CNA:Low Fert. Rate, No Immigration'll Lead To Pop. Decline

[Windwaver]

As i say in another thread..

 

Again.. knee jerk reaction to increase our working population by mass importing foreigners.. Why don't they look at the root of the problem? Why are Singaporeans not having more children?

 

Pay themselves sky high salary to solve problems.. but come out with solution which even I can think of..

 

 

I guess we're all seriously underpaid

[Felipe]

SG needs the critical mass to have continued growth. Like it or not, the gates are opened for the 60k/year entry.

We as stakeholders of this country cannot sit and do nothing. We need to procreate more and more.

Don't you know ? If you throw a stone in Orchard road, you have 50% chance hitting Non-local ? Yes its that bad...

 

the thing is this birth rate issue is not new to developed countries. In such countries, where ppl tend to be sufficient and careers are knowledge-based, with cities being crowded, having kids is a liability. If you're in a farm, having kids will be an asset, bcos they help u plough the land. But in modern society, there's little they can do other than to drain your wallet and hope 25 years later, they will repay u. And that's something no one can guarantee as we've seen so many old folks in homes. Prb the odds are worse than gambling in casino.

 

point is u don't see govts in other countries resorting to importing scores of FT bcos this will create other problems too and upset the balance. it's not wrong to have FT, but it must be controlled.

 

there have been lab experiments conducted on mice where there's overcrowding, mice tend not to reproduce. by adding more FT, there's even less of a chance for S'poreans to give birth. so the FT solution is just a quick-fix.

[CKP]

Most of them are Malaysians in the 80s.

 

Yup, a significant chunk of them were malaysians and from JB... that makes them even harder to distinguish from citizens.

 

I think 90s started to noticed some more from HK (their canto english accent very obvious) but they were not in any large numbers.

 

[Tigerwoods]

Well, have you asked where you get the term "critical mass"?

 

Is there really such thing as a critical mass?

 

I doubt think so because around 5 out of the top 20 richest country in the world (based on GDP per capita) has a population of less than 500K (luxembourg) to 36K (monaco).

 

The math in SG is simple. More people = more GDP.

Luxembourg ya... you are correct.

Isn't it sad ? Err. How much they pay their Ministers arh ??

[Felipe]

I guess we're all seriously underpaid

 

a politician is not a ceo. when we confuse the two, we'll have a problem. that's y a politician should not be paid a ceo's pay. i've yet to think of a ceo in history who makes a capable politician. unless of course, we mean to say past and present politicians are all useless except ours.

[CKP]

The math in SG is simple. More people = more GDP.

Luxembourg ya... you are correct.

Isn't it sad ? Err. How much they pay their Ministers arh ??

 

Ordinary salaries because Luxembourg government is ordinary mah.

 

Here, government and country is special (according to MM Lee) so must pay special pay.

 

[Tigerwoods]

the thing is this birth rate issue is not new to developed countries. In such countries, where ppl tend to be sufficient and careers are knowledge-based, with cities being crowded, having kids is a liability. If you're in a farm, having kids will be an asset, bcos they help u plough the land. But in modern society, there's little they can do other than to drain your wallet and hope 25 years later, they will repay u. And that's something no one can guarantee as we've seen so many old folks in homes. Prb the odds are worse than gambling in casino.

 

point is u don't see govts in other countries resorting to importing scores of FT bcos this will create other problems too and upset the balance. it's not wrong to have FT, but it must be controlled.

 

there have been lab experiments conducted on mice where there's overcrowding, mice tend not to reproduce. by adding more FT, there's even less of a chance for S'poreans to give birth. so the FT solution is just a quick-fix.

Ppl like Badder lurves FTs as they are expendable and scorns Sporeans as he thinks are Liabiliites. The only assets are non-human form...

 

I agree with your comments too.

We have reinvented the baby wheel. Small nucleus family, the breakdown of the 3-tier family units, its not possible to get the Birth rate of the 60~70s era.

We can't put any blame to Garment for this plight.

[Gukubird]

Would you consider having a baby, if you need

- service 30 years housing loan

- ever increasing bill (Public transport, utilities, food, inflation) All the factor affecting the increase cannot be controlled by GOV or can it?

- stagnant salary or lesser

- Increased competition for space, work and road.

- Company tends to favour FT

 

Singapore is run more like a Company instead of a Country.

Alot of people have asked this question, what is GDP growth if the people of the country dont get to benefit from it?

So far, none of the MIW or even local forum PAP support gave an clear answer to it. (or did i miss it)

 

If Singapore is a Company, I can understand the need for growth but Singapore as a country?

Unless the professoner is talking about FT nurse or care giver, i dont understand how FT can give better care to the aged?

