The Strenght of America vs the strenght of China

[Happily1986]

Far from the it. You can see from recent events that the US does not fear China just one bit.

 

Normal people like you and I dont know but I am certain that the Americans know.

 

There is only so much you can buy with a limited budget of around $100 billion as compared to the American defense budget of $700 billion excluding war costs.

 

War to the point of annihilation has never been erased. The entire US military has been designed around such a scenario and will without doubt produce a real winner, them.

 

Take my word in this, with the Chinese in the way that they are now, they have 0 chance of defeating the US even without them invoking Article 5 of the NATO charter.

 

There will come a tipping point. Beyond which all political considerations eg. death toll and cost become moot. Vietnam never reached that point.

The pentagon doesn't even know the exact Chinese defence budget and you know? my toes are laughing.

[Cerano]

4138676[/url]']

The pentagon doesn't even know the exact Chinese defence budget and you know? my toes are laughing.

 

What do you mean they dont know

 

China defense budget to stir regional disquiet

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7230ZN20110304

 

Then again if you dont mean these figures and think the chinese are lying then the americans might as well be lying too. Whatever the case, the ratio is around 6-7:1. How to fight?

Edited December 1, 2011 by Cerano

[Civic2000]

The most likely event that could lead to a war between China & US is the Taiwan Strait crisis between China & Taiwan. China will surely declare war against Taiwan if the latter were to declare independent. And this article suggests that there are 5 reasons that U.S. forces did not dare interfere with the war across the Taiwan Strait.

 

http://wareye.com/five-reasons-that-u-s-fo...e-taiwan-strait

 

First, U.S. global interests will be seriously threatened

China is not Yugoslavia, not Iraq, but today

Edited December 1, 2011 by Civic2000

[Happily1986]

What do you mean they dont know

 

China defense budget to stir regional disquiet

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7230ZN20110304

 

Then again if you dont mean these figures and think the chinese are lying then the americans might as well be lying too. Whatever the case, the ratio is around 6-7:1. How to fight?

 

Your english fail lah. Tell me explicitly which sentence actually impressed on you that the Americans actually knew what the exact amount was. pray tell. oh really.

 

Many experts believe China's actual spending on the 2.3 million-strong People's Liberation Army (PLA) is far higher than what the government reports.

 

And if you sincerely believe what the Chinese quotes in the press, i think you must be daft. Some of their top level cadres within the CCCP have openly expressed doubt over economic data prepared by lower officials. Please don't tell me you are even taking their figures with a pinch of salt especially when it comes to the politically touchy feely subject of defence budget. Given that the Chinese official reported budget is often used as a base to project estimates of the real budget, there is a good possibility that the estimates are by extension, totally lopsided.

 

Wikileak related

Edited December 1, 2011 by Happily1986

[Cerano]

4138695[/url]']

Your english fail lah. Tell me explicitly which sentence actually impressed on you that the Americans actually knew what the exact amount was. pray tell. oh really.

 

Many experts believe China's actual spending on the 2.3 million-strong People's Liberation Army (PLA) is far higher than what the government reports.

 

And if you sincerely believe what the Chinese quotes in the press, i think you must be daft. Some of their top level cadres within the CCCP have openly expressed doubt over economic data prepared by lower officials. Please don't tell me you are even taking their figures with a pinch of salt especially when it comes to the politically touchy feely subject of defence budget. Given that the Chinese official reported budget is often used as a base to project estimates of the real budget, there is a good possibility that the estimates are by extension, totally lopsided.

 

Wikileak related

 

Like i have mentioned, all of these values are only those released to the public. Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that their budget is double? What difference does it make when the US is still spending 3.5x more.

Simple fact of the matter is that the Chinese have no way of defeating the US. Nuff said. Not in terms of technology, not in terms of equipment and most certainly not in terms of motivation.

Like the ad says, there is nothing stronger than a US Army soldier. In many ways that is true. Certainly not a farmer conscripted off the fields of a backwater town in China.

Arguing about anything else is moot. The US will win just as how freedom and good always triumphs. The US epitomises those.

 

 

 

[Lethalstrike]

War is an art.

 

The US has perfected the art of making war. Make no mistake its armies are still skewed towards symmetric warfare at the moment which makes it perfect for destroying large forces like the PLA.

 

Lets not even consider the dedication and violence of action that these proud American men & women possess as opposed to the weak will of the chinese.

 

To put this into perspective, Singapore has around 120 fighters not accounting certain ones that are routinely sent to the US for PC1,PC2 etc.

 

The US Navy alone has around 4000 planes or more, the US Army around 2000, the USMC 1000-2000, USAF 5000-6000 planes.

 

Imagine that

 

This is provided that the US taxpayers still have enough to fund a war.

 

Why attack the Chinese? It makes more sense to whack the hell out of Middle-East and gain influence in the critical oil-producing regions. That is why they are trying to topple Iran right now, as they have been quite obtrusive to the US interests within the region.

