CNA:Low Fert. Rate, No Immigration'll Lead To Pop. Decline

[CKP]

Strange if someone think during recession FT will go away. I don't see the reason for companies to hire locals in recession. Companies want to cut costs. FT will always be cheaper, if locals can take pay cut 10%, I'm sure FT will be more than willing to do it at 15% pay cut with additional work load.

 

During the last major recessions in 1985, 1997 and 2001-2003, foreigners leaving and not coming make up the largest contribution to the fall in population growth.

 

[Duckduck]

The future of migrants (other than those who convert to become citizens here) is basically a retirement back in their homeland. so as Sporeans, we may find ourselves competing with population renewal each time. And this new population may have no interest at all in this nation other than to make a living and go home.

 

and it's laughable that a professor's findings can suggest that the increase in migrants would contribute to a better a life for the aged. It's never been this govt's policy to take care of the old and i don't see it happening in the future when things get even harder.

 

It's like the OS in a PC. After some time of using it, the files get corrupted and old. Just do a system reboot and reload OS. This will be cycle for many years to come as long as the same govt remains in power. Congrats to the 60% who have made their choice.

 

so, the system here is either u become an elite so that it doesnt matter wat the future is like, or die trying to understand the meaning of building a future for our country, when we have declining ownership of it in future.

[Tigerwoods]

but.....but....we DO need them.....they are all working. They are all contributing.

Don't treat a country like your Company.. FTs or Sgeans, we are Human beings.

see this is where people like you get it wrong.

 

A country is a company. absolutely no difference.

you find that offensive because you live in dream land.

a country is no different from a well managed company with a caring boss - no different

Go live in a country with poor economics and tell me how it is to be a human being there

No industry, no money, no road, no security, no safety - everything is effected by money

its ugly but its the reality. i suggest you take off your rose coloured specticals. the world you want to live in DOESNT exist. because its a fantasy

Singapore gov job is to look after SINGAPOREANS. That means when we need FTs we can bring them in. They benefit and we benefit.

If the worse happens and jobs are lost the FTs who lose their jobs have to leave. This is only right i think. of course nobody wants that and i doubt anyone employs FTs because they have to leave if they lose their job (afterall that doesnt benefit the employer in anyway) but from a gov perspective the ability to bring in people when you need them and 'naturally' get rid of them when you dont (when the jobs are lost) is undeniably a benefit

It wouldnt make sense for us to keep unemployed foreigners here

The issue is that you sounded very glad that SG did not achieved its procreation targets 20~30 yrs ago. If we do have the critical mass to match the 5mil today, you probably take your stinky business outside of Singapore (how I wish).

 

To you everything is about money. I also ask you to take off your Money infested Specs to see the environment around you.

 

The stark reality you said is out there is simply because of people like you existing to take advantage of the system to achieve your selfish goals.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Tigerwoods

[Duckduck]

During the last major recessions in 1985, 1997 and 2001-2003, foreigners leaving and not coming make up the largest contribution to the fall in population growth.

 

 

yup n thats y WKS open the door in 2003, but forgot to shut it in 2007.

[Civic2000]

He is definitely a loyal member of P@P. He speaks like those Ministers, warning people not to risk loosing good government, and of course he is referring to P@P Gahman. I have heard enough from the ministers and P@P MPs, there is no need for him to repeat the same thing here.

[Felipe]

During the last major recessions in 1985, 1997 and 2001-2003, foreigners leaving and not coming make up the largest contribution to the fall in population growth.

 

 

i dont have the stats but i think in the earlier recessions, the FT were perhaps different from what we have now.

[Felipe]

The issue is that you sounded very glad that SG did not achieved its procreation targets 20~30 yrs ago. If we do have the critical mass to match the 5mil today, you probably take your stinky business outside of Singapore (how I wish).

 

To you everything is about money. I also ask you to take off your Money infested Specs to see the environment around you.

 

The stark reality you said is out there is simply because of people like you existing to take advantage of the system to achieve your selfish goals.

 

yea, he probably isn't aware of the stats. how is a depression of median income a sign that the govt's role is to take care of S'poreans first?

[CKP]

i dont have the stats but i think in the earlier recessions, the FT were perhaps different from what we have now.

 

In terms of nationality, defintely more from MY and HK back in the 80s amd 90s.

 

That said, I believe most of those who left during the past recessions were the short term non resident workforce, mostly from third world countries.

 

Edited September 8, 2011 by CKP

[Duckduck]

In terms of nationality, defintely more from MY and HK back in the 80s amd 90s.

 

That said, I believe most of those who left during the past recessions were the short term non resident workforce, mostly from third world countries.

 

 

many expats left too becoz back then USA was doing fine, thats orchard rd area prices also down

[Pchmj]

i dont have the stats but i think in the earlier recessions, the FT were perhaps different from what we have now.

 

Last time it's either workers or talents. Workers leave because no job for them, talents leave because they have better opportunity elsewhere. Those who 'fight' for jobs with locals is mainly from msia, how many from other asia countries? Msians can always take a bus go back, wait for recession to be over, come again.

 

Now, they infiltrate every sector, from entry to professional levels, in large numbers, from a large diversity of background.

