Rayleigh 6th Gear March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 still not fair because of CPF. employer still pay less with FW. Did you forget levy? ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph22 Turbocharged March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 Did you forget levy? yes, i forget levy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bioinformatics 3rd Gear March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 yup ... minimum salary for FT the idea is to raise UP minimum salary for FT so that employer would consider to employ "cheaper" local who can do the same job however, the flip side of the coin is if the job goes to FT because local don't want or can't do, then it makes FT earns even more, cost goes up, consumer suffers Absolutely Agree!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer69 Clutched March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 LPPL. Employer will ask the S-Pass worker to return the extra amount back to boss's pocket. this has been happening all these years and someone is still closing two eyes. there are so many not so educated/ skilled FT holding S-pass in the market. maybe that FW cleaning the toilets are S-pass wor? why S- pass? boss no need pay levy lor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayleigh 6th Gear March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 LPPL. Employer will ask the S-Pass worker to return the extra amount back to boss's pocket. this has been happening all these years and someone is still closing two eyes. there are so many not so educated/ skilled FT holding S-pass in the market. maybe that FW cleaning the toilets are S-pass wor? why S- pass? boss no need pay levy lor. Are you sure that S pass no levy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer69 Clutched March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 Are you sure that S pass no levy? mybad, ok, cheaper levy than WP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happily1986 5th Gear March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 While i think there is no perfect system in the world and it is definitely not easy to come up with a good system, i really don't understand why the garment chooses to play the ostrich when it comes to foreigners trying to test the system. Are they really in the dark about all these malpractices? I don't want to say anything about the foreigners, it is human nature to try to take a crack at the system. If you can get free beer, why not right? What i am indignant is the apparent density displayed by the system administrators. If you can't design it well in the first place, well will do. Jolly well react and respond accordingly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard33 Neutral Newbie March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 Can I apply for s pass? I'm Singaporean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
13177 Hypersonic March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 S-pass holder and EP holder all don't have CPF contribution lo. Now by raising min wages for them, it means they are earning even more than s'porean! Seems like it is very good to be FTs than s'porean in sg, cause they are acts protecting them from employer giving them too low min wage! On the other hand, min wage for s'porean is not the same as those FTs. As such, employers can pay locals with basic pay as low as $1600 or even lower, if the locals have no choice but to take up the job offer! I know some locals with ITE cert, their basic pay can be $1500! Even given some allowances, gross salary per mth only abt $1800! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piyopico Supercharged March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 All I know is that FTs get a min wage and locals do not. Technically I can pay the locals less than the FTs cos there is no min. Dun say this does not happen. Look at all the oldies working in menial jobs. MOST of them get less than the min wage afforded to FTs. Some would argue this is actually good for them cos if they cost the same the employers would rather hire a younger and more eager FT. So the problem actually lies with the employers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgan Neutral Newbie March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 I dont see this as setting min wage. With the new system there will be WP for those below $2k, S-Pass for $2K to $2.8K, and EP for > $2.8k? I'm not sure on the EP part so please correct if I am wrong. Its up to the employer to determine how much the worker deserves and apply the appropriate pass for him. If the fella only deserves $1.8k, why should I go apply S-pass for him? so if its a general worker, obviously it will be WP but no where does it state what sort of minimum salary an employer will need to pay the worker. Agree, some employers have been known to falsely apply S-pass for workers but later take back a portion of the salary back from them so that actual salary < $2k. Simply for the low levy for S-pass, or even that under S-pass, the employer do not need to provide housing for them (another cost saved). But until someone in the loop pao tou, what can be done? What I am seeing is that by raising the minimum salary level, the govt is making it harder and more expensive for companies to anyhow apply for the higher level passes (s-pass and above). With now a min of $2k salary and levy going up up up, it makes more sense to hire a local who can do it with the same salary, or even less. But the problem with some locals is that they are very picky about their jobs, need 8-5pm la, near house la, no shift work la, no ad-hoc call out/svc jobs la, must be high pay la (even though no skill no experience) .. How to employ them like that? Take for example the recent case in the papers abt the 37 yr old SG warehouse assistant earning only $1200/mth. Even the warehouse asst in my company is earning at least $1600. Sow whose fault is it that he is where he is. There are jobs out there paying ok pay but locals need to less picky. Just for info, I'm a born n bred Singaporean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph22 Turbocharged March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 regarding the salary of warehouse assitant. do note that your company paying him quite well liao. different industries different rates. I dont see this as setting min wage. With the new system there will be WP for those below $2k, S-Pass for $2K to $2.8K, and EP for > $2.8k? I'm not sure on the EP part so please correct