ST Forum Reader: Entry In U- Singaporeans Vs Foreigners

[Vulcann]

Almost 20 years ago while in U my poly classmates were already uneasy about foreign students (yes they were already admiting them then).

 

Poly grads those days have to work for a few years before being able to apply for U.

 

They really had to figh tooth & nail to gain entry into U so when they saw foreign students seemingly able to just apply and come in, it was a mixed feeling for them....

 

From ST Forum:

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/...ory_692867.html

 

The 'Singaporean first' myth

 

IN A recent lecture on higher education at Singapore Management University, Dr Tony Tan pointed out how crucial it is not to impede international talent from coming here.

 

He essentially voiced his preference for a 'Singaporeans first' policy for higher education, rather than 'Singaporeans only' ('Tony Tan: S'poreans first, but don't shut out talent'; yesterday).

 

While I agree with Dr Tan's dismissal of a 'Singaporeans only' tertiary landscape, I am befuddled by his perception that Singaporeans are demanding this.

 

On the contrary, what Singaporeans are infuriated by are government and local university measures that excessively favour foreign 'talent' for admission.

 

For example, the National University of Singapore (NUS) does not have a clearly defined way of calculating the admissions score for international students.

 

NUS assesses admission at its own discretion and on the students' past education transcripts.

 

Polytechnic students, on the other hand, are admitted based on a strictly defined admissions score, comprising 80 per cent polytechnic results and 20 per cent O-level results.

 

Obviously, polytechnic students who might have excelled in their studies, but who have done less than spectacularly in the O levels, are disadvantaged.

 

Does NUS consider a polytechnic education less rigorous?

 

In addition, most needy local students have had to seek financial refuge in loans and bursaries, both of which do not provide complete financial relief.

 

The less fortunate must juggle part-time work and university studies.

 

Contrast this situation to that of the foreign students: Financial aid for them does not only come in the shape of exclusive scholarships, but also in Education Ministry tuition grants.

 

The penalty for most of these students who can already afford the higher costs of overseas education? Working with a Singapore-registered company for three years.

 

Dr Tan said it is not easy to find the right balance.

 

For a start, apply greater selectivity for the ministry's tuition grants for foreign students.

 

Also, a clearly stipulated admissions determinant, which resembles the template imposed on Singaporeans, should be adopted.

 

While many recognise the advantages of having an international student body, resolutely doing so without selectivity is pointless.

 

Let those who cannot afford such an education prove their mettle, and those who can, rightfully pay for their fees.

 

Adam Liew

[Sosaria]

Ha ha ha... nowadays the younger gen are getting braver, and will question every silly statement that's made!

 

The reality on the ground is always very different from the ideal picture that the minister gets. I don't blame the top policy-makers actually. They come up with good policies, but it is the levels below, their lackeys, that screw up the implementation - ending up with unintended effects.

 

The top policy-makers should personally check on how well the implementation is done, rather than rely on feedback from their lackeys (who will not give them any bad news, of course).

 

Back to the topic, IMHO the reason that seemingly "easier" entry requirement and financial help given to foreign students who are apparently not-so-talented - is primarily to tempt them to come over here for studies and, hopefully, stay on to contribute. The powers-that-be worry that if more stringent requirement is placed on foreign students, then they might choose not to come at all. Which may be a good thing, really.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Sosaria

[SimonTan]

Good good.

With the internet....news and statistics can be easy to check.

I want more vocal students........to speak up.

 

[Shull]

A very good example. My brother who scored pretty well in his A levels (2 As and 1 B) is unable to get into NUS Chemical Engineering course. On the other hand, my mom's friend in Indonesia, her daughter can easily waltz into the same course in the same school purely based on her Indonesian high school certificate.

 

[Sosaria]

A very good example. My brother who scored pretty well in his A levels (2 As and 1 B) is unable to get into NUS Chemical Engineering course. On the other hand, my mom's friend in Indonesia, her daughter can easily waltz into the same course in the same school purely based on her Indonesian high school certificate.

 

Exactly as I said... Your brother 'bo pian', have to further study in singapore, whatever the course, and likely work in singapore anyway. Policy-makers thinking, "why bother spending resources on this guy who is already committed?"

 

Versus the indonesian, who may opt to further study in her country or later overseas, got to give her something to get her to come over to singapore, right?

