Solve This P6 Maths Question Within 5 Minutes...

[Vulcann]

Frankly reading and trying to understand the maths problem stated in the ST Forum letter already took me 1 1/2 minutes and to solve within another 3 1/2 minutes without using simultaneous equation is beyond my capability.

 

Are you able to solve it within 5 minutes?

 

Just glad that I was born many moons back and not have to face this type of maths question nowadays...

 

Can understand this dad's frustration and hope that I will not pose a similar question to the authorities when my children faces such a situation in the future...

 

From ST Forum:

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Online...ory_710009.html

 

Don't hurt pupils' self-esteem with tough questions

 

Published on Sep 7, 2011

 

AS A PARENT, I wonder whether some teachers who set exam papers are really interested in gauging the ability of pupils. Sometimes it seems as though they are simply intent on making life miserable for them.

 

Take a look at this maths question in a recently concluded Primary 6 preliminary exam:

 

'Three halls contained 9,876 chairs altogether. One-fifth of the chairs were transferred from the first hall to the second hall. Then, one-third of the chairs were transferred from the second hall to the third hall and the number of chairs in the third hall doubled. In the end, the number of chairs in the three halls became the same. How many chairs were in the second hall at first?'

 

I challenge readers to solve this problem in five minutes, which is all the time a Primary 6 pupil has to do it.

 

I challenge school principals to do it, without the help of equations, which Primary 6 pupils aren't equipped with yet.

 

Setting such difficult questions serves no educational purpose - it only undermines the pupils' self-esteem.

 

Stephen Lin

[Identiti]

tried to read the question and I almost fall asleep lol.

 

anyway since I had nothing better to do I decided to attempt this question, tbh I did complete it within 5 mins but spent a min or so sending smses and I admit I used it with calculator.

 

9876 / 3 = 3292

hall 3 initial chairs = 3292 / 2 = 1646

1646 (1/3) chairs were transferred from hall 2 to hall 3.

1646 x 3 = 4938 (number of chairs in hall 2 after hall 1 transferred chairs to hall 2)

number of chairs transferred from hall 1 to hall 2 = 3292 / 4 = 823

so number of chairs in hall 2 initially = 4938 - 823 = 4115

 

I hope I am right here, too long didn't attempt any maths question. but I guess for a primary 6 student shouldn't be that hard right? since from what I know, children nowadays are studying things that are harder than the past.

[Nightsky]

Working backwards method, can be solved with fraction/ratio.

 

To be honest, this isn't considered a 'difficult' 5 mark question, in some schools its only worth 3 or 4 marks

 

In any case Identiti, calculators are allowed for PSLE Paper 2

[Mazdaowner]

  On 9/6/2011 at 10:58 PM, Vulcann said:

Frankly reading and trying to understand the maths problem stated in the ST Forum letter already took me 1 1/2 minutes and to solve within another 3 1/2 minutes without using simultaneous equation is beyond my capability.

 

Are you able to solve it within 5 minutes?

 

Just glad that I was born many moons back and not have to face this type of maths question nowadays...

 

Can understand this dad's frustration and hope that I will not pose a similar question to the authorities when my children faces such a situation in the future...

 

From ST Forum:

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Online...ory_710009.html

 

Don't hurt pupils' self-esteem with tough questions

 

Published on Sep 7, 2011

 

AS A PARENT, I wonder whether some teachers who set exam papers are really interested in gauging the ability of pupils. Sometimes it seems as though they are simply intent on making life miserable for them.

 

Take a look at this maths question in a recently concluded Primary 6 preliminary exam:

 

'Three halls contained 9,876 chairs altogether. One-fifth of the chairs were transferred from the first hall to the second hall. Then, one-third of the chairs were transferred from the second hall to the third hall and the number of chairs in the third hall doubled. In the end, the number of chairs in the three halls became the same. How many chairs were in the second hall at first?'

 

I challenge readers to solve this problem in five minutes, which is all the time a Primary 6 pupil has to do it.

 

I challenge school principals to do it, without the help of equations, which Primary 6 pupils aren't equipped with yet.

 

Setting such difficult questions serves no educational purpose - it only undermines the pupils' self-esteem.

 

Stephen Lin

 

I farking gave up. Honest. The teacher who gave this is a b------d. :(

[Wind30]

  On 9/6/2011 at 11:11 PM, Identiti said:

tried to read the question and I almost fall asleep lol.

