Nikolaiski Neutral Newbie January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 Hello all, I rarely post here, but would appreciate if any more experienced bros here know what i'm in for. Anyways, I drive a run-off-the-mill CS5 Ralliart Lancer. The old one..with the sucky GDI turbo... I've recently changed to Brembos from an Evo 9 front and back (stock, the car already comes with discs front and rear) expecting the braking to be way better. To my horror, it became WORSE. Now this, despite the steel brake lines, WELL-BLED (multiple times, 4 bottles of Ferrodo brake fluid) hydraulics, alignment and installation checks, etc etc... I'm starting to suspect the brake pump doesn't have enough power to distribute the fluid around. A look into an Evo's bonnet reveals that the pump is indeed bigger (double layer, one line to the rear, one to the front) as compared to my car (two lines to the front and one line to the rear) Are there any after-market master servos/pumps/etc etc that you guys know of that will fit? Gunna try to buy an Evo master cylinder and pump tomo to see if it helps...any input is much appreciated. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galantspeedz Turbocharged January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 What tyres you using? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ml2spin 2nd Gear January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 You're on the right track I think -- probably your CS5 brake master cylinder doesn't match up to the Brembos... but then what do I know?? Hello all, I rarely post here, but would appreciate if any more experienced bros here know what i'm in for. Anyways, I drive a run-off-the-mill CS5 Ralliart Lancer. The old one..with the sucky GDI turbo... I've recently changed to Brembos from an Evo 9 front and back (stock, the car already comes with discs front and rear) expecting the braking to be way better. To my horror, it became WORSE. Now this, despite the steel brake lines, WELL-BLED (multiple times, 4 bottles of Ferrodo brake fluid) hydraulics, alignment and installation checks, etc etc... I'm starting to suspect the brake pump doesn't have enough power to distribute the fluid around. A look into an Evo's bonnet reveals that the pump is indeed bigger (double layer, one line to the rear, one to the front) as compared to my car (two lines to the front and one line to the rear) Are there any after-market master servos/pumps/etc etc that you guys know of that will fit? Gunna try to buy an Evo master cylinder and pump tomo to see if it helps...any input is much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakabobo Clutched January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 master cylinder no power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Clutched January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 if it ran off the mill you'd be in trouble already. OF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiaoming99 Neutral Newbie January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 Yup, change to evo brake pump, i had the same problem after changing just the fronts to brembos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celicar Turbocharged January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 I'm starting to suspect the brake pump doesn't have enough power to distribute the fluid around. A look into an Evo's bonnet reveals that the pump is indeed bigger (double layer, one line to the rear, one to the front) as compared to my car (two lines to the front and one line to the rear) This is a very useful thread, I didn't know change to BBBBBBK can have such problems. But I dun quite understand, seems your Lancer has more places to pump (3 lines, vs. Evo 2 lines), so shouldn't it be designed to work harder? Then again, my knowledge about such things minimal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolaiski Neutral Newbie January 23, 2011 Author Share January 23, 2011 bro Galantspeedz..i'm on 17" 215/45 Goodyear RS Sports on 7.5jj rims.. Anyway, I guess those running mini 6 or mini 4 pots don't have much to complain about, although i distinctly recall even the stock brakes having a hard time keeping up.. But yeah, change to BBBBBBBBBBBBBBKKKKKKK in a car that isn't designed for it, is problematic, needless to say...hahaha thanks for the input guys....will see how it goes tomo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good-Carbuyer 1st Gear January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 Hello all, I rarely post here, but would appreciate if any more experienced bros here know what i'm in for. Anyways, I drive a run-off-the-mill CS5 Ralliart Lancer. The old one..with the sucky GDI turbo... I've recently changed to Brembos from an Evo 9 front and back (stock, the car already comes with discs front and rear) expecting the braking to be way better. To my horror, it became WORSE. Now this, despite the steel brake lines, WELL-BLED (multiple times, 4 bottles of Ferrodo brake fluid) hydraulics, alignment and installation checks, etc etc... I'm starting to suspect the brake pump doesn't have enough power to distribute the fluid around. A look into an Evo's bonnet reveals that the pump is indeed bigger (double layer, one line to the rear, one to the front) as compared to my car (two lines to the front and one line to the rear) Are there any after-market master servos/pumps/etc etc that you guys know of that will fit? Gunna try to buy an Evo master cylinder and pump tomo to see if it helps...any input is much appreciated. So sorry you did not check around beforehand... No mention why you drive a run-off-the-mill car with sucky turbo No mention why you changed to Brembos No mention what was the performance like before the change No mention exactly what is the performance after the change No mention how much bigger is the pump you found in the Evo No mention if you are doing this for hobby No mention if you are changing for the sake of changing I believe unlikely we can give you comment which you find to be helpful/useful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ER-3682 Twincharged January 23, 2011 Share January 23, 2011 Standard brakes already good enough for your everyday use,except you going racing,no point waste your $$. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardthy 1st Gear January 24, 2011 Share January 24, 2011 change back to stock, pse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beehive3783 Turbocharged January 24, 2011 Share January 24, 2011 So sorry you did not check around beforehand... No mention why you drive a run-off-the-mill car with sucky turbo No mention why you changed to Brembos No mention what was the performance like before the change No mention exactly what is the performance after the change No mention how much bigger is the pump you found in the Evo No mention if you are doing this for hobby No mention if you are changing for the sake of changing I believe unlikely we can give you comment which you find to be helpful/useful Then you post for fark? