will tell if the Chinese comes out ahead in the game of Great Nations.