Horrible grammar from PAP CF

[Nikamura]

no... we come to the bottom line of the story..

does the kinder kids know how to spot those errors or understand what is right or wrong? NO?

unless its some elite kinder school? NO? u pay peanuts you get monkey!

why out of so many kinder school he picked PCF? i suspect it all boils down to the P!.

needless to say we all know this mr brown dont really like those MIW ..

so that pieces everything together? wait till he anger someone and get his ass sued.. then he'll kpkb even more.

[Joseph22]

this should clarify the take/bring/fetch/pickup issue

 

 

 

 

 

actually i know your point that in general the people in charge of the childcare may or may not have the relevant experience and/or qualifications.

isn't it such that something should be done about it, instead of just saying "its like that la" or "if want standard must pay more" ?

 

it is not as though i would like all the educators to be speaking the queen's english, but at least, the simple grammar should be correct. this is primary school level english you know, not some out of the world shakespearean literature stuff.

 

to me it seems like some have already given up even before the fight started.

 

the point is, are you willing to pay thousand over dollars to send your child to nursery?

 

a typical childcare teacher with a degree cert is earning only about 2K. and they do not have proper training as a teacher.

 

it is not just about the management level ppl.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Joseph22

[Flykite]

no... we come to the bottom line of the story..

does the kinder kids know how to spot those errors or understand what is right or wrong? NO?

unless its some elite kinder school? NO? u pay peanuts you get monkey!

why out of so many kinder school he picked PCF? i suspect it all boils down to the P!.

needless to say we all know this mr brown dont really like those MIW ..

so that pieces everything together? wait till he anger someone and get his ass sued.. then he'll kpkb even more.

 

it is precisely that the children do not understand and cannot spot those errors that it is wrong!

if they already mastered the language like most of us here, then it would have been just a simple matter of attempting to communicate.

 

it'll be fine if it was an internally circulated memo, but to use such language on an official document.... and coming from the ruling party's own childcare, is a disgraceful joke. So much talk and emphasis on communicating with good english by the govt, yet, in their own childcare they can't even get the basics right.

 

if this were some privately funded or run childcare, i think no one would have given a damn anyway.

 

joseph22: the issue is not about money or paying more or the typical PCF educator being paid peanuts.

The fact is if the govt sponsored educators can't even provide at the basic level, then what else can we expect of them?

[Hamburger]

here doggy doggy , FETCH, ok...........good boy

[Babyt]

u dont need degree holder for pre-sch lah....their knowledge and skills will be underused.

 

u dont need to use chim english to talk to these kids also. just A B C .... apple, orange, bee, flower ok liao

[Jetabout777]

got the gist?? i will say, he is totally ignorance of what is really going on in singapore child care center.

A finance manager without prior experience can also go in to be the principle of a childcare center mind you.

 

Ignorant? Please forgive me, but I don't think you are getting the bloody point because your english is no better than the principal's.

 

You don't need prior experience to compose a formal letter professionally. Why do you think I am not aware of the situation and reality of PAP's cc centre? I think one of my earlier posts stated that a close relative of mine who is a graduate works there and she's always complaining about the poor standards among the staff, be it teaching, handling kids, or even managing parents.

 

I know the reality and why should parents tolerate such standards? Why cannot these teachers be improved rather than have sub-standard skills? Those complacent with the status quo of the low standards among pre-school teachers are obviously not too concerned with their child's wellbeing and development. Probably they are just treating the centre as an alternative to a babysitter?

 

Bottomline is very clear. If you are an educator or teacher, it does not matter how much you are being remunerated. You still have the professional obligation to impart decent levels of knowledge (basic english not queen's english) to your customer (student). No worries because MOE knows this and they are currently doing something about it. You just need to tweak your mindset to have an attitude of seeking improvement rather than enjoy the status quo.

[Jetabout777]

u dont need degree holder for pre-sch lah....their knowledge and skills will be underused.