 

anyway since I had nothing better to do I decided to attempt this question, tbh I did complete it within 5 mins but spent a min or so sending smses and I admit I used it with calculator.

 

9876 / 3 = 3292

hall 3 initial chairs = 3292 / 2 = 1646

1646 (1/3) chairs were transferred from hall 2 to hall 3.

1646 x 3 = 4938 (number of chairs in hall 2 after hall 1 transferred chairs to hall 2)

number of chairs transferred from hall 1 to hall 2 = 3292 / 4 = 823

so number of chairs in hall 2 initially = 4938 - 823 = 4115

 

I hope I am right here, too long didn't attempt any maths question. but I guess for a primary 6 student shouldn't be that hard right? since from what I know, children nowadays are studying things that are harder than the past.

 

ya lah. I think this question is quite simple. Might not need five minutes.

[Nightsky]

Three halls contained 9,876 chairs altogether. One-fifth of the chairs were transferred from the first hall to the second hall. Then, one-third of the chairs were transferred from the second hall to the third hall and the number of chairs in the third hall doubled. In the end, the number of chairs in the three halls became the same. How many chairs were in the second hall at first?

 

Number of Chairs in Hall 1, 2 and 3 in the end = 3292

 

Number of Chairs in Hall 3 originally = Half of in the end (since it doubled) = 3292/2 = 1646

 

Return 1646 chairs back to Hall 2

 

Hall 2 now has 2/3 of it's current chairs, since 1/3 = 1646, 3/3 = 1646 x 3 = 4938

 

Now, the current situation is Hall 3 = 1646, Hall 2 = 4938, which leaves Hall 1 with 3292 chairs (9876 - 4938 - 1646 = 3292, Total Unchanged)

 

Hall 1 = 4/5 of original, hence taking back it's 1/5 chairs from Hall 2 = (3292 / 4) = 823

 

Hall 2 returns 823 chairs to Hall 1, Hall 2 is left with 4938 - 823 = 4115 chairs

 

Identiti is correct.

[SimonTan]

The bold statement is hard to digest by me let along primary six.

 

Divide by 4 to get the one fifth number is not logical to student, since it skipped one step.

 

It's more clear if you say 3292 is the remaining 4/5, after removing 1/5 to hall2.

To get the original number chairs in hall1.

3292*5/4 = 4115 chairs.

and 1/5 of 4115 is = 4115 / 5 = 823.

 

 

 

  On 9/6/2011 at 11:28 PM, Nightsky said:

Number of Chairs in Hall 1, 2 and 3 in the end = 3292

Number of Chairs in Hall 3 originally = Half of in the end (since it doubled) = 3292/2 = 1646

Return 1646 chairs back to Hall 2

Hall 2 now has 2/3 of it's current chairs, since 1/3 = 1646, 3/3 = 1646 x 3 = 4938

Now, the current situation is Hall 3 = 1646, Hall 2 = 4938, which leaves Hall 1 with 3292 chairs (9876 - 4938 - 1646 = 3292, Total Unchanged)

 

Hall 1 = 4/5 of original, hence taking back it's 1/5 chairs from Hall 2 = (3292 / 4) = 823

Hall 2 returns 823 chairs to Hall 1, Hall 2 is left with 4938 - 823 = 4115 chairs

Identiti is correct.

 

[Nightsky]

  On 9/7/2011 at 12:10 AM, SimonTan said:

The bold statement is hard to digest by me let along primary six.

 

Divide by 4 to get the one fifth number is not logical to student, since it skipped one step.

 

It's more clear if you say 3292 is the remaining 4/5, after removing 1/5 to hall2.

To get the original number chairs in hall1.

3292*5/4 = 4115 chairs.

and 1/5 of 4115 is = 4115 / 5 = 823.

 

Please, give more credit to the P6 students. They've seen, and gone through, far more shittier question types than this.

 

Trust me, they know how to do one la.. Is the father who wrote in that dunno how to do!

[KARTer]

OMG, early morning brain kena torture.............

 

  On 9/6/2011 at 10:58 PM, Vulcann said:

Frankly reading and trying to understand the maths problem stated in the ST Forum letter already took me 1 1/2 minutes and to solve within another 3 1/2 minutes without using simultaneous equation is beyond my capability.

 

Are you able to solve it within 5 minutes?

 

Just glad that I was born many moons back and not have to face this type of maths question nowadays...

 

Can understand this dad's frustration and hope that I will not pose a similar question to the authorities when my children faces such a situation in the future...

