Singapore likely to hire 60k Indian pros in 2011

[OmOm]

The way I write reflects the mindset that I have when I put together a piece of writing. It is to express the beliefs that I have in a systematic and organised manner. I could choose to neglect basic sentence construction, grammar and spelling but that does not gel with my personal principles of doing my best in every aspect of daily living including crafting my posts online.

 

Today the world is connected by technology. You can make a Facebook posting in one part of the world and immediately someone else at the other end of the world is able to view your writings. Our pace of living is not determined by the Singapore government alone. It is the outcome that arises from the culmination of global factors. That is the price that we pay for being so connected to the rest of the globe.

 

The need for these foreign workers is temporary. Just as the majority of them view our country as a stepping stone, so too we are using them as the same. They are necessary for us to move into the next phase of Singapore's growth. We need to reach a critical mass where our branding is concerned. Once we achieve that critical mass, the strategy that we can adopt at that point in time will be less dependent on the influx of low and mid-level foreign workers. Our filter will then be tuned to the higher end of the spectrum, focusing on letting only foreign talent who are highly qualified as well as High Net-Worth Individuals (HNWIs).

 

The gameplay by then (if ever we reach it within the next twenty years) will be very different.

 

bro....the way you talk like writing university Final year project thesis leh..... can talk more straight forward or not???

 

salary is all about demand verus supply...if employer can pay $5k because cheaper foreigners can accept them....

Because our great government in their great foresight failed to see that opening the flood gate simply allows all these third world pinoys/burma/indian engineers with third world working experience depressing singaporeans salary......

 

Good luck to our children, next time degree holders salary only $2k, 7 days week, 6 months contract as the million of third world foreign workers are available in the supply....

 

It is disgusting to see our great and beautiful country degraded due to all these floods of foreigners.....

 

[Axela72]

It is important to put oneself in the shoes of a foreign investor. What do you look for when you put in an investment? Naturally you are looking at getting financial returns from what you put in. The parameters for investment attractiveness are therefore costs, revenue and margins - essentially:

 

a. minimise costs

b. maximise revenue

c. maximise margins

 

Foreign investors have the world (literally and figuratively) to choose from when it comes to selecting sites to host their businesses. Ultimately if Filipinos/Burmese/Indian workers are able to provide similar services at lower cost, and if we shut our doors to the influx of such foreign workers, the cost of doing business in Singapore would be much higher for these investors, eating into their financial bottomlines. By closing our doors to the foreign workers, we will inevitably cause an exodus of such foreign investment.

 

Without a clear-cut advantage over the competition, Singapore will not stand a chance against countries whose people are willing to work harder for less remuneration. Today, the Singapore brand stands for something, the growth story carries some weight in drawing foreign investment. If this growth story is no longer valid, why would any foreign investors still want to come in? They would rather direct their funds elsewhere where costs are lower and the opportunities for upside/positive returns are better.

 

If profit is so very important to the investor, why don't they simply go and set up business in the 3rd world country? If 3rd world country has the expertise available, with cheap land and worker and, better than Singapore Security, by all means they should go there to make money. It is not simply cheaper labour can do the job. Why dont the semicon set up all the foundry in China instead in Singapore? You never know when will the government change their rule there. How many foundry have setup there has failed?

 

On the other hand, if we trained the 3rd world country folks and when they earn and dig enough, they will bring back with them the knowledge/skill imparted, by then we may be making the mistake by giving them the opportunity to snatch aways our business.

 

 

[OmOm]

One of the reasons why investors are coming to Singapore is because the growth story is still valid and the risks involved are more contained. An analogy to this would be when you are purchasing a property. Would you choose to buy a property in a country where the risks of investment loss are mitigated compared to getting one where upside opportunities are better (lower costs) albeit at the expense of higher risks of total loss?

 

A large percentage of the foreign workers who are here will return to their home countries in time to come. To them Singapore is just a stepping stone. However, the strategy that we have also exploits this fact and uses these workers to attempt to achieve the critical mass needed to propel Singapore to another level of recognition on the world stage. Think McDonalds, HP, Apple and Google. Singapore as a brand needs to be as famous as these in order to become a planet of its own. Once that brand has been created, it will have its own gravity to draw investment, a virtuous (vicious?) cycle of invest, grow, invest, grow, and so on and so forth.

 

At present, we have not achieved that yet.