 

The heartware for this country is lost. Singapore is degenerating from a Nation back to a trading port (Thats where we got the money in the 1st place)

[Felipe]

Ppl like Badder lurves FTs as they are expendable and scorns Sporeans as he thinks are Liabiliites. The only assets are non-human form...

 

I agree with your comments too.

We have reinvented the baby wheel. Small nucleus family, the breakdown of the 3-tier family units, its not possible to get the Birth rate of the 60~70s era.

We can't put any blame to Garment for this plight.

 

to some extent we can't blame the govt for the present birth woes. however, there shouldn't have been controlled birth rate in the past too. but then again, i don't remember anyone going to jail for having another child then?

 

the present low birth rate is perhaps aggravated by past policies, but the govt is not the cause, it will happen eventually, as with all developed countries except USA. The govt needs to realise that importing FT simply isn't the solution. If it were, every other govt would do the same. it's after all not so difficult to do it. but notice u didn't hear other govts praising our high GDP. They know how we got it and how it's going to screw us up.

[Gendut]

This govt is softening the ground with propaganda news and studies to continue welcoming non-FTs.

 

More and more justifications will be parroted. Next time they will ask some university professor to front the news that we really need more intake.

 

At the end of the day, we become like rats in a rat house.

[Mockngbrd]

Too bad 60% of ppl no blain

[Playtime]

Did I hear wrongly at the end or did LKY ask the 27yr old PHD student not to waste time with her studies and go make babies?? And the rest of the students were actually laughing??? WTF!!!!!

 

The quality of these PHD students are a joke,,,

[1fast1]

A country is a company. absolutely no difference.

 

Except that noone in their right mind would be willing to die for a mere company. Noone in their right mind would be willing to sacrifice the life of their firstborn son for a mere company.

 

This is where *you* (and the MIW) have got it completely wrong. If Singapore continues to be run with the only consideration being the financial "bottom line", then we're doomed as a Nation. Why should anyone pledge their very lives to a corporate entity?

 

You deride the views of others as being based in "Dreamland", yet you seem to forget that Nations are built on intangible shared *principles*, not just hard-headed logic. It's no good to just pay lip service to those ideals, either - the gahmen has to be seen to embody them, and they've been failing at this of late (which is a major reason for the dwindling of their popular support).

Edited September 8, 2011 by Turboflat4

[Littleknown]

A country is a company. absolutely no difference.

 

So now we know what underpins your philosophy all this while.

 

Please post more.

[Scion]

A country is a company. absolutely no difference.

 

 

pray tell me any company in the world that requires its employees to serve defensive duties so as to protect the company and die for it

[Zze121]

FT come n go, Sg ppl leaving, this place become a transit terminal.

 

This "company" expend too fast, risk of closing down is very high.

 

Internal staff can't be promoted (no job), hire FT. Is Sg ppl CMI?

[Duckduck]

Except that noone in their right mind would be willing to die for a mere company. Noone in their right mind would be willing to sacrifice the life of their firstborn son for a mere company.

 

This is where *you* (and the MIW) have got it completely wrong. If Singapore continues to be run with the only consideration being the financial "bottom line", then we're doomed as a Nation. Why should anyone pledge their very lives to a corporate entity?

 

You deride the views of others as being based in "Dreamland", yet you seem to forget that Nations are built on intangible shared *principles*, not just hard-headed logic. It's no good to just pay lip service to those ideals, either - the gahmen has to be seen to embody them, and they've been failing at this of late (which is a major reason for the dwindling of their popular support).

 

Don't waste your time on him lah. He's famous for having 60s mentality w no empathy.

[Itsec]

Would you consider having a baby, if you need

- service 30 years housing loan

- ever increasing bill (Public transport, utilities, food, inflation) All the factor affecting the increase cannot be controlled by GOV or can it?

- stagnant salary or lesser

- Increased competition for space, work and road.

- Company tends to favour FT

 

Singapore is run more like a Company instead of a Country.

Alot of people have asked this question, what is GDP growth if the people of the country dont get to benefit from it?

So far, none of the MIW or even local forum PAP support gave an clear answer to it. (or did i miss it)

 

If Singapore is a Company, I can understand the need for growth but Singapore as a country?

Unless the professoner is talking about FT nurse or care giver, i dont understand how FT can give better care to the aged?

 

The heartware for this country is lost. Singapore is degenerating from a Nation back to a trading port (Thats where we got the money in the 1st place)

 

hmm.. what u said seem right... my working environment is so 'local'... lotsa of local grads... and we speak mandarin/hokkien/english... very very 'singlish'...few FTs dont have any means to blend in as they know s--t about our conversations and cant do our 'accent'. we joke around.... got problems, help each other, u scratch my back..i scratch urs... and most of them are married and wish to have kids... some have 2 and some going for first 1.. and my 2nd child coming soon...