 

From ST Forum:

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Online...ory_710009.html

 

Don't hurt pupils' self-esteem with tough questions

 

Published on Sep 7, 2011

 

AS A PARENT, I wonder whether some teachers who set exam papers are really interested in gauging the ability of pupils. Sometimes it seems as though they are simply intent on making life miserable for them.

 

Take a look at this maths question in a recently concluded Primary 6 preliminary exam:

 

'Three halls contained 9,876 chairs altogether. One-fifth of the chairs were transferred from the first hall to the second hall. Then, one-third of the chairs were transferred from the second hall to the third hall and the number of chairs in the third hall doubled. In the end, the number of chairs in the three halls became the same. How many chairs were in the second hall at first?'

 

I challenge readers to solve this problem in five minutes, which is all the time a Primary 6 pupil has to do it.

 

I challenge school principals to do it, without the help of equations, which Primary 6 pupils aren't equipped with yet.

 

Setting such difficult questions serves no educational purpose - it only undermines the pupils' self-esteem.

 

Stephen Lin

[Friendstar]

Hey ts. Don't forget students at that level are conditioned and trained to do such questions.

They practiced similar questions non stop prior to their exams. And will most likely tackle them much quicker and faster than adults.

 

Dont underestimate the power of brain conditioning.

That's what many famous enrichment workshops impart.

 

Btw. I'm a father and I can solve this in less than 4 mins

[Evillusion]

  On 9/6/2011 at 11:19 PM, Mazdaowner said:

I farking gave up. Honest. The teacher who gave this is a b------d. :(

when teachers and their peers are ranked thru their kpi's this type of s--t happens! those at the top need to be ! gone are the days where teaching is a passion ! Those on top wants to be promoted to supersdcale so he pressures his direct subordinates and the pressure trickle down!

[SimonTan]

I agree these type of questions are being trained in schools now.

So the students are able to do it step by step.

 

But the factor is time pressure, this will Suss out the Cool & clever student, while the unsteady&smart will get eliminated.

Or the slow&smart will also get eliminated.

 

I guess EQ stability and calm mind also very important to the kids, need to train the mind to relax n don't panic.

 

Honestly five minutes per such questions are insufficient to read n much less understand and then answer.

 

[Joseph22]

i think the ST forum writer is very stupid, this are standard question we were ask during primary school time..

[Joseph22]

  On 9/7/2011 at 12:23 AM, SimonTan said:

I agree these type of questions are being trained in schools now.

So the students are able to do it step by step.

 

But the factor is time pressure, this will Suss out the Cool & clever student, while the unsteady&smart will get eliminated.

Or the slow&smart will also get eliminated.

 

I guess EQ stability and calm mind also very important to the kids, need to train the mind to relax n don't panic.

 

Honestly five minutes per such questions are insufficient to read n much less understand and then answer.

personal though, i dont think all question are like this. but the reader likely take out the most difficult one to kaopei. he forgot, we still need to filter out the best from the good student in PSLE.

 

Anyway, this question dont need equation, in fact equation make solving this question slower.

 

correct method as seen above is fraction, or diagram drawing.

[Vulcann]

  On 9/7/2011 at 12:17 AM, Friendstar said:

Hey ts. Don't forget students at that level are conditioned and trained to do such questions.

They practiced similar questions non stop prior to their exams. And will most likely tackle them much quicker and faster than adults.

 

Dont underestimate the power of brain conditioning.

That's what many famous enrichment workshops impart.

 

Btw. I'm a father and I can solve this in less than 4 mins

 

Which is why I qualify myself by saying I was lucky I was born many moons back so did not face these type of questions in my time which was in the 70s...

 

I guess it is a matter of conditioning like what you mentioned.

 

If these students are exposed to these type of questions and being trained to tackle them then to some of them could be just a piece of cake.

 

Others like myself who are a tad slower and weaker would have to play second fiddle to smarter folks not only in schools but also in society later.

 

Meritocracy right?

 

[The_Bear]

Why the hell do they need so many chairs for?

[Joseph22]

  On 9/7/2011 at 12:42 AM, Bavarian said:

Why the hell do they need so many chairs for?

er... exam??

[Watwheels]

  On 9/7/2011 at 12:26 AM, Joseph22 said:

i think the ST forum writer is very stupid, this are standard question we were ask during primary school time..

I think there's no need to call the parent stupid. It's just that the parent had a different format of education in the past. And not being able to help his/her kid is frustrating.