Free Uni Places For Foreigners while Our Children Struggle

[Latio2005A]

From Yahoo News:

 

Local university and junior college students are feeling the heat from foreign students for coveted spots at local universities.

 

They were reacting to the news last week that international students make up 18 per cent of the total undergraduate intake in Singapore's universities for the academic year 2011.

 

The proportion, however, appears to differ across faculties. Foreign students make up a mere one per cent in Medicine and Law courses, but the figure could go as high as 27 per cent in Science and Engineering.

 

Ng Ding Neng, 23, who is currently studying in Nanyang Technological University's School of Physical and Mathematical Sciences (Mathematics and Economics), said international students form around a quarter of his course, and most are from China.

 

In a written reply to MP Ang Wei Neng's queries in Parliament last Friday regarding the foreign student intake in universities, Minister of Education Heng Swee Keat explained that the exceptionally-high intake for Science and Engineering courses is attributed to the fact that they produce much-needed manpower in sustaining key industries but are "less popular with talented Singaporeans", reported Channel NewsAsia.

 

Heng also highlighted that majority of the international students are on the Tuition Grant scheme, which helps to defray their fees. Moreover, they are tied to a bond that requires them to work in Singapore for three years.

 

25-year-old Farhan Hamid from NUS told Yahoo! Singapore that this generates a double problem, because not only do they take up spaces in universities here, they are also taking up job opportunities for fresh graduates.

 

Another NTU student, Vera Lau Shi Min, 18, said the presence of foreigners drives up the bell-curve and forces local students to step-up and match the standards, or get a lower grade.

 

"As local students, we see our foreign peers as tough competition, which makes us frustrated instead of being a source of motivation. That's because our GPA depends on a bell-curve, hurting our grades as a result," the first-year NTU Sport Science and Management student proclaimed.

 

But is help on the way?

 

In his National Day Rally speech in August, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong assured that the government will set aside more places for Singaporeans in universities here and that the foreign enrollment (in absolute numbers) will be capped at present levels.

 

As such, it's expected the proportion of foreign students in local universities will eventually shrink, easing the unhappiness expressed by some who felt it is no longer "Singaporeans first" when it comes to places at local universities.

 

In fact, the percentage of foreign undergraduate intake was slightly higher at 20 per cent from the year 1999 to 2006, according to NUS Professor Dr. Loy Hui Chieh, who gathered information from the Education Statistics Digest Online. In 1997, it was only 10 per cent.

 

Data from 2007 to 2010 are not readily available online.

 

 

But apart from competition in the classroom, do Singaporean students generally welcome their foreign counterparts in campus life?

 

Foo Jiahui from Nanyang Business School said that having foreigners definitely adds colour to campus life and makes it interesting to mix around with people from different nationalities.

 

Chua Khoon Wee, on the other hand, claimed that interaction between foreign and local students is limited, and foreigners are usually either alone or in their own groups, though there are exceptions.

 

As for local students taking their A' Level examinations in two weeks' time, they are already feeling the intense pressure, as many compete for a limited number of places in universities here.

 

Liu Ting Ting, 18, from Nanyang Junior College, is one of them.

 

"I sincerely hope that the universities could put us students (taking Cambridge paper) as priority over the international students, simply because our mode of testing has proven to be more demanding than SATs and IB papers, and that competition is already tough within us as we compete for our As and Bs," she told Yahoo! Singapore.

 

But 17-year-old ASEAN scholar Ng Zhan Ming from Malaysia urged Singaporeans to be confident about facing competition for university places.

 

"Singaporeans should be happy that these foreigners are actually looking towards Singapore as a premier education hub, and how can Singapore who keeps wanting to 'increase its education standards' not accept more foreign students who might be more academically-inclined?" he questioned.

 

"The universities are already being very strict on foreigners due to political and social pressure," said the Raffles Institution (Junior College) student who scored 10 A1s for his O' Level examinations last year.

==============

 

And from one Singaporean called Desmond:

 

My wife (then-gf) had problem paying school fees during polytechnic times, despite holding two part time jobs.

 

Her dad was sick and not working. Her mum was surviving on $800 a month doing dish washing jobs, and supporting her younger sister who was still schooling.

 

The money earned by the family were mostly used for her poly fees, her sister's fees, the house loan as her dad was self employed with no CPF, etc, leaving them with no savings.

 

Once, my wife had problem paying her fees. She approached for financial help and was rejected. The poly's head approached her reminding her about the fees. She related her situation to the head hoping for some empathy. Shockingly, she was told that they couldnt help and advised her to take up more jobs despite knowing she was already on 2 part time jobs!

 

The point is, aren't those money used for these foreigners be better off helping one of our own?

