It's all about properties

[Chengwh492]

smart!

 

actually if voting for opposition will crash the property market, alot of rich people will vote for them hehe.

because it will mean its time to buy another unit ;)

 

[Shicyj]

He is a MIW lackey lah... someone said he is a Deputy Director from PUB

 

http://www.todayonline.com/Voices/EDC11041...he-consequences

 

Did Workers' Party think through the consequences?

Letter from Chua Seng Chye 07:05 PM Apr 14, 2011As the General Election approaches, Singaporeans from all walks of life are being courted by an Opposition that insists on capitalising on fears that the PAP Government needs a foil or, in their own terms, that Singaporeans should "buy insurance" by voting for the Opposition.

 

The Workers' Party Manifesto which came out on Saturday contains interesting snippets and gems of "solutions" to perceived PAP Government "problems". It is easy to be swayed by the Opposition's hyperbole and sound-bite approach to Singapore politics. It is clear that the Workers' Party came up with a populist manifesto without thinking of the consequences such policies would lead to.

 

Pricing HBD flats according to the median income will only lead to a false market and destabilise property prices, affecting the asset values of every home owner in Singapore. A basic hospitalisation scheme paid for by the Government does not address the question of the quality of healthcare, contrary to a system dictated by market forces that has made us the medical hub of Asia.

 

Nationalising public transport is simply rolling back the clock to the sub-par services of pre-1980s Singapore. Allowing Singaporeans to withdraw a certain percentage of the CPF in times of need is a risky move, for if 1 per cent of Singaporeans apply at any one time for withdrawal, where are we going to find the staffing to clear 20,000 applicants and ensure they are truly in dire straits before the funds are released?

 

Almost every measure the Workers' Party has offered involves an increase in spending, setting quotas or degradation in services. What is worse is that when pressed for how the Workers' Party ideas will be bankrolled should they run the Government, their answer: Use government revenues and tap the reserves (built over the years by the PAP Government). So let's call it like it is - the PAP builds everything up and the Opposition just wants to spend it to get into power.

 

If I want to buy insurance, I would want the insurance company underwriting my coverage to be a big and strong one - but the Workers' Party's manifesto leaves me with the feeling that it is selling me promises they cannot pay out. I cannot wait to see the other parties' manifestoes - hopefully we will get something a little more credible, as I am still "uninsured" politically as a citizen - by my free will and choice.

 

He's just preparing for the next election, so that his boss can nominate him... hahaha...

 

anyway, yeah, from the information at http://www.sgdi.gov.sg/ it would seem that he is a PUB DD.

[Itsec]

actually both sides are selfish. The people asking for lower HDB prices usually want to upgrade to a private and hopes that the private property prices will fall with new policies.

 

It all depends on whether you are vested.

 

Those who have no intention to upgrade will usually wish their property price go up. Common sense lah.

 

 

i have no intention to upgrade.. and i dont mind it drop not more than 20%....

 

however, if i'm got $$$, i will prefer a drop in private properties... and invest...

 

i stand by my point

1. 4 rm hdb is meant for the affordable aka poor / low-middle income /

5m and above is meant for middle income

 

2. private properties is meant for the riches to play...let them speculate till the roof.... or drop dead to the ground..

[Tedlhw]

He is a MIW lackey lah... someone said he is a Deputy Director from PUB

 

http://www.todayonline.com/Voices/EDC11041...he-consequences

 

Did Workers' Party think through the consequences?

Letter from Chua Seng Chye 07:05 PM Apr 14, 2011As the General Election approaches, Singaporeans from all walks of life are being courted by an Opposition that insists on capitalising on fears that the PAP Government needs a foil or, in their own terms, that Singaporeans should "buy insurance" by voting for the Opposition.

 

The Workers' Party Manifesto which came out on Saturday contains interesting snippets and gems of "solutions" to perceived PAP Government "problems". It is easy to be swayed by the Opposition's hyperbole and sound-bite approach to Singapore politics. It is clear that the Workers' Party came up with a populist manifesto without thinking of the consequences such policies would lead to.

 

Pricing HBD flats according to the median income will only lead to a false market and destabilise property prices, affecting the asset values of every home owner in Singapore. A basic hospitalisation scheme paid for by the Government does not address the question of the quality of healthcare, contrary to a system dictated by market forces that has made us the medical hub of Asia.

 

Nationalising public transport is simply rolling back the clock to the sub-par services of pre-1980s Singapore. Allowing Singaporeans to withdraw a certain percentage of the CPF in times of need is a risky move, for if 1 per cent of Singaporeans apply at any one time for withdrawal, where are we going to find the staffing to clear 20,000 applicants and ensure they are truly in dire straits before the funds are released?

