Gearbox issues; and problems at VW Service Centre

[Fuelsaver]

  On 4/1/2016 at 3:51 PM, Detach8 said:

Not disagreeing with you, but you must think about how a big organization like VW which sells millions of cars need to deal with issues. It can't possibly do a mass recall just because of a slightly accelerated wear and tear... if every car manufacturer does that, it will go under very quickly. Statistical analysis is a must, but I do NOT know how they analyse/interpret it. The DQ200 failures could be sitting on a very fine line between being classified as defective or wear and tear. But VW having used it over multiple generations of Golfs, Jetta, Passat, etc. is very telling of what they think of it internally -- basically that the transmission is still good to go.

Dont think its "slightly accelerated". Transmission gd to go as lotsa r&d n other resources been put into it n also really working effectively when new.

[JosephS]

So far the complaints are on previous models... So far anyone bought golf model (in 2016) and encountered any problems? Thinking of buying the golf....

[Baal]

Jetta bought 2016, yom 2015, clinical trials pending...

[Detach8]

  On 4/3/2016 at 2:47 PM, JosephS said:

So far the complaints are on previous models... So far anyone bought golf model (in 2016) and encountered any problems? Thinking of buying the golf....

I have a Golf Mk7 (that's your '2016' golf). 

[JosephS]

  On 4/3/2016 at 4:45 PM, Detach8 said:

I have a Golf Mk7 (that's your '2016' golf).

Haha sorry for not scrolling thru the pages to see all the replies... Mind sharing your feedback on the car and also on the servicing experience as well? Thanks! :)

[Detach8]

  On 4/4/2016 at 12:01 AM, JosephS said:

Haha sorry for not scrolling thru the pages to see all the replies... Mind sharing your feedback on the car and also on the servicing experience as well? Thanks! :)

 

Car so far so good, haven't gone back to VW for servicing yet.

 

My wife has the previous model, 80k mileage, bought when around 60+k. So far so good also.

[JosephS]

Haha ok that sounds positive in the midst of all the negative. Thanks Detach8!

[Coern]

  On 3/26/2016 at 7:46 AM, Thorvon said:

I don't know yet... Have to wait for diagnosis. Being towed. It's the flashing spanner sign, unable to change gear on the selector.

 

I drive VW golf cabriolet mk6, 4 years tow twice... but not because of DSG. :p

 

Changed clutch pads once at 35k (around 2.5 yrs old), sending in on monday to change another set at 60k (just over 4 yrs old)... 

[Coern]

  On 3/28/2016 at 7:48 AM, EricChan said:

Ok . Related although not VW .

Colleague's Audi A3 only 7 months old but needing clutch replacement .

 

same gearbox, just that they call it different name. my colleague's A3 1.4 broke down at 11 months old due to DSG, after that he changed to a second hand bmw 523 and had power window issues.

 

conti car is really FML...   

[Audi2016]

  On 4/7/2016 at 6:16 AM, Coern said:

same gearbox, just that they call it different name. my colleague's A3 1.4 broke down at 11 months old due to DSG, after that he changed to a second hand bmw 523 and had power window issues.

 

conti car is really FML...   

 

I think BMW more famous for air con issues. Haha

[t0y0ta]

  On 4/7/2016 at 6:16 AM, Coern said:

same gearbox, just that they call it different name. my colleague's A3 1.4 broke down at 11 months old due to DSG, 

 

So fast ah?

 

Thought it is some super-new MQB architecture with new gen gearbox and engine.... and is same same as new A4.

[Audi2016]

  On 4/7/2016 at 6:29 AM, t0y0ta said:

So fast ah?

 

Thought it is some super-new MQB architecture with new gen gearbox and engine.... and is same same as new A4.

 

Platform and engine is new. Gearbox is not, just renamed. 

 

Different platform, gearbox & engine as new A4, by the way.

[LPPL]

  On 2/7/2012 at 4:58 AM, W210k said:

Or the lack thereof?

With all these DSG and mechatronics related problems surfacing, best to avoid VW till the problem is fully resolved.

Otherwise you'll be carrying the hot potato!!

My pal got the software affecting the gear changed just before the warranty expired. After warranty expired, he got his breaking system repaired for $5k and he still has 4 over years left for his jetta. I have driven so many cars that does not require abs to be repaired after such a short time or the gear. I think vw has traded reliability for its DSG technology.

[Keithchue]

  On 4/10/2016 at 3:51 PM, LPPL said:

My pal got the software affecting the gear changed just before the warranty expired. After warranty expired, he got his breaking system repaired for $5k and he still has 4 over years left for his jetta. I have driven so many cars that does not require abs to be repaired after such a short time or the gear. I think vw has traded reliability for its DSG technology.

what was the offending item?

 

5K seems abit steep

[LPPL]

  On 4/11/2016 at 8:07 AM, Keithchue said:

what was the offending item?

 

5K seems abit steep

Abs and something else, he didn't give me the other details specifically. He told me his abs was completely not working. 

[Baal]

http://paultan.org/2014/03/17/dual-clutch-transmissions-dry-clutch/

 

 

Ah, the dual-clutch transmission.  There was once a time where upon hearing that a car was to be equipped with one, motorheads would speculate on whether it would deliver incredibly quick shift times made famous by Volkswagen’s DSG, enhancing a car’s ‘fun to drive’ factor.  Things have certainly changed since then – now when a car buyer hears that a car is equipped with an advanced dual-clutch transmission, they ask whether it is a wet clutch or dry clutch system and what the failure rate of the ‘box is.
 