 

u dont need to use chim english to talk to these kids also. just A B C .... apple, orange, bee, flower ok liao

 

I think many underestimate the potential for learning among children. Imparting the correct knowledge and attitudes at a young age can have long term effects on the child when he/she grows up. Explaining concepts and how things work to toddlers in simple and proper language will stimulate learning and prompt the little bugger to ask why every now and then, though he/she may not pick up everything immediately. A kid's brain is like a sponge.

[Apottedplant]

We shouldn't take any of these bloggers too seriously. It is obvious enough that he, Mr. Brown, is not excelling at his day job, and has to resort to blogging to gain a little self gratification for himself. If he's that unhappy with Singapore, he can either go into politics and represent the people's (or his own) interest, or stfu and leave Singapore. Unconstructive criticism is useless. We get it enough for our (not always friendly) neighbours already. Don't need this rubbish from him.

[Jman888]

Ignorant? Please forgive me, but I don't think you are getting the bloody point because your english is no better than the principal's.

 

You don't need prior experience to compose a formal letter professionally. Why do you think I am not aware of the situation and reality of PAP's cc centre? I think one of my earlier posts stated that a close relative of mine who is a graduate works there and she's always complaining about the poor standards among the staff, be it teaching, handling kids, or even managing parents.

 

I know the reality and why should parents tolerate such standards? Why cannot these teachers be improved rather than have sub-standard skills? Those complacent with the status quo of the low standards among pre-school teachers are obviously not too concerned with their child's wellbeing and development. Probably they are just treating the centre as an alternative to a babysitter?

 

Bottomline is very clear. If you are an educator or teacher, it does not matter how much you are being remunerated. You still have the professional obligation to impart decent levels of knowledge (basic english not queen's english) to your customer (student). No worries because MOE knows this and they are currently doing something about it. You just need to tweak your mindset to have an attitude of seeking improvement rather than enjoy the status quo.

 

 

 

I believe most of us are educated and have certain expectation, while you expect the teacher to be professional and have standard in PCF, will you send your kids to these pre-sch? Most won't so it is easy for us to criticize.

 

Because of such expectation, MOE now wants all teachers/baby sitter with a degree, and a neighborhood PAP childcre will charge $800 a month, and the elite or higher class will charge $4000 a month (they now need a master or phd to do their job). Govt will tell you if this is your expected standard, you pay the price, same for car, medical, and hdb.

 

 

 

 

[Joseph22]

Ignorant? Please forgive me, but I don't think you are getting the bloody point because your english is no better than the principal's.

 

Oh. so you only know how to call other ppl kettle when you are a pot

 

You don't need prior experience to compose a formal letter professionally. Why do you think I am not aware of the situation and reality of PAP's cc centre? I think one of my earlier posts stated that a close relative of mine who is a graduate works there and she's always complaining about the poor standards among the staff, be it teaching, handling kids, or even managing parents.

 

Tell that to my CEO from Europe.

 

any i say that you don't know the reality is because you don't face reality even though you have the knowledge of what is going on inside.

 

I know the reality and why should parents tolerate such standards? Why cannot these teachers be improved rather than have sub-standard skills? Those complacent with the status quo of the low standards among pre-school teachers are obviously not too concerned with their child's wellbeing and development. Probably they are just treating the centre as an alternative to a babysitter?

 

No, you don't know the reality.

Not that i want to quote from PAP but to increase standard. you have to pay them Top dollar. Professionalism come as a price. Are you willing to pay them?

 

Bottomline is very clear. If you are an educator or teacher, it does not matter how much you are being remunerated. You still have the professional obligation to impart decent levels of knowledge (basic english not queen's english) to your customer (student). No worries because MOE knows this and they are currently doing something about it. You just need to tweak your mindset to have an attitude of seeking improvement rather than enjoy the status quo.

 

The bottomline is also very clear. what is the job of the childcare teacher?? teach our kids. so what if their letter writing are not good. as long as they get the job done and well its enough.

 

Mind you, my secondary school math teacher english is one of the worse that i had encounter. but his teaching passion resulted in my whole class scoring above what is expected of us.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Joseph22

[Ahhuat]

Ignorant? Please forgive me, but I don't think you are getting the bloody point because your english is no better than the principal's.