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona-vie 1st Gear January 24, 2011 Share January 24, 2011 Sounds like your brake master cylinder unable to create enough force. BBK also needs more force to create more friction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galantspeedz Turbocharged January 24, 2011 Share January 24, 2011 bro Galantspeedz..i'm on 17" 215/45 Goodyear RS Sports on 7.5jj rims.. Anyway, I guess those running mini 6 or mini 4 pots don't have much to complain about, although i distinctly recall even the stock brakes having a hard time keeping up.. But yeah, change to BBBBBBBBBBBBBBKKKKKKK in a car that isn't designed for it, is problematic, needless to say...hahaha thanks for the input guys....will see how it goes tomo. i rem you are a car reviewer for some car website? hope you got your answer... good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuoom 1st Gear January 24, 2011 Share January 24, 2011 have a read at those article from stoptech. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_abs_bigbrakekits.shtml The Potential Impacts Of "Big Brakes" Let's now take the exact same scenario, but add a twist: you are returning home from having that long-sought-after big brake kit installed. You know, the one that required new 18" wheels to clear the 8-piston calipers and 16" rotors. Driving around the parking lot you couldn't believe the improvement in pedal feel and initial bite they displayed. These things must really throw a boat anchor behind the car at high speeds, right? Well, let's see Resisting the temptation to run in the fast lane at triple-digit speeds, you once again find yourself behind the spring water truck at 75 MPH. Barrels fly and you again lay on the brakes, but with the increased confidence of your new hardware to slow you down in time. Plus, you now know how the ABS works, so you lay into the pedal, confident that you will have both deceleration and steerability. It couldn't get any better. Like scenario 1, after the initial 50, 100, and 150 milliseconds the ABS takes snapshots of the wheel speed information and registers 0.91g's, 1.36g's, and 4.1g's on the left front wheel. Again the ABS quickly comes to the conclusion that, unlike the left front wheel at this moment, the car cannot possibly be decelerating at 4.1g's. Best case is that the car was decelerating at 1.0g (or thereabouts) over the last 50ms, so the 'real' vehicle speed is still somewhere around 71.5 MPH, even though the left front wheel speed is reading 68 MPH - a 3.5 MPH error. So far, so good - just like last time. Here's where things start to get interesting, though. ABS enters "isolation mode" and shuts off the hydraulic line from the master cylinder to the left front caliper, isolating the driver from applying more pressure. Next, the ABS starts work in "decrease mode," and once again calculates that 10ms are required to the excess pressure from the left front caliper in order to allow the left front wheel to reaccelerate back up to the vehicle's actual speed - 71.5 MPH in this case. Unfortunately, this calculation was based on the standard vehicle's pressure-torque characteristics of the left front caliper/pad/rotor assembly. Let's talk about this briefly while the barrels roll in closer. Pressure-Torque And Pressure-Volume Relationships When a braking system is designed and installed, the components are chosen to provide a certain deceleration level for a certain amount of force applied by the driver to the brake pedal. While the overall relationship is critical, there are many ways to achieve the same end Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfy3769 2nd Gear January 24, 2011 Share January 24, 2011 look like cheaper and easier to just install the BBK cover than actually doing the conversion... was thinking changing brake kits was a simple job.. doesnt know that it can be so complicated. TS, kindly update once u had solve ur problem..it will be a good learning experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolaiski Neutral Newbie February 1, 2011 Author Share February 1, 2011 (edited) look like cheaper and easier to just install the BBK cover than actually doing the conversion... was thinking changing brake kits was a simple job.. doesnt know that it can be so complicated. TS, kindly update once u had solve ur problem..it will be a good learning experience. Sorry, but why would anyone want to install a BBK COVER only? It does not contribute to the performance of the car's braking system and all it does is make your brakes look all the more "fake"...haha. for eg, no way that a Project Miu bbk cover be using your stock brake disc right? Anyway, I'm not after looks, but performance as I live 10 mins away from PG and I drive to KL very often, so a 4/2 pot BBK suits my needs. Unfortunately, there aren't much QUALITY brake kits available for my particular ride, so bo bian, have to customize a set from an Evo 9. Ie. even if I buy something like VTTR or ATS for my front, my rear still needs to be upgraded and the only thing that fits are the Evo's brembo calipers and rotors. Wish I bought a WRX or Forester instead...lol ANYWAY, very lo-so... Bought the brake master pump, yet to fix it to the car - will only do it once my PU bushings and struts (coilovers) have arrived - this should be interesting. Bro Zuoom...yes I actually read this article a while back - unfortunately only AFTER the upgraded brake master pump is installed, I will actually have to find an isolated road to slam on the car's brakes at 180 km/h in order to see what the hell will happen and whether the stock ABS is enough. IF it isn't, then visit scrap yard again lor! ahahaha Edited February 1, 2011 by Nikolaiski Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolaiski Neutral Newbie February 1, 2011 Author Share February 1, 2011 So sorry you did not check around beforehand... No mention why you drive a run-off-the-mill car with sucky turbo No mention why you changed to Brembos No mention what was the performance like before the change No mention exactly what is the performance after the change No mention how much bigger is the pump you found in the Evo No mention if you are doing this for hobby No mention if you are changing for the sake of changing I believe unlikely we can give you comment which you find to be helpful/useful ha ha ha very funny. If i actually KNEW all these things, would I be posting on here? -_________- thanks ah bro. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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