Gearbox issues; and problems at VW Service Centre

[t0y0ta]

  On 3/31/2016 at 12:53 PM, Fels said:

You need to measure by calculating the PPM to consider that a quality problem. Is that failure confined to a batch or is it genuinely a engineering design problem? Was there a mix up in parts during assembly? Was there a material compromise? We need to define that. So it is not fair to consider the engine piston crack a quality problem without the figures like PPM. As far as the evidence is concerned, there's nothing to establish it as a quality issue.

 

So far from just talking to my limited group of friends and acquaintances (small sample size), I already heard these issues with their VWs:

 

- MU failure (Passat CC, Golf(s), Jetta)

- AC condensation leaking into cabin floor carpet (Passat CC, Touran)

- Piston crack (Audi A4, Golf)

- Outside door handle spoil (Golf)

- Brake servo spoil (Golf)

 

and others I hear and forget.

 

 

But I guess overall VW still very high quality.... BUY BUY!

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 11:14 AM, Fuelsaver said:

hi bro, i hope u feel better now.

 

if u don't mind to continue, i'm waiting to hear ur expert opinion..

 

nvm, i'm just reading thru ur posting..

Thanks. Feeling better. I'm now drinking moderately at hengshan road.

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:00 PM, t0y0ta said:

So far from just talking to my limited group of friends and acquaintances (small sample size), I already heard these issues with their VWs:

 

- MU failure (Passat CC, Golf(s), Jetta)

- AC condensation leaking into cabin floor carpet (Passat CC, Touran)

- Piston crack (Audi A4, Golf)

- Outside door handle spoil (Golf)

- Brake servo spoil (Golf)

 

and others I hear and forget.

 

 

But I guess overall VW still very high quality.... BUY BUY!

True breakdown rate is not measured by sporadic personal anecdotes.

 

It is measured by true figures registered and investigated. Because many complaints from customers are actually not valid. For example... using wrong fuel, unauthorised tuning etc.

 

1 guy with door handle spoil compared to hundreds with door handle ok within warranty is hardly a quality problem. I just want to be fair.

[Blackyv]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:07 PM, Fels said:

Thanks. Feeling better. I'm now drinking moderately at hengshan road.

True breakdown rate is not measured by sporadic personal anecdotes.

 

It is measured by true figures registered and investigated. Because many complaints from customers are actually not valid. For example... using wrong fuel, unauthorised tuning etc.

 

1 guy with door handle spoil compared to hundreds with door handle ok within warranty is hardly a quality problem. I just want to be fair.

If you wanna talk about sampling size, I guess those failure is seriuos enough even for a small market like sg... Talk about ppm, you know how many bread and butter car like altis, jazz, latio, sylphy, lancer, etc running on sg road and yet, seldom or I have not even heard before piston broken or need overhaul engine at such early years of ownership ...

 

, from the way you 'defence', your words no longer I trust fully... And yup, me too deal with automotives industry player but might no be as much as u but ...well ...

[Fuelsaver]

the issue w general public / consumers is limited info, so can only read forums, surveys n hear fr owner frens / mech about car issues. car makers will not declare the "defects" of their cars. those in car sales  / service will not divulge much info.

so for laymen, genera guide will be based on above to judge, and i believe the direction still points to jap n korean makes for better reliability, since less is heard bout their issues.

[EricChan]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:07 PM, Fels said:

Thanks. Feeling better. I'm now drinking moderately at hengshan road.

True breakdown rate is not measured by sporadic personal anecdotes.

 

It is measured by true figures registered and investigated. Because many complaints from customers are actually not valid. For example... using wrong fuel, unauthorised tuning etc.

 

1 guy with door handle spoil compared to hundreds with door handle ok within warranty is hardly a quality problem. I just want to be fair.

 

yes and no.

 

because like it or not, customer perception is reality.

for perception drives decision.

 

you have at least some vested interest in VW  i gather.

Edited March 31, 2016 by EricChan

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:26 PM, EricChan said:

yes and no.

 

because like it or not, customer perception is reality.

for perception drives decision.

 

you have at least some vested interest in VW i gather.

I don't have vested interest in vw.

I speak from facts.

Customer perception is merely perception and it doesn't represent the full fact. Managing the vehicle quality require facts and stats and not relying on perception. Because you will end up chasing after nothing as perception can't prove the facts. They are only opinions.

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:24 PM, Blackyv said:

If you wanna talk about sampling size, I guess those failure is seriuos enough even for a small market like sg... Talk about ppm, you know how many bread and butter car like altis, jazz, latio, sylphy, lancer, etc running on sg road and yet, seldom or I have not even heard before piston broken or need overhaul engine at such early years of ownership ...

 

, from the way you 'defence', your words no longer I trust fully... And yup, me too deal with automotives industry player but might no be as much as u but ...well ...

Again, you are speaking from perception not stats and facts. I am not defending anyone. I'm just merely stating the facts. Not hearing doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Have you heard about the accelerator jammed issues about toyota in N.america? Heard about the wrong control arm fitted into some japanese brands? Heard about a process lapse leading to an escalation that blocked a global leader from supplying to PSA? Those were facts and stats not revealed.

 

Quality is conducted based on facts and stats. Not i hear this person that person heard 3 other friends and then they form the perception that there's a quality problem.

[t0y0ta]

Bros... VW is good and high quality and problem free. Unless anyone can hack into Wolfsburg datacenter to extract their car issues statistics and release to Wikileaks. Innocent until proven guilty.

 

 

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:45 PM, t0y0ta said:

 

Bros... VW is good and high quality and problem free. Unless anyone can hack into Wolfsburg datacenter to extract their car issues statistics and release to Wikileaks. Innocent until proven guilty.