Although we’ve heard of issues with both types of dual-clutch transmissions, it’s the general belief that dry clutch versions of the transmission are far more problematic.  Wet clutches run in an oil bath, and are generally used for higher torque applications, where there is more energy and heat to handle and the oil helps cool the gearbox down.  However, as a downside, wet clutch gearboxes have higher parasitic losses because the oil has to be pumped through the gearbox to cool the clutches.
 

As an example, in Malaysia the six-speed DSG in the Volkswagen Golf GTI as well as the seven-speed S-Tronic units in Audis are wet clutch units.  The last-generation Ford Focus TDCI, as well as the current Ford Mondeo and Ford S-MAX, also use wet clutch versions of dual-clutch transmission technology.  There’s of course the higher performance applications of the form, like Porsche’s PDK and as found on the likes of theBMW M3 and M5, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG as well as the grey market Nissan GT-R.

Dry clutch transmissions are said to be more efficient because of the reduced volume of oil being pumped through the system.  This is because the torque capacity of these models are designed to be lower.  Volkswagen’s seven-speed gearbox – paired to its 1.4 litre TSI engines – is a dry clutch variant, and so are the dual-clutch gearboxes found on the current generation Ford Fiesta and Ford Focus.

Let’s make one thing clear – no car company intentionally puts out a product into the market that it doesn’t think will last the lifespan of the car.  The definition of lifespan is not forever of course, but an acceptable service lifespan that differs between manufacturers or products, usually at least 10 years onwards.  Technology is tested extensively with all kinds of use cases to try to identify and predict issues that might arise.

However, sometimes things slip through.  Swapping out additional cooling that was considered not needed in exchange for additional efficiency proved to have issues.  Last year, Volkswagen announced that it would be swapping the synthetic oil in its DQ200 seven-speed dry dual-clutch transmission with mineral oil – essentially, the switch was to rectify a problem where electric malfunctions could occur in the gearbox power supply if synthetic gearbox oil was used, particularly if the vehicle is subject to a hot and humid climate, coupled with a high proportion of stop & go driving.  Sounds like Malaysian roads for sure.  Recently, Fiat recalled 19,500 units of the Fiat 500L because of dry-clutch DCT issues, and Honda recalled over 80,000 cars that were fitted with its DCT gearbox.

 

Because of these issues, some gearbox manufacturers are already moving away from dry dual-clutch transmissions for entry level cars.  Getrag’s latest – the new 6DCT150 dual-clutch transmission – uses wet clutch technology instead of a dry clutch layout despite being an entry-level gearbox designed to handle loads of up to 170 Nm.  As a comparison, the older 6DCT250 currently found in the Fiesta and Focus is rated up to between 240 Nm to 280 Nm, and uses dry clutch technology.
 

According to Getrag CTO Didier Lexa in an interview with DrivelineNEWS.com, these small engines and dry clutch gearboxes are often coupled with relatively heavy vehicles.  When a small engine accelerates a large mass, the gearbox needs a longer synchronising time, which generates more heat.  And even when installed in small vehicles, the thermal constraints on these small cars (which have smaller engine bays) are even greater than on C-segment or D-segment cars.
 

So in the end, it looks like a wet clutch is needed not just for powerful sporty cars but small engines in big cars as well.  A dry clutch system only works well in an area in the middle of those two extremes; however, with advancements in oil pump technology, the difference in terms of efficiency between wet and dry clutch has been minimised.  So is there really a point for dry clutch technology now?

 

Indeed, Getrag’s recently announced dual-clutch products all use wet clutch technology – no dry clutch in sight.  Other than the new 6DCT150, there’s also a new seven-speed 7DCT300 and a hybrid 7HDT300, designed to pair a combustion engine with an electric motor.  However, the existing 6DCT250 will live on for another six to eight years before it is retired.
 

With these new learnings, car manufacturers should pick and choose wisely before deciding on which gearbox to implement.  For example, while Ford has opted to pair the Getrag PowerShift 6DCT250 with the1.0 litre Ecoboost engine in the Ford Fiesta, the same 1.0 litre Ecoboost unit is paired with a Ford-GM torque converter six-speed automatic, the 6F, in the larger Focus in Europe.  Volvo, a PowerShift user and which has a model line-up starting from C-segment (Focus-sized V40) onwards, has moved away from the 6DCT250, replacing it with an Aisin eight-speed torque converter auto in the latest generation of its cars.
 

Others are also trying to innovate dual-clutch transmissions in other ways.  Both GM and Honda are experimenting with dual-clutch transmissions that have a torque converter to help smoothen out stop-and-go situations.  Could that be the right path to work out the final few kinks from dual-clutch technology?


http://paultan.org/2014/03/17/dual-clutch-transmissions-dry-clutch/

[Kangadrool]

It's not a matter of how fast the GB can shift, but how fast the GB can go bonkers.

 

People just don't get it.

 

Real manual is the only way if real gear box one is looking at. Otherwise, automatik slushbox.

[Forte3737]

  On 4/22/2016 at 5:57 AM, Kangadrool said:

It's not a matter of how fast the GB can shift, but how fast the GB can go bonkers.

 

People just don't get it.

 

Real manual is the only way if real gear box one is looking at. Otherwise, automatik slushbox.

Actually how fast gb can shift is Consider important?