 

 

[Scion]

The US will win just as how freedom and good always triumphs. The US epitomises those.

 

wow... you watched too much GI Joe?

 

If China is a devil, US is not a saint too... the world is no longer naive to believe US starts wars for the good cause

Edited December 1, 2011 by Scion

[Cerano]

4138687[/url]']

The most likely event that could lead to a war between China & US is the Taiwan Strait crisis between China & Taiwan. China will surely declare war against Taiwan if the latter were to declare independent. And this article suggests that there are 5 reasons that U.S. forces did not dare interfere with the war across the Taiwan Strait.

 

http://wareye.com/five-reasons-that-u-s-fo...e-taiwan-strait

 

First, U.S. global interests will be seriously threatened

China is not Yugoslavia, not Iraq, but today's "universally recognized as a military power," with "unparalleled war potential" and the direct attack on the U.S. mainland's missile and nuclear weapons.Once the United States intervene in the Taiwan Strait, nuclear non-proliferation cooperation will "come to naught," the United States will become "enemies."In accordance with the "enemy's enemy is my friend," the U.S. bullying for many years in Iraq, Yugoslavia, Iran, Libya, Cuba and other countries may become China's ally. China and Russia are establishing a new strategic partnership. Once the Sino-US war, the world pattern will break up, and Russia (and perhaps India) to establish a military alliance against the United States is not inconceivable. China has long said the United States Ruoqiang Taiwan into the theater missile defense system, that is, destruction of the missile technology control mechanism, then, Iraq, Iran, North Korea received nuclear missile technology from China if the United States in the world will be threatened. .

 

Second, the U.S. regional interests will be in trouble

Because once the United States intervene in a Taiwan Strait war, the United States all its troops in the Pacific theater will be hampered, the United States in Northeast Asia, Southeast Asia and South Asia, the lack of strength will occur, is difficult to look into a beginning and end position.

 

Third, the U.S. economic interests will suffer enormous damage

Because the U.S. economy, the Chinese mainland than in Taiwan, "I do not know how many times more important." The United States in China and Hong Kong, a total investment of 94 billion U.S. dollars in Taiwan, only 50 billion U.S. dollars. Once the Sino-US confrontation would be a severe blow to the U.S. economic base.

 

Fourth, the U.S. military does not constitute an absolute advantage in

Because of China's weapons and equipment, although in general, smaller than the United States, but there are many "killer": China's world-class reconnaissance satellites; launch of the spacecraft used in the small momentum technologies that make missiles with penetrating U.S. national missile defense system (NMD) of the ability to strike at U.S. territory; China, the world's leading technology of small neutron bomb, the U.S. aircraft carrier impossible to defend.

 

5, the United States can not afford a large number of casualties

Because of China, the Taiwan Strait crisis, the U.S. naval supremacy and the future of China's rise "to cripple the existing" in the beginning, China's choice is bound to be "resolutely smash the U.S. to contain China's island chain," the war is bound to a large number of casualties !For China, in order to unification at all costs; for the United States is not the same.

 

The analyst is correct in his prediction that the most likely source of conflict is the Taiwanese issue.

However his analysis has also a few key problems.

First of all, this is a fight between two powers. Not a US-Vietnam kind of assymetric fight. In this the USA is likely to throw in its all. At which instance money will become moot and the only thing that will matter is the amount of men and materiel on the ground. Such a crisis could certainly lead to an invasion of China itself to seoze its wealth.

Any talk of China eliminatong their stock of US reserves then becomes moot.

Furthermore at this point it will also be a matter of survival for the US in which political will becomes another moot point. The concept of total war (akin to total defence) will be enacted and the casualty count will hardly matter as long as more chinese die.

Furthermore we are already discounting the NATO factor which is critical since it would probably mean the world descending in ww3 since NATO is legally bound into declarong war with the Chinese too. UK, Canada and a whole host of mighty militaries being forced to fight as well. Do you really think China has a chance even with the support of renegade iran. And NK?

Not at all. As highlighted by so many, the only thing holding the US back are money and politics but in the global war scenario we're painting, none of these even matter anymore.

 

 

 

 

[Cerano]

4138718[/url]']

The US will win just as how freedom and good always triumphs. The US epitomises those.

 

wow... you watched too much GI Joe?

 

If China is a devil, US is not a saint too... the world is no longer naive to believe US starts wars for the good cause

 

Whatever the case id rather freedom and democracy and the american spirit over the condemnation and communism of a backwater country

[Cerano]

4138715[/url]']

This is provided that the US taxpayers still have enough to fund a war.

 

Why attack the Chinese? It makes more sense to whack the hell out of Middle-East and gain influence in the critical oil-producing regions. That is why they are trying to topple Iran right now, as they have been quite obtrusive to the US interests within the region.

