Minimum Wage - your opinions please

[Watwheels]

Ok saw some posts on limiting the FW so that local are given job on reasonable (cos FW asking for much less)....

 

This is fair to the extend when a company is making profit, some SME use FW for cost saving that allow the company to float.... if MW apply to all companies, then the small will surely gone...

 

With more job rejected by the local, many FW come in at lower cost, however, if they know that they are in demand, wouldn't the wages increase after a while?

No. Since you mentioned many FW coming in, those who want to increase wages will be asked to leave and those who are eager to work here will be brought in to replace them.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Watwheels

[Kangadrool]

Ok saw some posts on limiting the FW so that local are given job on reasonable (cos FW asking for much less)....

 

This is fair to the extend when a company is making profit, some SME use FW for cost saving that allow the company to float.... if MW apply to all companies, then the small will surely gone...

 

With more job rejected by the local, many FW come in at lower cost, however, if they know that they are in demand, wouldn't the wages increase after a while?

 

Yes, wage increased for a while. Then towkays kpkb, ask for more FW again, wage goes down, lower than before it was increased. The relentless pursuit for more and more FW does not help/give incentives to raise the productivity and improve work process. The vicious cycle continue even till today.

 

Productivity has never been improved at all in this country for the last decades!

Edited January 13, 2011 by Kangadrool

[Joseph22]

That is why, they should impose 1 sin to 1 fw instead of current 1-5.

Only when employment become 100% then can hire more fw.

[Gearoil]

But you forget to say what happens if there's a so call "good welfare system" or MW scheme.

 

Ppl will just stop working hard or work OT cos they have made enough for themselves to meet the min living standard. That's when Sinkland will literally sink and its ppl to sink faster.

 

There will be alot more ppl needing help ( monetary lah) then those who can do without.

 

This is true for any country.

 

But for Sinkland given it's very small size vs it's increasing and aging population , this numbers will be amplified....many times.

 

I guess you could look at it this way.

 

If the gov stick to their guns ...more of such folks will..

 

1) throw themselves into MRT trains ( not withstanding the barrier bulit)

 

2) die on the streets and everywhere except in the areas where Elite stays.

 

3) create all sorts of social and economic havoc.

 

4) die all over the places that houses them.

 

5) can't die but yet not living....half dead stage. zombies?

 

6) pull down the next and next generation of theirs affected by it.

 

7) more crimes....more hideous crimes

 

and the ultimate ....revolt and you have what Phillpine had, during the Marcos era!

 

[Gearoil]

the first few points like do will die, dun do also die....

 

then your last point basically ask half the population to go to hell [laugh]

 

Correction....Actually more than half of the Sinkie poplution is given the 'middle finger' by the Papies lah!

 

Only they didn't show it in action but in words!

 

So vote for them loh!hahahaHAHAHAhahaha

 

[Tigerwoods]

It is always sad to hear that our system is always to be reactive than to be proactive.

What I mean reactive ?

 

A low wage worker earning not enough kena warning letters from HDB to repossess his flat, kena switch off all Power from PUB and no food on the table for his 3 hungry kids and washerwoman wife. Only then, the angels in white come and take picture giving some Ang Pao and groceries etc.

 

Why can't they give the man the wage that will prevent him from this blight ?

 

Its always like this which I find will only widen the income gap.

 

For Low Wage talent : We must pay competitive salaries to keep cost low...

For High Wage talents : We must pay competitive salaries to attract "Talent".

This means to increase the poor man's salary by $100/mth will trouble the company mroe than giving $$millions salary to a few Top Brass ??

Edited January 13, 2011 by Tigerwoods

[Watwheels]

There will be alot more ppl needing help ( monetary lah) then those who can do without.

 

This is true for any country.

 

But for Sinkland given it's very small size vs it's increasing and aging population , this numbers will be amplified....many times.

 

I guess you could look at it this way.

 

If the gov stick to their guns ...more of such folks will..

 

1) throw themselves into MRT trains ( not withstanding the barrier bulit)

 

2) die on the streets and everywhere except in the areas where Elite stays.

 

3) create all sorts of social and economic havoc.

 

4) die all over the places that houses them.

 

5) can't die but yet not living....half dead stage. zombies?

 

6) pull down the next and next generation of theirs affected by it.

 

7) more crimes....more hideous crimes

 

and the ultimate ....revolt and you have what Phillpine had, during the Marcos era!

 

As I said...

If the MW is introduced, less ppl would want to be employers and less foreign investors would wanna come hence less ppl here will be employed. Your points 1~7 will just be amplified many folds and disasters will just happen earlier.

 

Sinkland will sink and its ppl sink even faster.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Watwheels

[Joseph22]

Sadly this is the problem with capitalism.

But no one want to work in a socialist or communist style of living.

[Jman888]

That is why, they should impose 1 sin to 1 fw instead of current 1-5.

Only when employment become 100% then can hire more fw.

 

monitor company by company? they are doing it right now but how it get away?

 

the most FW intensive industries in constructions and service, other should be 4-to-1 ratio right?

 

in fact, employment rate is like 100% if not for the involuntary unemployed.... yes some with good hand and leg prefer to shake leg at home

[Greatbirdlegend]

I thought there are only a few select groups of people in SG that have both minimum wage AND pension?