 

If profit is so very important to the investor, why don't they simply go and set up business in the 3rd world country? If 3rd world country has the expertise available, with cheap land and worker and, better than Singapore Security, by all means they should go there to make money. It is not simply cheaper labour can do the job. Why dont the semicon set up all the foundry in China instead in Singapore? You never know when will the government change their rule there. How many foundry have setup there has failed?

 

On the other hand, if we trained the 3rd world country folks and when they earn and dig enough, they will bring back with them the knowledge/skill imparted, by then we may be making the mistake by giving them the opportunity to snatch aways our business.

 

[Neoscan]

If profit is so very important to the investor, why don't they simply go and set up business in the 3rd world country? If 3rd world country has the expertise available, with cheap land and worker and, better than Singapore Security, by all means they should go there to make money. It is not simply cheaper labour can do the job. Why dont the semicon set up all the foundry in China instead in Singapore? You never know when will the government change their rule there. How many foundry have setup there has failed?

 

On the other hand, if we trained the 3rd world country folks and when they earn and dig enough, they will bring back with them the knowledge/skill imparted, by then we may be making the mistake by giving them the opportunity to snatch aways our business.

 

Bro...dun bother with this guy lah....

 

If you read thourgh the thread, 9 out of 10 guys dun agree with him, and most people reply until sian so they just ignore his rubbish theories....

 

We got better things to do than spend our precious after work time, debating with him.......

Edited May 23, 2011 by Neoscan

[Kiadaw]

Bro...dun bother with this guy lah....

 

If you read thourgh the thread, 9 out of 10 guys dun agree with him, and most people reply until sian so they just ignore his rubbish theories....

 

We got better things to do than spend our precious after work time, debating with him.......

Damn, & I thought I was the only one that feel this way.

[OmOm]

Well, I'm sharing my thoughts not for the sake of debating. Just thought that alternative perspectives would be helpful to some folks.

 

Have a great evening ahead!

 

Bro...dun bother with this guy lah....

 

If you read thourgh the thread, 9 out of 10 guys dun agree with him, and most people reply until sian so they just ignore his rubbish theories....

 

We got better things to do than spend our precious after work time, debating with him.......

 

[Albeniz]

I have no issues with employing good FTs to help us increase our competitive advantage and productivity.

I agree the good ones are essential. But the main concern is the number (and quality) of them. We need to ensure that the infrastructure(e.g housing and transport) is able to support such a big number before opening such flood gates.

 

We have come to a point that the PM came out to say "sorry"; MBT and Raymond Lim lost their jobs in the 2 infrastructure support ministries. It goes to show that that the infrastructure is not able to support such a heavy load now.

 

PS: Among the FTs I have worked together with, the Malaysians are the best. Get more of them here, if there is really, really, really a need to.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Albeniz

[Porche]

I have no issues with employing good FTs to help us increase our competitive advantage and productivity.

I agree the good ones are essential. But the main concern is the number (and quality) of them. We need to ensure that the infrastructure(e.g housing and transport) is able to support such a big number before opening such flood gates.

 

We have come to a point that the PM came out to say "sorry"; MBT and Raymond Lim lost their jobs in the 2 infrastructure support ministries. It goes to show that that the infrastructure is not able to support such a heavy load now.

 

PS: Among the FTs I have worked together with, the Malaysians are the best. Get more of them here, if there is really, really, really a need to.

 

Even the Malaysians r tulanz, now even indonesian, Burmese, Vietnamese also come. For one interview u may be competing with 6 or more. PRC, Pinoys, ah neh, Indonesian, Burmese and Vietnamese.

 

I worry for our kids, every year we r paying taxes. Part of it went to finance these ppl for free education, accomodation and allowances. But we still have to pay for our kids' education at their "subsidise rate". And University fees keep going up every year, for those for can afford the overseas education. Good for them, for those who can't. The kid will have to bear the loan from the Bank. Fish Ah Loong

[Albeniz]

Even the Malaysians r tulanz, now even indonesian, Burmese, Vietnamese also come. For one interview u may be competing with 6 or more. PRC, Pinoys, ah neh, Indonesian, Burmese and Vietnamese.

 

I worry for our kids, every year we r paying taxes. Part of it went to finance these ppl for free education, accomodation and allowances. But we still have to pay for our kids' education at their "subsidise rate". And University fees keep going up every year, for those for can afford the overseas education. Good for them, for those who can't. The kid will have to bear the loan from the Bank. Fish Ah Loong

 

If you are in the university canteen, you will see a lot of PRC students/staff. Some of them are not really that good but are still able to clinch a place in the university.