Edited October 26, 2011 by Latio2005A

[CKP]

First Hard truth is because those foreigners are more talented...

 

Second Hard truth is because Singapore does not need so many with UNI education

 

 

Edited October 26, 2011 by CKP

[Mecontle]

First Hard truth is because those foreigners are more talented...

 

Second Hard truth is because Singapore does not need so many with UNI education

 

 

 

just as spore doesnt need so many NS men

[CKP]

just as spore doesnt need so many NS men

 

Alamak... then ST Engineering and Singapore Food Inudstry eat grass?

 

[marwing]

Bro, your claim in 2nd hard truth is opposite of the minister thinking. Singapore don't need too many UNI grad, why need foreign student to fill the manpower in science and tech in the future?

 

 

 

 

[CKP]

Bro, your claim in 2nd hard truth is opposite of the minister thinking.

 

Have you read the wikileaks on MOE saying "singapore does not need so many uni grads" based on the needs of the economy?

 

 

Singapore don't need too many UNI grad, why need foreign student to fill the manpower in science and tech in the future?

 

Answer is first hard truth lor... because these foreigners are more talented.

 

For example, Singapore only needs 500K uni grads, but because 100K foreigners are more talented than 100K locals, thus 100K locals have no place.

 

[Scion]

HK also face the same problems...

first from mainland chinese, then possibly from pinoys in the coming future...

 

but they dare to protest and fight for their rights

 

 

HONG KONG: More than 1000 protesters, including pregnant women, marched in Hong Kong on Sunday opposing the growing number of mainland Chinese women coming to the city to give birth, organisers said.

 

Women from mainland China are keen to have babies in Hong Kong - a city that has had semi-autonomous status within China since it ceased to be a British colony in 1997 - because it entitles their child to rights of abode and education.

 

Local expectant mothers, some with children in tow, marched to government headquarters in the southern Chinese city, carrying banners that read: "For Hong Kong's sake, fight for local women's right to give birth here."

 

"Local mothers are being forced to give birth in the corridors of hospitals because mainland mothers are over-crowding our hospitals," Annie Yam, a mother of two who took part in the march, told AFP.

 

"I was the only local mother in a 10-person maternity ward when I gave birth six months ago," she said. "The rest were mainland Chinese women."

 

Mainland mothers reportedly accounted for nearly half of the 88,000 births in the glitzy financial hub in 2010.

 

Earlier this year, Hong Kong announced a sharply reduced quota for mainland Chinese women allowed to give birth in its public hospitals next year.

 

Places for non-local women to deliver in public hospitals will be reduced to 3,400 in 2012 subject to the availability of maternity ward beds, health authorities have previously said.

 

But the protesters doubt the effectiveness of the move.

 

"The new measures will work only in the short term," spokeswoman of the protest Jocelyn Yiu said. "Mainland mothers have been abusing our emergency room services and the measures will not solve this problem."

 

"We are taxpayers, why is our resources spent on foreigners?" she added.

 

The government has come under pressure after doctors made a rare public call for a cap on the number of babies delivered in the city as resources for local mothers are stretched thin.

 

Earlier on Sunday, hundreds took part in another protest opposed to granting permanent residency to foreign domestic helpers.

 

Last month, a Hong Kong court ruled that a law banning foreign maids from permanent residency is unconstitutional in a landmark case that many feared could pave the way for a flood of applications.

 

- AFP/de

[Badder]

this generates a double problem, because not only do they take up spaces in universities here, they are also taking up job opportunities for fresh graduates.

 

 

 

if it was possible to fill the spaces with locals

 

 

and

 

 

if it was possible to fill the job vacancies with locals

 

 

 

 

why would the gov and universities be trying to attract and lock in overseas talents?

 

 

 

the OBVIOUS answer is THERE ARENT ENOUGH LOCALS APPLYING FOR THESE COURSES and there ISNT enough locals applying for THESE jobs

 

 

Sorry - but thats a fact.

 

If you dont think thats the reason then why on earth would the gov/uni do this????? they are not idiots - there must be a reason...use your brain.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Badder

[Badder]

HK also face the same problems...

first from mainland chinese, then possibly from pinoys in the coming future...

 

but they dare to protest and fight for their rights

 

 

yeh women coming to give birth and university slots

 

 

yeh that is exactly the same thing :wacko:

[Badder]

Have you read the wikileaks on MOE saying "singapore does not need so many uni grads" based on the needs of the economy?

 

 

 

 

Answer is first hard truth lor... because these foreigners are more talented.

 

For example, Singapore only needs 500K uni grads, but because 100K foreigners are more talented than 100K locals, thus 100K locals have no place.