 

Almost every measure the Workers' Party has offered involves an increase in spending, setting quotas or degradation in services. What is worse is that when pressed for how the Workers' Party ideas will be bankrolled should they run the Government, their answer: Use government revenues and tap the reserves (built over the years by the PAP Government). So let's call it like it is - the PAP builds everything up and the Opposition just wants to spend it to get into power.

 

If I want to buy insurance, I would want the insurance company underwriting my coverage to be a big and strong one - but the Workers' Party's manifesto leaves me with the feeling that it is selling me promises they cannot pay out. I cannot wait to see the other parties' manifestoes - hopefully we will get something a little more credible, as I am still "uninsured" politically as a citizen - by my free will and choice.

 

1) The PAP also spend our money to stay in power leh... The "vote me get new lifts" upgrading programme...

2) CPF is our money leh, if we really need it cannot withdraw? I personally view it as cannot withdraw at all. I only keep like 15K in CPF in case interest rates rise. Drain everything else. Only the cash in my pocket is real .

Edited April 26, 2011 by Tedlhw

[Icedbs]

actually if voting for opposition will crash the property market, alot of rich people will vote for them hehe.

because it will mean its time to buy another unit ;)

 

They won't.

 

Because rich people has a few properties and they are living on rental income.

 

If market crash, it will affect their rental income. Worst still, some may get margin calls from the banks asking to top up their loans since they may have overstretch with a few properties.

 

So it is not so simple and straightforward.

 

 

 

 

[Altivo]

Wah Lau, the PAP also spend our money to stay in power leh... The "vote me get new lifts" upgrading programme...

 

Ya loh. That's why i don't agree when MBT says WP's proposal of pegging the price of new HDB flat to median income is "raiding the reserves". Even at this lower price, HDB is still making a profit, so the only difference is that they will be making lesser profits and as compared to the past. Where's the raiding of reserves coming from?

[Icedbs]

They are using this as a threat.....vote for opp n the value of your HDB will go down...

Pls lah...use your F brain...u either sell high n buy higher if upgrading or stay there in your Million $ flat but cannot cash out. no $ to eat can u take a piece of your flat n eat? stupid selfish ...never think for the future of children..

 

It's not that they are stupid.

 

A big group of voters belong to the baby boomers generation where most are near to retiring age.

 

They very well know that if property continue to appreciate, they can cash out later when they have retired and move to a smaller unit.

 

The cash they pocket will be their reitrement fund.

 

As for those who won't cash out yet, it is still good to know that the property they are siting in is gaining in value. It's just a human nature thing.

 

 

 

 

[Jpcc]

It's not that they are stupid.

 

A big group of voters belong to the baby boomers generation where most are near to retiring age.

 

They very well know that if property continue to appreciate, they can cash out later when they have retired and move to a smaller unit.

 

The cash they pocket will be their reitrement fund.

 

As for those who won't cash out yet, it is still good to know that the property they are siting in is gaining in value. It's just a human nature thing.

 

This sounds like some investment advice you dishing out.

 

I don't know much about investment, but i heard a guy with first name Buffet is not too bad on it.

 

Here're some of his ideas:

- It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently.

 

- If past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians

 

- Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

 

 

 

 

[Tedlhw]

Ya loh. That's why i don't agree when MBT says WP's proposal of pegging the price of new HDB flat to median income is "raiding the reserves". Even at this lower price, HDB is still making a profit, so the only difference is that they will be making lesser profits and as compared to the past. Where's the raiding of reserves coming from?

 

Well, my take is that pegging the price of new flat to median income will cause the property prices to drop.

And that drop can be pretty drastic.

Its something that i do not want to see happen, for purely selfish reasons, as some have rightly pointed out.

 

I think we need to think about the debate here.

Are the price of NEW flats being priced of out of reach for the average Singaporean?

Or are people generally complaining about the high price of resale flats here?

Very often this is not distinguished in many arguments.

 

I suspect that very few people complain about the prices of new flats, and the bulk of the complaints come from people buying resale flats. However, if they are buying resale, most likley it is because their income is above 8K. I think they can take care of themselves.

[Icedbs]

This sounds like some investment advice you dishing out.

 

I don't know much about investment, but i heard a guy with first name Buffet is not too bad on it.

 

Here're some of his ideas:

- It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently.

 

- If past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians

 

- Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

 

Like it or not, people know that their property is their biggest investment. Some may not call it invesment, but it is still their biggest spending.

 

When one has spend so much on an item, naturally they would want to protect its value unless it is clear from day one that it is a depreciating asset such as cars, TVs, IT gadgets, etc. But those are not their biggest spending.