 

You don't need prior experience to compose a formal letter professionally. Why do you think I am not aware of the situation and reality of PAP's cc centre? I think one of my earlier posts stated that a close relative of mine who is a graduate works there and she's always complaining about the poor standards among the staff, be it teaching, handling kids, or even managing parents.

 

I know the reality and why should parents tolerate such standards? Why cannot these teachers be improved rather than have sub-standard skills? Those complacent with the status quo of the low standards among pre-school teachers are obviously not too concerned with their child's wellbeing and development. Probably they are just treating the centre as an alternative to a babysitter?

 

Bottomline is very clear. If you are an educator or teacher, it does not matter how much you are being remunerated. You still have the professional obligation to impart decent levels of knowledge (basic english not queen's english) to your customer (student). No worries because MOE knows this and they are currently doing something about it. You just need to tweak your mindset to have an attitude of seeking improvement rather than enjoy the status quo.

 

The discussions on this post have been quite comical. There's a group who's still unsure which parts of this memo are grammatically correct or incorrect. There's a bunch who clearly do not have a grasp of the language and argue that as long as they are understood, it's fine. (My argument to that is that as long as you are full after a meal, dont complain about the poor service and lousy experience.) There's another bunch who's bringing the MOE into the picture, when the MOE clearly doesnt mandate pre-schools the way people think that they do. Remember, compulsory education is only from P1-P6. Pre-school education is not mandatory. The argument that regardless of renumeration, basic english should be imparted - isnt that requiring a person to perform miracles despite their education, pay them less than they are worth? Then I should have lots of expectations from my fellow Singaporeans. How is that possible in Singapore when educated people of executive levels cannot articulate themselves better than this principal? Remember that a principal of PCF is not the same as a principal in a school. The levels of education in the latter are expectedly lower. So if my fellow lazy Singaporeans want a good quality pre-school experience, probably akin to that of Lorna Whiston, coming out of PCF, are they willing to pay the price? Govt subsidies would then be the argument and my counter argument to that is that I'm tired of paying so much in taxes for lazy bums who cant afford anything in life... it's not my problem that the kids who are in PCF had lazy parents who didnt earn enough to put them in a better run pre-school.

 

I'm not supporting the pre-school principal in this case, but highlighting that there's a systemic problem in this matter to be addressed and it's not as simplistic as my fellow simpleton Singaporeans would like it to be.

[Ahhuat]

Oh. so you only know how to call other ppl kettle when you are a pot

 

 

 

Tell that to my CEO from Europe.

 

any i say that you don't know the reality is because you don't face reality even though you have the knowledge of what is going on inside.

 

 

 

No, you don't know the reality.

Not that i want to quote from PAP but to increase standard. you have to pay them Top dollar. Professionalism come as a price. Are you willing to pay them?

 

 

 

The bottomline is also very clear. what is the job of the childcare teacher?? teach our kids. so what if their letter writing are not good. as long as they get the job done and well its enough.

 

Mind you, my secondary school math teacher english is one of the worse that i had encounter. but his teaching passion resulted in my whole class scoring above what is expected of us.

 

agreed. reality aludes my fellow singaporeans. they pay peanuts but dont expect monkeys. Do they not see the link in the low pre-school fees they pay and the low salaries of pre-school teachers and principals? Do they not know that a pre-school teacher regularly earns between $1,200 and $1,500 per month? Queen's English for that price? Come on Mr Brown!

 

Ah Lian & Ah Beng parents who were too busy being in gangs, screwing around when ppl like me were studying hard now want the same piece of the pie that I have. Sorry, too bad. We're not a communist state.

[Flykite]

I believe most of us are educated and have certain expectation, while you expect the teacher to be professional and have standard in PCF, will you send your kids to these pre-sch? Most won't so it is easy for us to criticize.

 

Because of such expectation, MOE now wants all teachers/baby sitter with a degree, and a neighborhood PAP childcre will charge $800 a month, and the elite or higher class will charge $4000 a month (they now need a master or phd to do their job). Govt will tell you if this is your expected standard, you pay the price, same for car, medical, and hdb.