 

Many of our local poly guys who aren't in the top 5% can't get into our local university. They ended up having to fork out their own money to study in places like US, UK and Australia. Many came back with First Class honours (and that showed that they are really capable, just that they were not given the opportunity).

 

The univeristy should really consider letting more of our deserving local poly guys go to the univeristy.

 

We have a lot of PRC researchers/students, but look at the drastic drop in univeristy ranking (especially NTU, now is at 174th, see link below).

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/S...ory_579608.html

We are seeing such rankings we have not seen before! FTs are supposed to help us improve our competitveness, but we are seeing quite the contrary. Over the recent few years, it dropped from 50+ to 70+ and then 174th.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Albeniz

[Kkttt]

Just a thought many of my peers share: Why do we have to import so many "engineers"? Why can't we invest in training our next gen instead?

It's a common sight that the younger gen avoid engineering, or any work that involves getting their hands dirty. Everyone wants to be in the glamorous financial industry, otherwise they would want to be "managers". Nobody wants to do work, all only want to manage.

Whose fault is it? In our race to "move up the value chain", we deem doing actual work as a taboo and fresh grads avoid it like plague. Engineers are imported, locals are paid peanuts (not the NKF type), resulting in even less youngsters willing to learn. We get Comp Science attachment undergrads telling us they want to do sales, not programming.

 

Is this the right way forward? In the changing environment, can we always compete on cost? Taiwan was similar or less developed than us, they were doing a lot of cheap outsourced electronics stuff for the big brands (e.g. HTC for O2). But they realized the benefits of growing their local talents and building their own brands. They didn't blindly import cheaper people or dump these "low value" work. Now see how HTC has grown.

 

While we can berate locals for not improving themselves enough, perhaps we ought to take a step back and look at the overall picture here. Perhaps something right from the root has grown wrongly (i.e. education), resulting in generations of lost locals fighting a losing battle against cheap labour and profit orientated foreign investors.

[Neoscan]

Just a thought many of my peers share: Why do we have to import so many "engineers"? Why can't we invest in training our next gen instead?

It's a common sight that the younger gen avoid engineering, or any work that involves getting their hands dirty. Everyone wants to be in the glamorous financial industry, otherwise they would want to be "managers". Nobody wants to do work, all only want to manage.

Whose fault is it? In our race to "move up the value chain", we deem doing actual work as a taboo and fresh grads avoid it like plague. Engineers are imported, locals are paid peanuts (not the NKF type), resulting in even less youngsters willing to learn. We get Comp Science attachment undergrads telling us they want to do sales, not programming.

 

Is this the right way forward? In the changing environment, can we always compete on cost? Taiwan was similar or less developed than us, they were doing a lot of cheap outsourced electronics stuff for the big brands (e.g. HTC for O2). But they realized the benefits of growing their local talents and building their own brands. They didn't blindly import cheaper people or dump these "low value" work. Now see how HTC has grown.

 

While we can berate locals for not improving themselves enough, perhaps we ought to take a step back and look at the overall picture here. Perhaps something right from the root has grown wrongly (i.e. education), resulting in generations of lost locals fighting a losing battle against cheap labour and profit orientated foreign investors.

 

Not true...my friend graduate from NTU with electrical engineering degree and apply engineer job from major MNC also cannot get.

Because most of these MNC likes to go to indian, philipino to employ cheap university engineering graduates for $1.8k - $2k.

 

End up my friend unemployed for months, no choice work as sales personnel for banks....now working as crewing executive...

 

Very sad..... locals engineering graduates are deprive of these employment opportunity...all go to cheap foreigners ....

[Axela72]

Not true...my friend graduate from NTU with electrical engineering degree and apply engineer job from major MNC also cannot get.

Because most of these MNC likes to go to indian, philipino to employ cheap university engineering graduates for $1.8k - $2k.

 

End up my friend unemployed for months, no choice work as sales personnel for banks....now working as crewing executive...

 

Very sad..... locals engineering graduates are deprive of these employment opportunity...all go to cheap foreigners ....

 

So this is what OmOm supporting? To have more foreigner here so that it is more competitive and drive up our economy? And if our own kind can't find/loose out the job is because we are not working hard/ capable enough? In such scenario, we will end up hunger to death (if one is stubborn enough on insisting to get the right job without looking for other alternative like your friend) before we will be able to see the growth of Singapore. End of the day, influx of foreigner is benefiting to the minority of the rich or majority of the poor?