 

 

 

i think its more that there arent enough local students and those that we have dont want to study these courses and do these jobs

 

 

The attracting of overseas students and locking them in with contracts to work here after their courses is not just a singapore thing it happens all over the world when a country has labour shortages in certain fields. Go to the UK and you will see 99% of medical students are on a scholarship from India - same reason

Edited October 26, 2011 by Badder

[Badder]

Bro, your claim in 2nd hard truth is opposite of the minister thinking. Singapore don't need too many UNI grad, why need foreign student to fill the manpower in science and tech in the future?

 

 

we actually need more science and tech grads and less of the kind of grad most singaporeans want to be.......

 

 

singaporeans shun doing engineering and science - this is a problem, so have to find our future talents overseas then force them (through scolarship) to work for us after

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kenomi]

Ask the 60% who feel there is no problem with it.

[Bystander50]

From Yahoo News:

 

Local university and junior college students are feeling the heat from foreign students for coveted spots at local universities.

 

They were reacting to the news last week that international students make up 18 per cent of the total undergraduate intake in Singapore's universities for the academic year 2011.

 

The proportion, however, appears to differ across faculties. Foreign students make up a mere one per cent in Medicine and Law courses, but the figure could go as high as 27 per cent in Science and Engineering.

 

Ng Ding Neng, 23, who is currently studying in Nanyang Technological University's School of Physical and Mathematical Sciences (Mathematics and Economics), said international students form around a quarter of his course, and most are from China.

 

In a written reply to MP Ang Wei Neng's queries in Parliament last Friday regarding the foreign student intake in universities, Minister of Education Heng Swee Keat explained that the exceptionally-high intake for Science and Engineering courses is attributed to the fact that they produce much-needed manpower in sustaining key industries but are "less popular with talented Singaporeans", reported Channel NewsAsia.

 

Heng also highlighted that majority of the international students are on the Tuition Grant scheme, which helps to defray their fees. Moreover, they are tied to a bond that requires them to work in Singapore for three years.

 

25-year-old Farhan Hamid from NUS told Yahoo! Singapore that this generates a double problem, because not only do they take up spaces in universities here, they are also taking up job opportunities for fresh graduates.

 

Another NTU student, Vera Lau Shi Min, 18, said the presence of foreigners drives up the bell-curve and forces local students to step-up and match the standards, or get a lower grade.

 

"As local students, we see our foreign peers as tough competition, which makes us frustrated instead of being a source of motivation. That's because our GPA depends on a bell-curve, hurting our grades as a result," the first-year NTU Sport Science and Management student proclaimed.

 

But is help on the way?

 

In his National Day Rally speech in August, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong assured that the government will set aside more places for Singaporeans in universities here and that the foreign enrollment (in absolute numbers) will be capped at present levels.

 

As such, it's expected the proportion of foreign students in local universities will eventually shrink, easing the unhappiness expressed by some who felt it is no longer "Singaporeans first" when it comes to places at local universities.

 

In fact, the percentage of foreign undergraduate intake was slightly higher at 20 per cent from the year 1999 to 2006, according to NUS Professor Dr. Loy Hui Chieh, who gathered information from the Education Statistics Digest Online. In 1997, it was only 10 per cent.

 

Data from 2007 to 2010 are not readily available online.

 

 

But apart from competition in the classroom, do Singaporean students generally welcome their foreign counterparts in campus life?

 

Foo Jiahui from Nanyang Business School said that having foreigners definitely adds colour to campus life and makes it interesting to mix around with people from different nationalities.

 

Chua Khoon Wee, on the other hand, claimed that interaction between foreign and local students is limited, and foreigners are usually either alone or in their own groups, though there are exceptions.

 

As for local students taking their A' Level examinations in two weeks' time, they are already feeling the intense pressure, as many compete for a limited number of places in universities here.

 

Liu Ting Ting, 18, from Nanyang Junior College, is one of them.

 

"I sincerely hope that the universities could put us students (taking Cambridge paper) as priority over the international students, simply because our mode of testing has proven to be more demanding than SATs and IB papers, and that competition is already tough within us as we compete for our As and Bs," she told Yahoo! Singapore.

 

But 17-year-old ASEAN scholar Ng Zhan Ming from Malaysia urged Singaporeans to be confident about facing competition for university places.

 

"Singaporeans should be happy that these foreigners are actually looking towards Singapore as a premier education hub, and how can Singapore who keeps wanting to 'increase its education standards' not accept more foreign students who might be more academically-inclined?" he questioned.

 

"The universities are already being very strict on foreigners due to political and social pressure," said the Raffles Institution (Junior College) student who scored 10 A1s for his O' Level examinations last year.