 

i dont see the reason why we should be paying top dollar if the only additional requirement is TO USE GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT ENGLISH.

elite pre-schools charge $4,000 a month but the difference is not only just the language. Jman888's argument fails here because I'm not asking to pay top dollar for some teacher with a masters in child development or another with a degree child psychology,

 

it is that hard to use proper english with children?

do you need to attain a PhD level to learn and use correct english? definitely no.

all the basics are taught way before primary 6.

 

it is worrying because if we don't get the foundations right, everything else that we are going to build on top of it will then be wrong.

 

No, you don't know the reality.

Not that i want to quote from PAP but to increase standard. you have to pay them Top dollar. Professionalism come as a price. Are you willing to pay them?

 

You have to separate the discussion here:

one is about using proper grammatically correct english with pre-school children, which obviously is a skill that doesn't command high specialisation,

versus the other,

about paying top dollar for the specialised skills of true professional certified caretakers.

 

and then to answer your question:

Yes, i am willing to pay top dollar if the caretakers are fully qualified in eg. cognitive learning, child development, behaviourial sciences, etc. Yes, i will pay top dollar for THAT, and not top dollar for them to use proper english.

 

The bottomline is also very clear. what is the job of the childcare teacher?? teach our kids. so what if their letter writing are not good. as long as they get the job done and well its enough.

 

but hey, to use proper english, is it THAT difficult? especially in official documents that carry the ruling party's letterhead.

it could have been proofread before release. Do we need to pay top dollar for that too? surely someone in the CF can do that!

 

Don't tell me none of the teachers in the CF are capable of it??!!

That will be a nightmare come true for many of us here!

 

It is also not about their letter writing skills. We can infer their standard of english simply from the kind of words and phrases used in the letter, which, tell us that this principal doesn't have a good command of english. Which then we infer, that the teachers' standard should have been worse, and my child would have been better off not enrolled there, and i would have saved $800.

 

Tell that to my CEO from Europe

 

You have your corporate top executive from europe speaking sub-standard english because:

1. he didn't get his basics right, which forms the basis of this discussion, or,

2. He doesn't hail from england.

 

from europe doesn't mean he can speak english fluently. He can be spanish, french, german, belgian, dutch, czech, hungarian, italian, portugese, romanian, polish, etc. and doesnt mean all angmoh can speak proper english.

 

or think of it this way:

you go to paris and the frenchmen there expect you to be able to speak tiếng việt, because almost every asian they meet in that city is vietnamese.

 

Mind you, my secondary school math teacher english is one of the worse that i had encounter. but his teaching passion resulted in my whole class scoring above what is expected of us.

 

then again, in your time, he was probably teaching in a chinese medium before legislation required that he do it in english. i'm sure you'd be surprised if he taught your class english instead of maths.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Flykite

[Joseph22]

i dont see the reason why we should be paying top dollar if the only additional requirement is TO USE GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT ENGLISH.

elite pre-schools charge $4,000 a month but the difference is not only just the language. Jman888's argument fails here because I'm not asking to pay top dollar for some teacher with a masters in child development or another with a degree child psychology,

 

 

it is that hard to use proper english with children?

do you need to attain a PhD level to learn and use correct english? definitely no.

all the basics are taught way before primary 6.

 

it is worrying because if we don't get the foundations right, everything else that we are going to build on top of it will then be wrong.

 

Again this show that you are not facing reality

 

You have to separate the discussion here:

one is about using proper grammatically correct english with pre-school children, which obviously is a skill that doesn't command high specialisation,

versus the other,

about paying top dollar for the specialised skills of true professional certified caretakers.

 

This line show that you are not facing reality too. cause the reality is that you want everything in it. you have to pay more.

 

and then to answer your question:

Yes, i am willing to pay top dollar if the caretakers are fully qualified in eg. cognitive learning, child development, behaviourial sciences, etc. Yes, i will pay top dollar for THAT, and not top dollar for them to use proper english.

 

Ah... there you go. this is what i call facing reality. now what is the problem you were mentioning about principle langauge if that is not your main concern??

 

but hey, to use proper english, is it THAT difficult? especially in official documents that carry the ruling party's letterhead.

it could have been proofread before release. Do we need to pay top dollar for that too? surely someone in the CF can do that!