[OmOm]

The anger and frustration that you feel cloud your mind and until you clear that, it will not be possible for you to see how you can break the vicious cycle that you are presently in. Lament and complain about the environment, the government and everything else but these do not help you at all in your daily living and you know that.

 

Everyone of us has a choice.

 

Personally, I would spend time and effort to improve myself than to look for scapegoats and punching bags.

 

So this is what OmOm supporting? To have more foreigner here so that it is more competitive and drive up our economy? And if our own kind can't find/loose out the job is because we are not working hard/ capable enough? In such scenario, we will end up hunger to death (if one is stubborn enough on insisting to get the right job without looking for other alternative like your friend) before we will be able to see the growth of Singapore. End of the day, influx of foreigner is benefiting to the minority of the rich or majority of the poor?

 

[Pchmj]

The anger and frustration that you feel cloud your mind and until you clear that, it will not be possible for you to see how you can break the vicious cycle that you are presently in. Lament and complain about the environment, the government and everything else but these do not help you at all in your daily living and you know that.

 

Everyone of us has a choice.

 

Personally, I would spend time and effort to improve myself than to look for scapegoats and punching bags.

 

Not everyone can venture out a business like you. I do agree with many of your posts but not on this FT issues. Nobody will want the govt to shut our gates, but rather, have control on how many and who to bring in. Right now there is no limit, even for people with no skills, they can just come in to work. They fight with the locals for jobs by accepting lower pay, not because they have better skills than us. Our govt used to bring in them to fill up positions which we do not want. Now they are filling up every single position.

 

It's true finding locals is very hard for some positions. That's because our govt only think of GDP, expands economy rapidly, of course there won't be enough locals to fill up every position. I believe many locals rather have a slower growth and have a better quality of life. With the extremely strong economy, are the majority happier than 10 years ago? I know I'm not and I'm pissed off everyday when I step out of my house.

 

It's obvious majority are unhappy based on the GE results. Govt did extremely well in economy growth, so what? GDP is not everything.

[OmOm]

Thanks for your sharing.

 

I agree with what you have mentioned about having more stringent standards where the influx of foreign workers is concerned. In the ideal situation, only the jobs that the locals do not want should be opened up to foreigners. However, on the ground it is difficult to implement such a tight filter. On a macro-level, how should we determine which are jobs that are not interesting to locals and which are the ones that locals want? How do we work with companies of various sizes to cater to this spread of jobs?

 

The emphasis on the GDP is partly legacy in nature. It comes from a time when the nation was struggling to build up its reserves and economic growth was the key to our survival. It is probable that the policies have not changed swiftly enough to accommodate the new demographics and the requirements of the populace as a whole. To put it bluntly, our policies have painted ourselves into a corner. We are a nation that is used to cutting-edge technology and lifestyle but are unhappy with the price tag that comes with it.

 

How do we move forward? I think there will be a lot of pain that is inevitable. It will not be trivial to devise policies that can satisfy the various segments of the population, and on top of that steer the nation towards a future with sustainable growth.

 

Not everyone can venture out a business like you. I do agree with many of your posts but not on this FT issues. Nobody will want the govt to shut our gates, but rather, have control on how many and who to bring in. Right now there is no limit, even for people with no skills, they can just come in to work. They fight with the locals for jobs by accepting lower pay, not because they have better skills than us. Our govt used to bring in them to fill up positions which we do not want. Now they are filling up every single position.

 

It's true finding locals is very hard for some positions. That's because our govt only think of GDP, expands economy rapidly, of course there won't be enough locals to fill up every position. I believe many locals rather have a slower growth and have a better quality of life. With the extremely strong economy, are the majority happier than 10 years ago? I know I'm not and I'm pissed off everyday when I step out of my house.

 

It's obvious majority are unhappy based on the GE results. Govt did extremely well in economy growth, so what? GDP is not everything.

Edited May 24, 2011 by OmOm

[Scoots]

It is important to put oneself in the shoes of a foreign investor. What do you look for when you put in an investment? Naturally you are looking at getting financial returns from what you put in. The parameters for investment attractiveness are therefore costs, revenue and margins - essentially:

 

a. minimise costs

b. maximise revenue

c. maximise margins

 

Foreign investors have the world (literally and figuratively) to choose from when it comes to selecting sites to host their businesses. Ultimately if Filipinos/Burmese/Indian workers are able to provide similar services at lower cost, and if we shut our doors to the influx of such foreign workers, the cost of doing business in Singapore would be much higher for these investors, eating into their financial bottomlines. By closing our doors to the foreign workers, we will inevitably cause an exodus of such foreign investment.