 

The US has no interest in fighting china now but im explaining that at least if this should happen, then yes the US is capable of defeating any foe that stands in the way of freedom

[Scion]

The US has no interest in fighting china now but im explaining that at least if this should happen, then yes the US is capable of defeating any foe that stands in the way of freedom

 

well, in that case, if US intends to eliminate China, then they better do it now

 

in another 50 years, i doubt they can do it

 

[Cerano]

4138730[/url]']

well, in that case, if US intends to eliminate China, then they better do it now

 

in another 50 years, i doubt they can do it

 

I guess so too. There is no doubt that china is improving / copying.

Have u seen their UAV from chengdu?

Its exactly 99% like a predator/reaper drone but u know whats the only difference?

The tail is inverted

[Lethalstrike]

The US has no interest in fighting china now but im explaining that at least if this should happen, then yes the US is capable of defeating any foe that stands in the way of freedom

 

Somehow or another, for every war which was supposedly won by the US forces, the implications and consequences always came back to them back in the ass when they least expected it.

 

The US can win a war by technological and tactical superiority, but they will never win over the hearts and minds of the people which they had wrongfully invaded.

[Happily1986]

Like i have mentioned, all of these values are only those released to the public. Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that their budget is double? What difference does it make when the US is still spending 3.5x more.

Simple fact of the matter is that the Chinese have no way of defeating the US. Nuff said. Not in terms of technology, not in terms of equipment and most certainly not in terms of motivation.

Like the ad says, there is nothing stronger than a US Army soldier. In many ways that is true. Certainly not a farmer conscripted off the fields of a backwater town in China.

Arguing about anything else is moot. The US will win just as how freedom and good always triumphs. The US epitomises those.

 

okay point noted but your point was invalid huh. Nobody really knows the amount. relative is relative, absolute quantity wise that is really another.

 

I am going to say something that is going to make your whole exercise of comparing the Chinese to the Americans moot.

 

American doctrine has evolved considerably post Vietnam war, post 1st Gulf war and even post 2nd Gulf war (aftermath of this one is that they realised that MBT is still needed) Something that has not changed is the fact that they have all along planned and maintained capacity and redundancy to enable themselves to fight two full scaled war (literally all out wars) in two different theatres simultaneously. Okay, in a nut shell, the USA is very the damn powderful.

 

On paper at least, i have not observed the Chinese express desire to expand their forces or offensive capabilities to match the Americans. One good litmus indicator to register such intent is to watch out for a conspicuous sign. An overt desire to expand the navy greatly so as to speak. I have keenly watched the Chinese naval expansion efforts since 1991. All that has seem to materialise thus far is that the Chinese seemed highly intent on acquiring primarily, a ambitious amphibious capability (ostensibly to retake Formosa). I have read white papers and they have in unison described the Chinese as being intent on expanding their naval capability so as to attain firstly the status of a brown water navy then subsequently a green water navy.

 

When the Chinese unfurl plans to establish a blue water navy then can you start your valid comparison. Until then, it is a futile exercise to compare both entities because the Chinese was never interested in a head on war with the Americans.

 

A shrewd military acquires capabilities with objectives in mind, not with the primary aim of levelling off with another rival armed force(s). That is so circa WW1.

[Cerano]

4138733[/url]']

Somehow or another, for every war which was supposedly won by the US forces, the implications and consequences always came back to them back in the ass when they least expected it.

 

The US can win a war by technological and tactical superiority, but they will never win over the hearts and minds of the people which they had wrongfully invaded.

 

That may be true but sometimes we need to choose the lesser of two evils.

I dont think anyone of us here would like to imagine a chinese dominated world rather than a us dominated one

That would be very screwed up

[Happily1986]

That may be true but sometimes we need to choose the lesser of two evils.

I dont think anyone of us here would like to imagine a chinese dominated world rather than a us dominated one

That would be very screwed up

 

the fact is, we could actually have a world that is not dominated by either that works. Our current world which is US dominated would have us believe that the alternative would be one that is dominated by the Chinese. However, is that really true?

[Mllcg]

The most likely event that could lead to a war between China & US is the Taiwan Strait crisis between China & Taiwan. China will surely declare war against Taiwan if the latter were to declare independent. And this article suggests that there are 5 reasons that U.S. forces did not dare interfere with the war across the Taiwan Strait.

 

http://wareye.com/five-reasons-that-u-s-fo...e-taiwan-strait

 

First, U.S. global interests will be seriously threatened

China is not Yugoslavia, not Iraq, but today

[Renegade777]

 

War is never about claiming who will win and who will not. It is not about technology too. A war is won only it is fought and people fighting in it is the most valuable asset which we have seen US losing wars after fighting with so many smaller countries. I don't believe they can move a big mountain coz they cannot even shift small ones. Experience already revealed so much thru the years so let us not cheat ourselves just by looking beautiful numbers.