[Tigerwoods]

He is definitely a loyal member of P@P. He speaks like those Ministers, warning people not to risk loosing good government, and of course he is referring to P@P Gahman. I have heard enough from the ministers and P@P MPs, there is no need for him to repeat the same thing here.

He kept telling everyone wake up to the reality, no money no talk, Money makes the world go round,

If there is more money to make by employing 100% cheaper Foreigners he will be 1st in line...

The display of his character here in MCF (if real) makes me wonder where is his soul and you can't depend on him to be the kind samaritan...

[CKP]

So where do we stand?

 

How many more immigrants are we taking in from now till then?

 

This is a hard question our top dogs have to answer and will no longer be based on cold hard "end-justify-means" old way of doing things purely from economic sense of achieving an attractive GDP.

 

 

PAP is just using as an excuse aging and declining population to EXPAND and INCREASE population.

 

It is possible to adjust immigration such that total population is kept more or less the same.

 

However, the situation in Singapore is around 1 million new inhabitants added every 10 years since around 1990.

 

That's a shocking annualized population growth at 2.5 to 3%. Now just imagine almost every other advanced country on Earth, with more land than Singapore, has a much smaller population growths of 0.5 to 1.0% on average.

 

If you stripped the components of the 2.5-3% population growth in Singapore, the citizen population growth is around +/-1% annualized but non citizens at about 9% growth.

 

Very shocking with the record of PAP on population.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2011 by CKP

[Kyrios]

yes

 

they are on EP or WP, so naturally if their companies struggle and cant keep them they have to leave singapore. Unlike citizens or PRs* who if get laid off can stay without a job (for 3 years)

 

You can mass import people and there is always job for them so long as they are asking for much lower salaries than a sinkee.

End of the day, local workers still suffer.

not true. FTs can only come into singapore if they have a job. if they lose their job they have to leave. having a heap of non working fts here achieves nothing (unless they are spending heaps of their money = tourists)

 

Haha..beri obvious choice right..just lay off the singaporean worker who is deemed more expensive and keep the FT worker on WP lor..they dun lose their jobs so they have no need to leave..

 

The laid off singaporean worker meanwhile .. jumps off a building as he cant feed his family anymore..and our country's wealth is remitted to other countries...by the FTs as their salaries...

 

Then I might have to quote Optimus Prime in Transformers..: "I RISE.........YOU FALL!!" (FTs rise..SG citizens fall..)

 

[CKP]

He kept telling everyone wake up to the reality, no money no talk, Money makes the world go round,

If there is more money to make by employing 100% cheaper Foreigners he will be 1st in line...

The display of his character here in MCF (if real) makes me wonder where is his soul and you can't depend on him to be the kind samaritan...

 

For all you know "badder" may not be that a "bad" guy but chose the name "Badder" to act out his alter ego.

 

[Tigerwoods]

PAP is just using as an excuse aging and declining population to EXPAND and INCREASE population.

It is possible to adjust immigration such that total population is kept more or less the same.

However, the situation in Singapore is around 1 million new inhabitants added every 10 years since around 1990.

That's a shocking annualized population growth at 2.5 to 3%. If you stripped the components of growth, citizen population growth is around +/-1% annualized but non citizens at about 9% growth.

Now just imagine almost every other advanced country on Earth, with more land than Singapore, has a much smaller population growths of 0.5 to 1.0% on average.

Very shocking with the record of PAP on population.

 

SG needs the critical mass to have continued growth. Like it or not, the gates are opened for the 60k/year entry.

We as stakeholders of this country cannot sit and do nothing. We need to procreate more and more.

Don't you know ? If you throw a stone in Orchard road, you have 50% chance hitting Non-local ? Yes its that bad...

[CKP]

yup n thats y WKS open the door in 2003, but forgot to shut it in 2007.

 

Actually, I looked at the statistics and the door actually opened around 1980.

 

Foreigners have been coming in at around 9% population growth rates but it was a small population base (~14% of total population were non citizens in 1980) in the 1980s so most of us did not noticed.

 

Fast forward to 2010, at 40% foreign citizen population... people started to noticed but actually the floodgates were opened back in 1980s.

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2011 by CKP

[CKP]

SG needs the critical mass to have continued growth. Like it or not, the gates are opened for the 60k/year entry.

We as stakeholders of this country cannot sit and do nothing. We need to procreate more and more.

Don't you know ? If you throw a stone in Orchard road, you have 50% chance hitting Non-local ? Yes its that bad...

 

Well, have you asked where you get the term "critical mass"?

 

Is there really such thing as a critical mass?

 

I doubt think so because around 5 out of the top 20 richest country in the world (based on GDP per capita) has a population of less than 500K (luxembourg) to 36K (monaco).

 

 

 

 

 

[Tigerwoods]

Actually, I looked at the statistics and the door actually opened around 1980.

 

Foreigners have been coming in at around 9% population growth rates but it was a small population base (~14%) in the 1980s so most of us did not noticed.

 

Fast forward to 2010, at 40% foreign citizen population... people started to noticed but actually the floodgates were opened back in 1980s.

 

Most of them are Malaysians in the 80s.