 

So it is not about investment because most Spreans are not investment savvy anyway, but just natural human tendency to protect their biggest spending such that they don't "lose".

 

[Shull]

If majority of Singaporeans have such short sighted mentality, then i forsee a bleak future.

 

But again, looking at our younger Gen Ys, we still have hope..

[Chilli_crab]

anyway, yeah, from the information at http://www.sgdi.gov.sg/ it would seem that he is a PUB DD.

He can relax now. With this letter, his KPI for the current appraisal year has exceeded expectation and is ready to assume far greater responsibilities.

 

[Piyopico]

It's not that they are stupid.

 

A big group of voters belong to the baby boomers generation where most are near to retiring age.

 

They very well know that if property continue to appreciate, they can cash out later when they have retired and move to a smaller unit.

 

The cash they pocket will be their reitrement fund.

 

As for those who won't cash out yet, it is still good to know that the property they are siting in is gaining in value. It's just a human nature thing.

 

This arguement does not hold water.

 

The replacement flat will also cost more. Whether you do it in an up mkt or down mkt, the differential is the sacrifice in space or location.

 

This point is almost always not taken into consideration.

[Curahee]

This fella is beyond selfish, it belong to the evil, dun even care abt his children, his grand children and the rest of our younger generation. This type of ppl r those that rather destroy the whole jungle of trees juz to preserve his own pathetic tree.

[Altivo]

This fella is beyond selfish, it belong to the evil, dun even care abt his children, his grand children and the rest of our younger generation. This type of ppl r those that rather destroy the whole jungle of trees juz to preserve his own pathetic tree.

 

Don't think he has kids.... if not... 生孩子没有屁眼

[Dirtbike]

Well, my take is that pegging the price of new flat to median income will cause the property prices to drop.

And that drop can be pretty drastic.

Its something that i do not want to see happen, for purely selfish reasons, as some have rightly pointed out.

 

I think we need to think about the debate here.

Are the price of NEW flats being priced of out of reach for the average Singaporean?

Or are people generally complaining about the high price of resale flats here?

Very often this is not distinguished in many arguments.

 

I suspect that very few people complain about the prices of new flats, and the bulk of the complaints come from people buying resale flats. However, if they are buying resale, most likley it is because their income is above 8K. I think they can take care of themselves.

 

Friend.....new flats price will be pegged to resale price....

so if resale price continues to climb, so will new flats price...

see the connection?

 

u think new flats price is cheap now? affordable? with a near 30yrs loan for those lower income group?

[Tedlhw]

Friend.....new flats price will be pegged to resale price....

so if resale price continues to climb, so will new flats price...

see the connection?

 

u think new flats price is cheap now? affordable? with a near 30yrs loan for those lower income group?

 

For the lower income group more subsidies can be given, as i mentioned before in another thread.

However, this doesn't involve causing 80% of people, to lose value, just for less than 10% of the population.

If we are doing this, it is socialism, no less.

 

We should not encourage socialist leanings because it is proven to be an inferior system in a capitalist global economy

Policies should be measured on their ability to create "good" or "util" for the large majority, which results in a large absolute 'good'.

There will be a negative externality for every action, we need to see if this externality is worth the benefits.

 

Seperate measures can be put in place to take care of those who did not do as well. .

I think if we want to look at small individual example, some people will always fall through the cracks.

More can be done for the very low income though. I have talked about this in another thread.

 

The average income for a Singaporean is 2400 or so.

For a dual income family, it should be ard 4800, we should measure a new "standard" 4 room flat in sengkang, to see its affordability in terms of number of times of annual family income.

 

Based on 300K flat, its is 5.2 years annual income.

 

My father used to earn $800 pm when he first started, flat was worth $35,000, its 3.6 times annual income.

 

So yes, flat prices have risen relative to income. But is it truly unaffordable for the bulk of Singaporeans?

 

Don't get me wrong, i am not pro nor anti-PAP. We need to give credit when its due, and criticize when its due.

 

More importantly, we need to be barking up the right tree.

 

 

 

[Tigerwoods]

I have long conceded that there is no point highlighting all the current issues such as low wages, high inflation, FT, high ministerial pay, COE, ERP, etc, etc. All those videos showing old people collecting cans in the rubbish bin to gain empathy is a waste of time.

 

If the Opps take time to address those issues, they are focusing on the wrong thing.

 

Voters only care about their properties. Which party that can make their properties appreciate, they will vote for that party. This is why the "not at my backyard" mentality.

 

So if any Opps can address how to make hosing affordable, yet will continue to make property appreciate, will win.

A society's behaviour is shaped by its political atmosphere.

You are what you are from the climate you are in.

Enough said.