if I am wrong. Its up to the employer to determine how much the worker deserves and apply the appropriate pass for him. If the fella only deserves $1.8k, why should I go apply S-pass for him? so if its a general worker, obviously it will be WP but no where does it state what sort of minimum salary an employer will need to pay the worker. Agree, some employers have been known to falsely apply S-pass for workers but later take back a portion of the salary back from them so that actual salary < $2k. Simply for the low levy for S-pass, or even that under S-pass, the employer do not need to provide housing for them (another cost saved). But until someone in the loop pao tou, what can be done? What I am seeing is that by raising the minimum salary level, the govt is making it harder and more expensive for companies to anyhow apply for the higher level passes (s-pass and above). With now a min of $2k salary and levy going up up up, it makes more sense to hire a local who can do it with the same salary, or even less. But the problem with some locals is that they are very picky about their jobs, need 8-5pm la, near house la, no shift work la, no ad-hoc call out/svc jobs la, must be high pay la (even though no skill no experience) .. How to employ them like that? Take for example the recent case in the papers abt the 37 yr old SG warehouse assistant earning only $1200/mth. Even the warehouse asst in my company is earning at least $1600. Sow whose fault is it that he is where he is. There are jobs out there paying ok pay but locals need to less picky. Just for info, I'm a born n bred Singaporean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
13177 Hypersonic March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 Employer by default wld want to employ someone cheap and gd, and not someone who is gd but expensive. But if the employer wants to employ FTs, no choice and they have to comply with the rules by paying them min wage. So i guess the person who benefit most still the FTs themselves. In many company, not only oldies working getting less than the min wage afforded to FTs. Some locals who just graduated from sch also getting less than the min wage given to FTs lo. Or those without high qualification, the pay they are getting is very low. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgan Neutral Newbie March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 The aim for most business is to maximise profits. As a rational (albeit seemingly a little heartless) employer, I would rather hire someone who can output more per unit cost. That is the cold hard truth. These poor old folks without family to support them, and usually lowly educated or not even at all, need to be helped. On this point, with all the increase in GDP yr on yr, the govt should look into helping raise their salary co-sharing the increased salary with the worker. The money from the govt must go directly to the employee and not to CPF or someother scheme. And it should be always ongoing. Maybe the govt can do it in the form of tax rebates for employer who hire the old folks. And there is no min wage for foreign workers. Its all up to the employer how much they want to pay their employee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgan Neutral Newbie March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 agreed. Even with the increasing cost to employ a FT, but the FT still outputs more per unit cost to the company, there will still be a pull factor to employ the FT. The raising of the min wage cuts both ways, to increase cost to employer but could potentially gives better salary to the FT. But as I mentioned earlier, there are different tiers of work passes available, and as a law abiding employer, I would not bother to push a worker to S-pass if I know I can keep him in the WP level. On fresh grads (poly, ITE or uni) getting less than FT (I still maintain there is no min wage), they must understand the employer is rational. Fresh grads getting lower pay, but earning the exposure and experience, making use of the opportunities, then moving up, I think that is the way to go. I believe the singapore education has provided us with more than what we usually credit it for. Always aiming for the higher pay, less work job aint alway the best way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgan Neutral Newbie March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 (edited) regarding the salary of warehouse assitant. do note that your company paying him quite well liao. different industries different rates. but he still complains too low and thinking of going to other better jobs! so there are indeed better jobs to look forward to. We can start off low, but with hard work, aspiration, I believe Singaporeans can always make it. So lets say the $1200 fella decides to move on and find a better job, the employer might be tempted to hire a foreign worker to replace but with the increasing levy, the employer might be forced to think twice. Edited March 10, 2011 by Corgan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
13177 Hypersonic March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 (edited) but he still complains too low and thinking of going to other better jobs! so there are indeed better jobs to look forward to. We can start off low, but with hard work, aspiration, I believe Singaporeans can always make it. So lets say the $1200 fella decides to move on and find a better job, the employer might be tempted to hire a foreign worker to replace but with the increasing levy, the employer might be forced to think twice. Although hard work & aspiration, the person could make his way up and increase his pay. But if the person starts off quite a low wage, don't think the person wage can increase much. Unless the person is jumping to another company. If staying put in the same company, how much can the yearly increment be? Edited March 10, 2011 by 13177 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman888 Moderator March 10, 2011 Share March 10, 2011 (edited) Employers of SME want lower labour cost (which business doesn't!), why S Pass? * no levy, no cpf, * better experience (local no experience asking $1.8k, FT many years of experience for the same amt), * longer working hours (they wont complaint to MoM), and * able to tie the employee for a certain Period of time (will not happy happy no show or quit) --- all because local cannot match these requirement. Edited March 10, 2011 by Jman888 ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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