==============

 

And from one Singaporean called Desmond:

 

My wife (then-gf) had problem paying school fees during polytechnic times, despite holding two part time jobs.

 

Her dad was sick and not working. Her mum was surviving on $800 a month doing dish washing jobs, and supporting her younger sister who was still schooling.

 

The money earned by the family were mostly used for her poly fees, her sister's fees, the house loan as her dad was self employed with no CPF, etc, leaving them with no savings.

 

Once, my wife had problem paying her fees. She approached for financial help and was rejected. The poly's head approached her reminding her about the fees. She related her situation to the head hoping for some empathy. Shockingly, she was told that they couldnt help and advised her to take up more jobs despite knowing she was already on 2 part time jobs!

 

The point is, aren't those money used for these foreigners be better off helping one of our own?

 

Lucky your wife is able to get through, if not, years back, there would have been added statistics to the MRT track jumping rate.

Sometimes the gov just don't understand the problem and too much red-tape to prevent people from seeking help.

Some people may not fall within the category or just tipped the maximum range where assistance can be given, these people still need help.

I think by the time one completes the cycle of applying for assistance, the game is over - either that person is kicked out of have jumped to solve the problem once and for all.

 

 

[Bystander50]

Alamak... then ST Engineering and Singapore Food Inudstry eat grass?

 

 

Nobody owes SFI for a living. If they can't serve food to the military, they jolly well diverify their biz to do something else.

For $7 a meal, I wonder how much profit they've milked SAF.

My cai peng costs less than $4 and is comparable.

 

 

[Latio2005A]

this generates a double problem, because not only do they take up spaces in universities here, they are also taking up job opportunities for fresh graduates.

 

 

 

if it was possible to fill the spaces with locals

 

 

and

 

 

if it was possible to fill the job vacancies with locals

 

 

 

 

why would the gov and universities be trying to attract and lock in overseas talents?

 

 

 

the OBVIOUS answer is THERE ARENT ENOUGH LOCALS APPLYING FOR THESE COURSES and there ISNT enough locals applying for THESE jobs

 

 

Sorry - but thats a fact.

 

If you dont think thats the reason then why on earth would the gov/uni do this????? they are not idiots - there must be a reason...use your brain.

 

My friend, your points are noted. But our point is: Why then we have to give grants to them? They come lor, pay themselves mah.

 

Here, son of the soil has to be screened chu chong 18 dai just to make sure that he is really realy broke to get some grants. That is the issue, if you still cannot see.

[Cable]

25-year-old Farhan Hamid from NUS told Yahoo! Singapore that this generates a double problem, because not only do they take up spaces in universities here, they are also taking up job opportunities for fresh graduates.

 

If the places were given to Singaporean, isn't it the same?

 

Another NTU student, Vera Lau Shi Min, 18, said the presence of foreigners drives up the bell-curve and forces local students to step-up and match the standards, or get a lower grade.

 

Blame foreigner when she is not good enough?

 

It is worrisome that the new generation is like this. Where is the mentality and drive that got Singapore to where we are?......

Edited October 26, 2011 by Cable

[Bystander50]

this generates a double problem, because not only do they take up spaces in universities here, they are also taking up job opportunities for fresh graduates.

 

 

 

if it was possible to fill the spaces with locals

 

 

and

 

 

if it was possible to fill the job vacancies with locals

 

 

 

 

why would the gov and universities be trying to attract and lock in overseas talents?

 

 

 

the OBVIOUS answer is THERE ARENT ENOUGH LOCALS APPLYING FOR THESE COURSES and there ISNT enough locals applying for THESE jobs

 

 

Sorry - but thats a fact.

 

If you dont think thats the reason then why on earth would the gov/uni do this????? they are not idiots - there must be a reason...use your brain.

 

If a foreigner comes here to study, after graduation, there is no difference between him and a local student.

Both are either equally s**tty or talented.

I've worked before with these "foreign talents" in my previous jobs, even having a Masters, our local grads are much better and knowledgable than them.

 

I don't think the problem lies with not enough applicants for the courses, otherwise many would not have gone the private sch or overseas route to get their degrees. If having a high cut off point is the main citeria for maintaining the "standard" of the uni, this will explain why our local grads are falling behind as the uni don't recognise the talents of these people in other fields. There is definitely enough takes for the courses even if these foreigners are not invited in.

 

 

[Scb11980]

we made our decision at the recent elections

 

lets live with it

 

they have the mandate because majority of singaporean want them to rule the way it has been since

 

so stop complaining

 

instead study harder

 

if not be a FT yourself and go to their country to work or study in their universities