Gearbox issues; and problems at VW Service Centre

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 11:27 PM, Yuan said:

Enough la.

 

You are sounding like a broken record here.

 

More like stirring da bian to me.

That's early scheisse fuer you. Lol..

Very cold here. skin parched. I want to come back and drink again.

[Fels]

Oh yes. It's april fools day!

The earth is square, the sun rises from the north and sets in the south!

Happy april fools day!

[Rskc]

  On 3/31/2016 at 3:07 PM, Fels said:

I have audited and been audited before. It's not easy to get certified.

 

Which standard were you audited with?

ISO9001 (electronics, 4G, solar) ISO/TS16949 (petrochem company that supplied parts to millions of cars), SOX - the usual one.

 

Maybe I have been lucky to get less plucky auditors all these years.

 

Sidetrack a bit - Even UL and CE certifications for USA and Europe, I don't trust 100% if product is made at low cost countries.

 

One thing about audit is always - say what u r asked. Don say what u r not asked. It is always first impression counts - get the first few questions answered well, one will have a better audit day. And it is always about tracebility - from sales order right down to the raw materials for that particular lot or s/n shipped to customer.

 

I am not an expert nor quality guy but just sharing from experience.

 

Cheers.

[Jellandross]

  On 3/31/2016 at 4:57 PM, Detach8 said:

 

Well, my Latio had an AC internal cooling coil leak within 2 years from new. And I'm not the only case I've heard of. So considered reliability problem or not?

 

A failure of any car component is defined as a systemic reliability issue when it satisfies the following stringent criteria:

1. Personal encounter of the said issue
2. Received complaint of the said issue from anyone in the family
3. Received complaint of the said issue from at least 1 or more friends
4. Received complaint of the said issue from at least 2 or more colleagues
5. Personally witness at least one occurrence of a car of the said brand being towed on the road
6. Personally witness at least one occurrence of a car of the said brand undergoing repair in workshop
7. At least 10 or more official reports of the said issue on any reputable internet car forum

 

Hope this helps.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Jellandross

[Fuelsaver]

  On 4/1/2016 at 2:54 AM, Jellandross said:

A failure of any car component is defined as a systemic reliability issue when it satisfies the following stringent criteria:

1. Personal encounter of the said issue
2. Received complaint of the said issue from anyone in the family
3. Received complaint of the said issue from at least 1 or more friends
4. Received complaint of the said issue from at least 2 or more colleagues
5. Personally witness at least one occurrence of a car of the said brand being towed on the road
6. Personally witness at least one occurrence of a car of the said brand undergoing repair in workshop
7. At least 10 or more official reports of the said issue on any reputable internet car forum

 

Hope this helps.

that was some KPI, but still depend on car manufacturer to do RCA. so if it tackled at agent side, hard for manufacturer to do smthg. perhaps twas y vw dsg issue lurked for a few yrs before 1st recall in prc. to conclude, s'pore customer group too small to be considered for any product quality / reliability issue.

[Detach8]

  On 4/1/2016 at 2:54 AM, Jellandross said:

A failure of any car component is defined as a systemic reliability issue when it satisfies the following stringent criteria:

1. Personal encounter of the said issue
2. Received complaint of the said issue from anyone in the family
3. Received complaint of the said issue from at least 1 or more friends
4. Received complaint of the said issue from at least 2 or more colleagues
5. Personally witness at least one occurrence of a car of the said brand being towed on the road
6. Personally witness at least one occurrence of a car of the said brand undergoing repair in workshop
7. At least 10 or more official reports of the said issue on any reputable internet car forum

 

Hope this helps.

 

LOL if car manufacturers, or any product manufacturer defines this as a defect, I think every car, computer, tablet, phone... would be considered defective.

[EricChan]

  On 3/31/2016 at 5:18 PM, Detach8 said:

I am not doubting individual consumer reports of DSG failures. I agree with Fels that while some of the weird reported issues can be annoying, they do not constitute a failure.

 

I have two Golfs (Mk6 and Mk7) in my family, a close friend has a Passat (Mk6), and another has a Scirocco (Mk3), and wife has a friend who has the new Jetta (Mk6). ALL of them are using DQ200. The only issues I've heard are juddering issues which is actually clutch wear and tear, and after one or two software re-adaptations, a replacement is in order. While it can be annoying, uncomfortable, or inconvenient (to have it replaced), it is not really a failure. Just like driving a car that has worn brakes, if you choose to continue driving to a point beyond the remaining friction material and damage your brake discs, it is not considered a failure.

 

The takeaway here is that buyer ignorance is a problem. I personally bought the Golf knowing that it has a dry clutch and will require replacement every few years or so. My mum told me she drove her first car for a few years without knowing it had to be serviced, and it ran without problem till the day she sold it. If it had broken down, maybe she would have said it's unreliable.

 

The real test is when the car gets beyond 10 years of age or beyond 200K in mileage. I'm eager to see how this 2009 Mk6 Golf holds up.

I want to caution that It is a fine line to classify a failure as a wear and tear issue. Because everything will over time be broken, but is that time premature .

And because you can always spin off a failure as a wear and tear issue rather than call a spade a spade: one complaint is a one off. A group of complaints is a bad batch. A widespread of complaints is customer perception. Each and every car gearbox failing is just wear and tear . So when then does it constitute a failure , see what I mean.

Not so much as customer ignorance but customer experience and customer expectation given there are other makes to compare with .