[Jman888]

Sadly this is the problem with capitalism.

But no one want to work in a socialist or communist style of living.

 

 

we don't mind, can share some of Radx and the table wiper's wealth [laugh]

[Joseph22]

1-4 quota is too big. Should reduce further to 1-2 or 1-1. And not on the number alone but on the level too. What for having singaporean cleaner to hire FT for executive role??

 

Do note, sector that require FW already had additional worker quotat base on the number and size of the project liao.

[Mllcg]

actually, this system fair. Imagine the same company employing 2 different people for the same post and paying them differently.

 

maybe set MW at 7/hr and 1800/mth for diploma+HNITEC

[The_Bear]

Only those in the lowest income group will be affected by any implementation of minimum wages. As the name implies, it only stipulates the lowest legally rate to be paid to an employee by the employer. By any reckoning, minimum wage standard, if implemented will be around $1,000/ mth ($5.25 per hour) to $1,200/ mth ($6.29 per hour). Any rate beyond this will have knock-on effect on other jobs within similar pay scale. People will be leaving more productive jobs for minimum wage work with less responsiblity and stress, resulting in productivity loss. At current, most of the workers who fall under this categories are foreign workers, especially work permit holders. By implementing the minimum wage, we are losing more of our currency to this group of workers. It can be argued that the scheme can be only applicable to Singaporeans but this will reek of protectionism which in the long run, is not in our interest as a small country, dependant on foreign trade.

[Bens]

company always care about their benefit than who works for them. setting a minimum wage then may mean more FW, because FW is lower anyway...

[Jim]

Foreigners, especially EP holders, already have a minimum wage, starting from around $1800. For WP workers, the foreign worker levy works as a sort of minimum wage too... for the government pockets.

 

People still like to hire foreigners for a very simple reason: you can make foreigners work ridiculous hours and be mean to them, kick them around, and they will still hang around because going home will be worse. Just think about how much money a maid earns on a per hour basis. Government adopts a monkey no see, monkey no hear, monkey no talk attitude when it comes to such abuses. Very Confucian indeed. Cant do that to Singaporeans, who can choose to starve. So, we dont need a minimum wage system. We just need more protection for the foreign workers, and it will translate to better wages for Singaporeans.

[Jman888]

Would this be considered as minimum wage?

 

Salaries of new Indonesian maids to rise to S$450

By Saifulbahri Ismail | Posted: 18 January 2011 1915 hrs

 

SINGAPORE : The salaries of new Indonesian foreign domestic workers will soon rise.

 

17 major employment agencies in Singapore will increase the monthly salaries for the workers from S$380 to S$450. The increment will take effect by this week, they said.

 

Over the years, the supply of Indonesian maids in Singapore has been dwindling.

 

Employment agencies indicated that the shortage was due largely to demand from places such as Hong Kong and Taiwan.

 

The agencies recently met maid suppliers from Indonesia to try and resolve the issue. One solution is to provide better salaries.

 

Desmond Chin, group director, Nation Employment, said: "All the suppliers, they're facing difficult conditions to recruit. They are requesting us to match the maid's salary to HK$650, to match the salary to T$800, which is right now impossible.

 

"Maybe, we can do it step by step. So right now, we have agreed with the Indonesian supplier for the salary of S$450."

 

Many employment agencies in Singapore support the move.

 

The higher salary will not benefit the agencies or the suppliers, as there will be no change in the foreign placement fee.

 

Employment agencies said the change can help remove unhealthy practices among the agencies.

 

Tay Khoon Beng, director, Best Home Employment Agency, said: "If we don't have enough supply to applicants in the first place, eventually more and more agencies will poach one another's maids and offer 10 and 20 dollars increase in salary and transfer these helpers among Singaporean employers and this is even a worse scenario for us."

 

Employment agencies said it is up to employers to increase the salary of existing maids. They are also wary of the possibility of a small group of maids who may try to terminate their contracts so that they can be re-employed with the better salary.

 

Some employers feel any salary increase has to be gradual.

 

Samuel Teo, an employer of an Indonesian maid, said: "The other thing is that I also feel that, of course, when you pay more, you're expecting a very high quality from the maid. Will the maid be able to deliver?"

 

More than 70 per cent of maids working in Singapore are Indonesians and employment agencies said demand for these maids is still strong.

 

With the proposed salary increase for Indonesian maids, employment agencies also hope to increase the retention rate, giving them the incentive to work longer in Singapore.

 

- CNA/al

[Greatbirdlegend]

Foreigners, especially EP holders, already have a minimum wage, starting from around $1800. For WP workers, the foreign worker levy works as a sort of minimum wage too... for the government pockets.

 

People still like to hire foreigners for a very simple reason: you can make foreigners work ridiculous hours and be mean to them, kick them around, and they will still hang around because going home will be worse. Just think about how much money a maid earns on a per hour basis. Government adopts a monkey no see, monkey no hear, monkey no talk attitude when it comes to such abuses. Very Confucian indeed. Cant do that to Singaporeans, who can choose to starve. So, we dont need a minimum wage system. We just need more protection for the foreign workers, and it will translate to better wages for Singaporeans.

 

The race to the bottom benefits nobody other than the people skimming more profit off everyone else.