 

IMHO, that's the kind of thinking that drives these policies.

[Funner]

admirable of the younger generation

they have started to GROW bola

[Jim]

There are two details missed out here.

 

There is a hard quota for the number of polytechnic students who can enter university. I think it was 5% and was later increased to 10%. So if you are competing against an especially outstanding cohort of polytechnic students in that year, you will have a harder time, even if your results are good.

 

In other words, working hard, doing well is not enough. You have to ensure your classmates do badly.

 

Then there is also a quota for foreign students that the universities must meet. It is 20%.

 

Given this quota, it is not hard to see that an outstanding polytechnic applicant may be rejected while an inferior foreign student may be accepted, but the education ministry can still tell you with a straight face that foreign students do not compete with local students for university places.

 

We can thank Tony Tan for this. He was the Minister overseeing tertiary studies in the 1990s when the foreign student target quota was created.

[Jasonjst]

Exactly as I said... Your brother 'bo pian', have to further study in singapore, whatever the course, and likely work in singapore anyway. Policy-makers thinking, "why bother spending resources on this guy who is already committed?"

 

Versus the indonesian, who may opt to further study in her country or later overseas, got to give her something to get her to come over to singapore, right?

 

IMHO, that's the kind of thinking that drives these policies.

 

They forget the this SG guy maybe ended up study in oversea do well and never return . So you are trading away a good "car" for a QQ car instead ?

[Kyrios]

My vote goes out to anyone but Tonnie Tarn...

[Playtime]

I belive Tony does have a point in saying we a small nation that needs to attract talent to punch above our weight, else we could easily end up as just another Batam or Penang..

 

However.... I think they have overdone the policy to the detriment of locals.

Instead of attracting talent to improve our nation, it has become attracting talent as a form of statistical excercise so the civil servants in charge of it can claim to have fufilled KPI... in the process sacrificing locals.

 

And the more they are seen as favoring foreigners, the less willing locals are to have more kids too.... then the civil servants will say need even more foreigners..... it will become a vicious cycle.

[Sosaria]

They forget the this SG guy maybe ended up study in oversea do well and never return . So you are trading away a good "car" for a QQ car instead ?

 

Yup, but it's a gamble. How many will do that - work and settle overseas? For locals, we have our families to think of... we are based here.

 

And we're not talking about guys who are unable to secure university course. This is about a local who gets into university, but maybe not quite his first choice course, and no scholarship. Will he stay on, complete the course, then continue to find job and work here?? Yes, very most likely.

[1fast1]

Yup, but it's a gamble. How many will do that - work and settle overseas?

 

LOTS of high flyers that I personally know. It's generally the lesser lights who tend to come back to "serve" this country.

 

[Jasonjst]

More and more Singaporean are moving out to nusajaya .. some even consider studying there , with so many universities coming out next few years. Hope they are not forcing everyone out of this place , with their pro FTs policies . Recently I see Singaporean as young as 20 plus staying in the neigbourhood .

 

Another British varsity in Iskandar

By Sharen Kaur

Published: 2011/07/20

 

 

It is learnt that Education@Iskandar Sdn Bhd, a unit of Iskandar Investment Bhd, is expected to sign a partnership agreement with Reading Business School soon.

 

 

Kuala Lumpur: Britain's University of Reading Business School is setting up a branch campus in EduCity in Iskandar Malaysia, Johor, for between RM150 million and RM200 million, sources familiar with the plan say.

 

This would make it the third education group from the UK to set up branches in Iskandar Malaysia, highlighting their confidence in growth in Asian markets.

 

To be known as University of Reading Iskandar, construction is due to start next year, said a source.

 

It is learnt that Education@Iskandar Sdn Bhd, a unit of Iskandar Investment Bhd (IIB), is expected to sign a partnership agreement with Reading Business School soon.

 

EduCity is the education hub of Iskandar Malaysia, comprising world-class multi-university campuses, international schools and colleges, as well as recreational facilities and accommodation for over 20,000 students.

 

Demand from foreign universities has been so strong that the allocated land for EduCity is fully occupied. But IIB has said it would provide more land for EduCity.

 

The others that have committed are Marlborough College, one of the UK's leading independent co-educational boarding schools, and Newcastle University Medical Malaysia (NUMed), which is being built for RM90 million and due for opening this year.