 

 

Are you familiar with the ISO 9001, TS16949 and VDA6.1 quality system?

[EricChan]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:32 PM, Fels said:

I don't have vested interest in vw.

I speak from facts.

Customer perception is merely perception and it doesn't represent the full fact. Managing the vehicle quality require facts and stats and not relying on perception. Because you will end up chasing after nothing as perception can't prove the facts. They are only opinions.

you saying that you are in the automobile business, so surely you are supplying something to the car making business and ultimately a manufacturer right? It cannot be that you mean nothing you make or provide is to a VW given that they are big - one brief time the biggest in the world..

When a customer complains it is a one off. When a group of customers complain, it is a bad batch. When a wide spread number of customers complain it is customer perception not reality? How sure can that be ,,

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:52 PM, EricChan said:

you saying that you are in the automobile business, so surely you are supplying something to the car making business and ultimately a manufacturer right? It cannot be that you mean nothing you make or provide is to a VW given that they are big - one brief time the biggest in the world..

When a customer complains it is a one off. When a group of customers complain, it is a bad batch. When a wide spread number of customers complain it is customer perception not reality? How sure can that be ,,

Are you familiar with the calculation of ppm?

[EricChan]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:54 PM, Fels said:

Are you familiar with the calculation of ppm?

u mean parts per million?

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:56 PM, EricChan said:

u mean parts per million?

Yes. Are you familiar with its calculation?

[Blackyv]

  On 3/31/2016 at 1:38 PM, Fels said:

Again, you are speaking from perception not stats and facts. I am not defending anyone. I'm just merely stating the facts. Not hearing doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Have you heard about the accelerator jammed issues about toyota in N.america? Heard about the wrong control arm fitted into some japanese brands? Heard about a process lapse leading to an escalation that blocked a global leader from supplying to PSA? Those were facts and stats not revealed.

 

Quality is conducted based on facts and stats. Not i hear this person that person heard 3 other friends and then they form the perception that there's a quality problem.

 

 

if you base on "stats and fact" i guess you are correct, ....until today, they have not done an official recall on the 7-dsg failure in sg and admit the design failure, so, with that, you are correct to say "where got problem? no record mah= no problem"..or maybe you think the so call replace synthetic oil with mineral oil is the ultimate solution,then i have nothing else to say..... see my point?, you dont need such official "fact" data to smell the 'facts"...... and i dont define technical issue base on perception...

 

when you throw in stuff like "for example ...using wrong fuel, unauthorised tuning etc."  into the picture, i know where you wanna lead me into...it's a classic way to cover a matter by throwing in many smoke bomb, some kind of possibility into the discussion hoping one will get pick up by the crowd and bang on it which will directly divert the attention from the original target.... you mean other make's owner will not make such mistake and yet their car survived?

 

but of cause, this argument will go into, i heard from classmate, friend, colleague, neighbor, aunty and uncle not real since i've never own it before to provide the "fact data"... i think i will stop here... we are not going anywhere....

[EricChan]

  On 3/31/2016 at 2:03 PM, Fels said:

Yes. Are you familiar with its calculation?

am not into reliability modelling if you meant that ie. having a component with x probability of failure in y time and integrating the other components into the reliability model to find out a statistical representation of the reliability of the system.

useful as a theoretical basis but many factors in practice beyond just mere components: environment , range of operation and operator care, maintenance, road conditions, goodness of fit and installation, workmanship, place of manufacture (eg Germany vs hungary ), workforce attitude , Qa/ QC robustness  ...

Edited March 31, 2016 by EricChan

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 2:10 PM, Blackyv said:

if you base on "stats and fact" i guess you are correct, ....until today, they have not done an official recall on the 7-dsg failure in sg and admit the design failure, so, with that, you are correct to say "where got problem? no record mah= no problem"..or maybe you think the so call replace synthetic oil with mineral oil is the ultimate solution,then i have nothing else to say..... see my point?, you dont need such official "fact" data to smell the 'facts"...... and i dont define technical issue base on perception...

 

when you throw in stuff like "for example ...using wrong fuel, unauthorised tuning etc." into the picture, i know where you wanna lead me into...it's a classic way to cover a matter by throwing in many smoke bomb, some kind of possibility into the discussion hoping one will get pick up by the crowd and bang on it which will directly divert the attention from the original target.... you mean other make's owner will not make such mistake and yet their car survived?

 

but of cause, this argument will go into, i heard from classmate, friend, colleague, neighbor, aunty and uncle not real since i've never own it before to provide the "fact data"... i think i will stop here... we are not going anywhere....

Are you familiar with the iso9001 and ts16949 and vda6.1 quality system?

 

You have to be familiar with these to understand.

 

For the record, vw did implemented corrective actions to the dsg7 dry clutch transmission failure issue. Are you aware of this and its relation to clause 8 of iso9001 and ts16949?

[Fels]

  On 3/31/2016 at 2:15 PM, EricChan said:

am not into reliability modelling if you meant that ie. having a component with x probability of failure in y time and integrating the other components into the reliability model to find out a statistical representation of the reliability of the system.

useful as a theoretical basis nut many factors in practice beyond just mere components: environment , range of operation and operator care, maintenance, road conditions, goodness of fit and installation, ...

In other words you are not familiar with the usage of ppm.

 

Ppm is a very practical and hands on method of accessing the failure rate in its identified phase. Calculation of this figure requires in the ground feedback according to the required quality system. These actual cases captured by the warranty and the QE are then translated into actual figures to ascertain if there is indeed a quality problem.

 

Are you familiar with clause 8 of iso9001?

[Blackyv]

Looks like I might be talking with an auditor...,coincidentally, my company in having external audit since Wednesday.. Hehehhe