CNA:Low Fert. Rate, No Immigration'll Lead To Pop. Decline

[Bystander50]

because we didnt have the jobs then. we do now. you want them to import people with no job to do??

 

 

we dont want to increase our population - what we want to do is increase our population of workers or future workers

 

What happens in a recession? Is there a law that says foreigners will be the first to go in such a situation?

You can mass import people and there is always job for them so long as they are asking for much lower salaries than a sinkee.

End of the day, local workers still suffer.

 

And what makes you think that these mass imports will not given PRs eventually?

If based on your point we just want to increase our population of workers, then is ICA willing to set a quota of say only 1k PRs to be granted annually?

Over the last 10 years, I wonder what is the number of PRs given out to these people each year.

 

 

[Bystander50]

what oversight?

 

 

they knew over 10 years ago that we needed to increase the population.

 

 

They introduced baby incentives when we didnt have the new jobs

 

They imported staff when we did

 

 

We had a number of recessions in between.

 

They are not going to import FTS untill we have the JOBs for them to do

...obviously!

 

in the last few years we have seen the boost in jobs that they predicted - so now is the time to import

 

Let's look back to the 70s. Who introduced the Stop At 2 policy?

Now that the government is complaining about low fertility rate, do they dare blame the one who came up with this failed policy?

We'll somehow have an exponential growth in population. On average if ur parents have 3-4 kids, and our generation each have another 2-3 each, we can expect at least 12 more new kids from each generation.

 

 

 

[Tigerwoods]

enjoy:

 

 

http://www.impactlab.net/2010/08/03/2010-w...rdizes-elderly/

 

 

 

"There are two major trends in world population today,

Edited September 8, 2011 by Tigerwoods

[Badder]

What happens in a recession? Is there a law that says foreigners will be the first to go in such a situation?

yes

 

they are on EP or WP, so naturally if their companies struggle and cant keep them they have to leave singapore. Unlike citizens or PRs* who if get laid off can stay without a job (for 3 years)

 

You can mass import people and there is always job for them so long as they are asking for much lower salaries than a sinkee.

End of the day, local workers still suffer.

not true. FTs can only come into singapore if they have a job. if they lose their job they have to leave. having a heap of non working fts here achieves nothing (unless they are spending heaps of their money = tourists)

And what makes you think that these mass imports will not given PRs eventually?

nothing, so whats your point?

 

If based on your point we just want to increase our population of workers, then is ICA willing to set a quota of say only 1k PRs to be granted annually?

Over the last 10 years, I wonder what is the number of PRs given out to these people each year.

they set a quoata every year for the max number of passes they will process. its up to industry that have jobs they need filling to apply for each FT. No job, no application, no FT.

 

 

 

[Tigerwoods]

one way of looking at it is this

 

 

if they had managed to ecourage singaporeans to copulate more 20 or 30 years ago our economy would have been in really deep trouble during the last two recessions with a large amount of unemployed. Instead our (singaporeans) unemployment rate didnt change much

 

As it was we were/are in that marvelous position where we could in times of recession jeteson anyone we dont need when we dont need then (Fts and FWs)

 

Growing local population is long term goal but short term it may have been kinda lucky we didnt have them during last 10 years......

I don't agree with this view. In fact it is sick.

Recession or no recession, I would rather stick it out rather than purging away FTs when we don't need them.

 

Don't treat a country like your Company.. FTs or Sgeans, we are Human beings.

[Badder]

Let's look back to the 70s. Who introduced the Stop At 2 policy?

Now that the government is complaining about low fertility rate, do they dare blame the one who came up with this failed policy?

We'll somehow have an exponential growth in population. On average if ur parents have 3-4 kids, and our generation each have another 2-3 each, we can expect at least 12 more new kids from each generation.

 

in the past we didnt need people.

 

Then we did.

 

We had baby incentives when we did.

 

 

 

Then we got hit by two recessions. Recessions tend to always come hand in had with a drop in birth rates.

We saw that here.

 

So in effect we are seeing a knock on effect of at least 2 very unforseable recessions effecting birth rates combined with world wide drop in birthrates and increase in life expectancy combined with unpresidented high growth rates.

 

Its a little unfair to blame the gov fully....but I get thats the style here

 

 

 

[Badder]

I would rather stick it out rather than purging away FTs when we don't need them.

but.....but....we DO need them.....they are all working. They are all contributing.

Don't treat a country like your Company.. FTs or Sgeans, we are Human beings.

see this is where people like you get it wrong.

 

 

A country is a company. absolutely no difference.

 

 

you find that offensive because you live in dream land.

 

a country is no different from a well managed company with a caring boss - no different

 

 

Go live in a country with poor economics and tell me how it is to be a human being there

 

 

No industry, no money, no road, no security, no safety - everything is effected by money

 

 

its ugly but its the reality. i suggest you take off your rose coloured specticals. the world you want to live in DOESNT exist. because its a fantasy

 

 

Singapore gov job is to look after SINGAPOREANS. That means when we need FTs we can bring them in. They benefit and we benefit.

 

If the worse happens and jobs are lost the FTs who lose their jobs have to leave. This is only right i think. of course nobody wants that and i doubt anyone employs FTs because they have to leave if they lose their job (afterall that doesnt benefit the employer in anyway) but from a gov perspective the ability to bring in people when you need them and 'naturally' get rid of them when you dont (when the jobs are lost) is undeniably a benefit

 

It wouldnt make sense for us to keep unemployed foreigners here

Edited September 8, 2011 by Badder

[Felipe]

even if they did that and did something to improve - it wont help.