Edited April 1, 2016 by EricChan

[Jellandross]

  On 4/1/2016 at 3:14 AM, Fuelsaver said:

that was some KPI, but still depend on car manufacturer to do RCA. so if it tackled at agent side, hard for manufacturer to do smthg. perhaps twas y vw dsg issue lurked for a few yrs before 1st recall in prc. to conclude, s'pore customer group too small to be considered for any product quality / reliability issue.

I think that's why China customer base was able to compel a recall for DSG (if I remember correctly).

[Baal]

I recall the CCP garmen instructed vw to fix the problem. And vw's solution in China, 7 dsg wet. DQ380.

[Fuelsaver]

  On 4/1/2016 at 4:04 AM, Jellandross said:

I think that's why China customer base was able to compel a recall for DSG (if I remember correctly).

i think so too; they have a much larger base. basically they r world factories n world consumers from their population size n developing status. we r nothing compared to countries / continents like europe, america, china and even india or africa should their economies boom.

[Blackyv]

  On 4/1/2016 at 4:57 AM, Roadrunner2029 said:

There's nothing customized for the Singapore market. We just take what's given to UK, Australia, Malaysia or Japan (RHD market) in case you wonder.

Didn't know those market got 1.6 altis wor... Hehehhe

[Eyke]

  On 4/1/2016 at 4:57 AM, Roadrunner2029 said:

There's nothing customized for the Singapore market. We just take what's given to UK, Australia, Malaysia or Japan (RHD market) in case you wonder.

 

we get less airbags, etc to reduce ARF payable

[Fuelsaver]

  On 4/1/2016 at 4:57 AM, Roadrunner2029 said:

There's nothing customized for the Singapore market. We just take what's given to UK, Australia, Malaysia or Japan (RHD market) in case you wonder.

Not referring to that. Refer to earlier postings.

[Detach8]

  On 4/1/2016 at 3:52 AM, EricChan said:

I want to caution that It is a fine line to classify a failure as a wear and tear issue. Because everything will over time be broken, but is that time premature .

And because you can always spin off a failure as a wear and tear issue rather than call a spade a spade: one complaint is a one off. A group of complaints is a bad batch. A widespread of complaints is customer perception. Each and every car gearbox failing is just wear and tear . So when then does it constitute a failure , see what I mean.

Not so much as customer ignorance but customer experience and customer expectation given there are other makes to compare with .

 

Not disagreeing with you, but you must think about how a big organization like VW which sells millions of cars need to deal with issues. It can't possibly do a mass recall just because of a slightly accelerated wear and tear... if every car manufacturer does that, it will go under very quickly. Statistical analysis is a must, but I do NOT know how they analyse/interpret it. The DQ200 failures could be sitting on a very fine line between being classified as defective or wear and tear. But VW having used it over multiple generations of Golfs, Jetta, Passat, etc. is very telling of what they think of it internally -- basically that the transmission is still good to go.

[EricChan]

  On 4/1/2016 at 3:51 PM, Detach8 said:

Not disagreeing with you, but you must think about how a big organization like VW which sells millions of cars need to deal with issues. It can't possibly do a mass recall just because of a slightly accelerated wear and tear... if every car manufacturer does that, it will go under very quickly. Statistical analysis is a must, but I do NOT know how they analyse/interpret it. The DQ200 failures could be sitting on a very fine line between being classified as defective or wear and tear. But VW having used it over multiple generations of Golfs, Jetta, Passat, etc. is very telling of what they think of it internally -- basically that the transmission is still good to go.

Whether big or small, all organisations make decisons. The decisions they make will be on grounds of of technical, commercial, and business basis.

With a big organisation, there are more resources, more knowledge, better systems and structure to make those decisions. But with every decision taking there are always trade-offs and risk.

You could take the risk (do nothing), transfer the risk (get a supplier with better expertise and cover that with warranty), treat the risk (mitigate) or terminate the risk (but at what the costs? ) or a combination of these.

Big organisations supposedly equate to more sound decision making process but it doesn't mean because of their size and their better structure and system that risks and errors can be totally avoided. It just mean lesser chances of mistakes with the outcome of the decision that they made that's all. 

Edited April 2, 2016 by EricChan

[Fels]

  On 4/1/2016 at 3:51 PM, Detach8 said:

Not disagreeing with you, but you must think about how a big organization like VW which sells millions of cars need to deal with issues. It can't possibly do a mass recall just because of a slightly accelerated wear and tear... if every car manufacturer does that, it will go under very quickly. Statistical analysis is a must, but I do NOT know how they analyse/interpret it. The DQ200 failures could be sitting on a very fine line between being classified as defective or wear and tear. But VW having used it over multiple generations of Golfs, Jetta, Passat, etc. is very telling of what they think of it internally -- basically that the transmission is still good to go.

I have the answer to this fundamental question that you have. Are you interested to Listen? Because i understand some might take offence with my postings.

[Detach8]

  On 4/2/2016 at 9:27 AM, Fels said:

I have the answer to this fundamental question that you have. Are you interested to Listen? Because i understand some might take offence with my postings.

Always willing to hear. Please share.

[Fels]

  On 4/2/2016 at 10:53 AM, Detach8 said:

Always willing to hear. Please share.

 

structuring it.

I'm having a good drink in jurong now... can't get the alcohol out of my system. It's another car-free night.