 

IIB did not respond to questions sent by Business Times.

 

Set up in 2001 and located in England, Reading Business School is the centre of the world's business research and teaching.

 

The global institution had said in April it is investigating the prospects to set up a branch campus in Malaysia.

 

This was after a discussion with Datuk Zakaria Sulong, the High Commissioner of Malaysia to the UK, and leading regional business representatives on the investment potential in Malaysia.

 

Talks were centred on investments in Malaysia and how students and graduates of Reading Business School will have good chance for work placements.

 

Besides Marlborough College and NUMed, the hub consists of the Netherlands' Dutch Maritime University, the RM300 million Management Development Institute of Singapore, and the S$82 million (RM203 million) Raffles University Iskandar by Singapore's Raffles Education Group.

Last edited by Jogs1; Yesterday at 06:46 AM.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Jasonjst

[Vulcann]

Ha ha ha... nowadays the younger gen are getting braver, and will question every silly statement that's made!

 

The reality on the ground is always very different from the ideal picture that the minister gets. I don't blame the top policy-makers actually. They come up with good policies, but it is the levels below, their lackeys, that screw up the implementation - ending up with unintended effects.

 

The top policy-makers should personally check on how well the implementation is done, rather than rely on feedback from their lackeys (who will not give them any bad news, of course).

 

Back to the topic, IMHO the reason that seemingly "easier" entry requirement and financial help given to foreign students who are apparently not-so-talented - is primarily to tempt them to come over here for studies and, hopefully, stay on to contribute. The powers-that-be worry that if more stringent requirement is placed on foreign students, then they might choose not to come at all. Which may be a good thing, really.

 

As far as I am concerned, education is right on the minds of everyone: students, parents and the government.

 

The new MOE minister has got tonnes of papers to go through and I do not envy him for it.

 

He has to streamline, change, improvise/improve, enhance or even eliminate previous policies to make it work in today's context.

 

Whatever he does or does not do, it will have a tremendous impact on all the stakeholders.

 

On a personal note, I hope that my kids will truly benefit from whatever policies that is gona be tweaked or introduced.

 

Let's wait and see....

[Jasonjst]

As far as I am concerned, education is right on the minds of everyone: students, parents and the government.

 

The new MOE minister has got tonnes of papers to go through and I do not envy him for it.

 

He has to streamline, change, improvise/improve, enhance or even eliminate previous policies to make it work in today's context.

 

Whatever he does or does not do, it will have a tremendous impact on all the stakeholders.

 

On a personal note, I hope that my kids will truly benefit from whatever policies that is gona be tweaked or introduced.

 

Let's wait and see....

 

What stake do these ministars have ? They screw up , they collect their millions dollar pension and become ministers without pofolio can liao ! Our kids wont be so lucky , maybe got to become maid in foreign countries like what they said earlier ..

All the ministars always say Singaporean first in public , but did you guys really feel that they are taking good care of us and our childrens ?

 

Edited July 21, 2011 by Jasonjst

[Vulcann]

What stake do these ministars have ? They screw up , they collect their millions dollar pension and become ministers without pofolio can liao ! Our kids wont be so lucky , maybe got to become maid in foreign countries like what they said earlier ..

All the ministars always say Singaporean first in public , but did you guys really feel that they are taking good care of us and our childrens ?

 

Frankly we are at their mercy for every day of the 5 years except that one day only that we can call the shots.

 

You are right to say that because if they scr*w up, ours & our children's lives will be scr*wed.

 

I have long given up on them on many things except in education which will affect my kids' future so I sincerely hope that they are sincere this time.

 

I hope...

Edited July 21, 2011 by Vulcann

[Falcon1668]

What stake do these ministars have ? They screw up , they collect their millions dollar pension and become ministers without pofolio can liao ! Our kids wont be so lucky , maybe got to become maid in foreign countries like what they said earlier ..

All the ministars always say Singaporean first in public , but did you guys really feel that they are taking good care of us and our childrens ?

wa lau, still can believe what those blood suckers say?

I will only trust them IF they work their ass off for an annual salary of S$300k net

[Tonyng]

 

Just as they miscalculated COEs, HDB BTOs, ditto university places.

 

The difference - time frame too long, local U rejects just start work or parents sponsor, got some complaints here and there but no organized lobby.

 

Sigh.