 

even if everyone started to make babies today

 

it takes 20 years to make a new employee. we dont have 20years our industry need people now our economy needs people now.

 

i agree we have to do something to improve the route of the problem - but until we solve our own childbirth rates we need to rely on imports.

 

then there's a price to pay. for eg, local wages will be depressed as there's no minimum wage structure here. Employers will go for cheaper FT. Your houses will be more ex. Your streets, MRT, will be more cramp. One thing's for sure. GDP will increase, in tandem with our ministers' salaries.

[Felipe]

working people pay tax and create wealth that the gov can use to look after the elderly that have been abandoned by their children

 

 

working people support the economy and part of that is used for old people subsidies

 

govt look after the old here??? judging by the number of old folks cleaning toilets and foodcourts, i doubt any of my paid taxes are going to help them.

[Felipe]

im curious

 

 

how is life here tough?

 

 

housing is more affordable than comparable countries (as is evident by the fact we have highest home ownership in the world)

 

Compare to comparable cities. In HK you would be living in a very expensive cupboard, In Japan your would have maybe 2 rooms and a bathroom max. Forget anything as nice as a 3 room HDB. In london a shoe box.

 

We have an excellant schooling system, we have low crime, low unemployment, great weather, nice greenery

 

 

Just what the hell is tough about living in singapore???

 

 

You want to talk about working hours? Forget it. In japan a typical day is min 10hrs and most young do 12. and they are far far worse off that young in singapore

 

 

tough? your just spoilt

 

In HK, there's China for them to look at. In Japan, there are other cities besides the congested Tokyo. In SG, we have none. You're not making a fair comparison here.

 

And I believe there are at least 10 other democratic countries to look at, but i guess you really have low expectations.

[Felipe]

lol you are kidding me right?

 

CPF is a excellent system but how many retirees really have enough left when they retire after housing etc?

 

 

very very few. Most still rely on their kids to supplement. those without kids have to rely on gov

 

and that's when the burden will fall on their children. pity the kids.

[Felipe]

one way of looking at it is this

 

 

if they had managed to ecourage singaporeans to copulate more 20 or 30 years ago our economy would have been in really deep trouble during the last two recessions with a large amount of unemployed. Instead our (singaporeans) unemployment rate didnt change much

 

As it was we were/are in that marvelous position where we could in times of recession jeteson anyone we dont need when we dont need then (Fts and FWs)

 

Growing local population is long term goal but short term it may have been kinda lucky we didnt have them during last 10 years......

 

wouldn't it be the same problem if all the FT come in and go jobless in recession? u think the FT will cope better than the locals? they might even tear this country apart as they've nothing to lose.

[Acemundo]

The money is never able to meet the expenses.

Gov give money, straightaway the childcare centers start increasing their rates. End of the day, it's back to square one.

 

second this. the way the child care centres priced their service confirms that they are only the sole recipient of the government subsidizies.

 

example, free lance nannies charge 500-700 per month. infant care centres charge 1200 per month less 600 mcys subsidiy is 600 per month, eerily close to the rate free lance nannies charge.

 

where did the subsidies go? the corporate childcare centres' pockets.

[Duckduck]

if the next generation are mostly imported FTs, then wats the point of the current citizens working so hard? Its as if we're working for the future of these migrants!

 

As garmen doesnt want to address the problem but instead keep importing, then we r building the foundation for migrants next time!

[Pchmj]

wouldn't it be the same problem if all the FT come in and go jobless in recession? u think the FT will cope better than the locals? they might even tear this country apart as they've nothing to lose.

 

Strange if someone think during recession FT will go away. I don't see the reason for companies to hire locals in recession. Companies want to cut costs. FT will always be cheaper, if locals can take pay cut 10%, I'm sure FT will be more than willing to do it at 15% pay cut with additional work load.

[Scion]

i strongly suspect this badder is MBT's son

[Felipe]

if the next generation are mostly imported FTs, then wats the point of the current citizens working so hard? Its as if we're working for the future of these migrants!

 

As garmen doesnt want to address the problem but instead keep importing, then we r building the foundation for migrants next time!

 

The future of migrants (other than those who convert to become citizens here) is basically a retirement back in their homeland. so as Sporeans, we may find ourselves competing with population renewal each time. And this new population may have no interest at all in this nation other than to make a living and go home.

 

and it's laughable that a professor's findings can suggest that the increase in migrants would contribute to a better a life for the aged. It's never been this govt's policy to take care of the old and i don't see it happening in the future when things get even harder.

 

It's like the OS in a PC. After some time of using it, the files get corrupted and old. Just do a system reboot and reload OS. This will be cycle for many years to come as long as the same govt remains in power. Congrats to the 60% who have made their choice.

[Felipe]

Strange if someone think during recession FT will go away. I don't see the reason for companies to hire locals in recession. Companies want to cut costs. FT will always be cheaper, if locals can take pay cut 10%, I'm sure FT will be more than willing to do it at 15% pay cut with additional work load.

 

tats y WP during the GE rally said the influx of foreigners have contributed to a depression of wages, while a surge in GDP which benefits the top 10% earners of this country. but i doubt many bothered to listen to WP, judging by the votes.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Felipe