 

Without a clear-cut advantage over the competition, Singapore will not stand a chance against countries whose people are willing to work harder for less remuneration. Today, the Singapore brand stands for something, the growth story carries some weight in drawing foreign investment. If this growth story is no longer valid, why would any foreign investors still want to come in? They would rather direct their funds elsewhere where costs are lower and the opportunities for upside/positive returns are better.

 

It is important to ground oneself to reality. What does ANYONE look for from working / investment? Getting the best deal.

 

Of course the emplyer will want to pay the cheapest for the best service; just as an employee will hope for the highest salary for the easiest of jobs.

 

But while rationalising the 'for' on the need to hire foreigners, it's still a biased argument without recognising the concerns of the other camp of 'nays'. Simply put... and another real fact: Singaporeans will eventually be the loser if we are to be competing on trying to be the cheapest. So that is not a viable option.

 

And while I do accept the natural economic forces at play in all this, I CANNOT accept that a country's government can/should be such that it's policies do not protect/favour it's citizens. It's only natural to expect that a country's government do what it can to take care of it's people (reasonably, legally and ethically of course) Just as you would expect a parent to love his/her own child over others'... no matter how naughty and ugly his/her own child is or how cute and addorable others' children are.

 

And the unhappiness is mainly over the over-importing of of cheaper labour that is

 

1. NOT talents (ie non of those expats/special skillsets that our country is lacking)

2. NOT mass labour (ie labour filling the manpower needs in industries that Singaporeans shun)

 

The unhappiness is directed to the influx of foreigners who

 

a. take up and lowers the market price of the jobs that Singaporeans want to do (eg: engineers/ sales/ IT...) but are being priced out

b. end up in hiring positions and tends to hire their fellow countrymen (I can confirm at least 1 such department in a MNC which has a plant in Tampines)

 

This is reality

Edited May 24, 2011 by Scoots

[OmOm]

The competition is not about being the cheapest but being the most cost-efficient. This means that there are two ends of the stick that we can work at. On one end, we can work towards increasing our ability to contribute to the economy and the value of our contributions. The other end sees us remaining stagnant where our contributions are concerned while lowering the cost of engagement of our services.

 

The drive towards national productivity is trying to accomplish the former. Unfortunately, the underlying meaning of that drive has been lost in translation.

 

How would you change the policies to favor our own people without reducing the competitiveness of the country as a whole?

 

It is important to ground oneself to reality. What do ANYONE look for from working / investment? Getting the best deal. essentially

 

Of course the emplyer will want to pay the cheapest cost for the best service; just as an employee will hope for the highest salary for the easiest of jobs.

 

So while rationalising the 'for' on the need to hire foreigners, it's still a biased argument without recognising the concerns of the other camp of 'nays'. Simply put... and another real fact: Singaporeans will eventually be the loser if we are to be competing on trying to be the cheapest. So that is not a viable option.

 

And while I do accept the natural economic forces at play in all this, I CANNOT accept that a country's government can/should be such that it's policies do not protect/favour it's citizens. It's only natural to expect that a country's government do what it can to take care of it's people (reasonably, legally and ethically of course) Just as you would expect a parent to love his/her own child over others'... no matter how naughty and ugly his/her own child is or how cute and addorable others' children are.

 

This is reality

 

[Scoots]

The competition is not about being the cheapest but being the most cost-efficient. This means that there are two ends of the stick that we can work at. On one end, we can work towards increasing our ability to contribute to the economy and the value of our contributions. The other end sees us remaining stagnant where our contributions are concerned while lowering the cost of engagement of our services.

 

The drive towards national productivity is trying to accomplish the former. Unfortunately, the underlying meaning of that drive has been lost in translation.

 

How would you change the policies to favor our own people without reducing the competitiveness of the country as a whole?

 

For one, stop selling ourselves short. We have to accept that we cannot compete on being the cheapest but, as you put it, the most "cost efficient".

 

Build up facilities/infrastructure that supports /encourages companys' operations.

Soundness and stability of policies that gives confidence to investors

Streamline operational red tape such that it facilitates business activities ... etc

 

Sell the OTHER strengths that we can offer over our competitors.... because, for certain, being the cheapest is NOT a 'strength' given the cost of living for the Singaporean in general.

 

And while you may say that the drive is "trying to accomplish the former". The reality is that the policies deployed and regulations adopted had only materialized in the 'latter'.

 

In short: the policy makers failed.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Scoots