 

Ah. you are not living in reality again

 

Don't tell me none of the teachers in the CF are capable of it??!!

That will be a nightmare come true for many of us here!

 

again not living in reality

 

It is also not about their letter writing skills. We can infer their standard of english simply from the kind of words and phrases used in the letter, which, tell us that this principal doesn't have a good command of english. Which then we infer, that the teachers' standard should have been worse, and my child would have been better off not enrolled there, and i would have saved $800.

 

PCF school fee is less than S$500

 

You have your corporate top executive from europe speaking sub-standard english because:

1. he didn't get his basics right, which forms the basis of this discussion, or,

2. He doesn't hail from england.

 

Ah. but base on your initial suggestion. these ppl are lowly educated

 

from europe doesn't mean he can speak english fluently. He can be spanish, french, german, belgian, dutch, czech, hungarian, italian, portugese, romanian, polish, etc. and doesnt mean all angmoh can speak proper english.

 

So those ppl are entitle not to speak english fluently but we singaporean chinese,malays and indians are not allow? why is there are dispair between asian and ang mo?? because Ang Mo Tua Kee and Tua Liap??

 

or think of it this way:

you go to paris and the frenchmen there expect you to be able to speak tiếng việt, because almost every asian they meet in that city is vietnamese.

 

So you expect all singaporean to speak english fluenctly??

 

then again, in your time, he was probably teaching in a chinese medium before legislation required that he do it in english. i'm sure you'd be surprised if he taught your class english instead of maths.

No he is not and had never teach chinese medium. he is a teacher and HOD after Singapore change all education medium to english.

Yes i will be surprise if he teach me english because he admit to us that his english cannot make it. but told us. all we need to do is work hard and we can reach his position.

 

[Joseph22]

agreed. reality aludes my fellow singaporeans. they pay peanuts but dont expect monkeys. Do they not see the link in the low pre-school fees they pay and the low salaries of pre-school teachers and principals? Do they not know that a pre-school teacher regularly earns between $1,200 and $1,500 per month? Queen's English for that price? Come on Mr Brown!

 

Ah Lian & Ah Beng parents who were too busy being in gangs, screwing around when ppl like me were studying hard now want the same piece of the pie that I have. Sorry, too bad. We're not a communist state.

 

i had agree to most of your post except for this stupid elites mentality that ppl who send their childern to PCF are Ah Lian and Ah Beng. :angry:

 

i study as hard as you and is consider a Nerd in my school days. but i still prefer to send my children to PCF and teach and correct them at home. you where pain?? to me those expensive childcare are over rated. till date, i dont see much different in the children except maybe some speak with a slang. the only different real i see is the arrogant parents nia. :angry:

 

BTW, those ah lian and Ah beng you mention. no mola to send children to childcare one.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Joseph22

[Jman888]

i dont see the reason why we should be paying top dollar if the only additional requirement is TO USE GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT ENGLISH.

elite pre-schools charge $4,000 a month but the difference is not only just the language. Jman888's argument fails here because I'm not asking to pay top dollar for some teacher with a masters in child development or another with a degree child psychology,

 

it is that hard to use proper english with children?

do you need to attain a PhD level to learn and use correct english? definitely no.

all the basics are taught way before primary 6.

 

it is worrying because if we don't get the foundations right, everything else that we are going to build on top of it will then be wrong.

 

 

i was stating the current fact which i see you have no idea of the standard out there, you can 'expect' how qualified the teacher should be but you aint get any of it as long as they are 'public' pre-school. Then my question to you is after you know of the standard, would you still put your kid in these schools and keep expecting them to meet your standard "or what can you do about it?"

 

as i said if you are still hoping the teacher should have this or that standard, and you have a kid, i believe as i said again have not sent them to these school... so we can criticise as much as we want but it won't change overnight.

[Jetabout777]

I tend to agree with many of your points. No point arguing further imho.

[Jetabout777]

I'm not supporting the pre-school principal in this case, but highlighting that there's a systemic problem in this matter to be addressed and it's not as simplistic as my fellow simpleton Singaporeans would like it to be.

 

Good point raised..