Low birth trick question.

[Darthrevan]

no more called ministers, now new name:- ministARs!!!

 

MiniStars? 小星星?

[Kyrios]

Sad to say..beri myopic view from the ruling gahmen...

 

no fresh ideas each time confronted with an issue...same old tactics...increase cost if not.....invite FT...

 

yesterday WKS said low birth rate therefore need to invite more FTs..but even if we give him record high birth rate I guess he will also say invite more FTs..

 

sigh...wonder if there is a chance to have a dialogue with Lee Hsien Loong..SG cannot proceed in such a way forever.

[Jasonjst]

if the 1.2 replacement birthdate is too low from the locals, and one solution is to keep importing ready FT to make up the short fall.

 

I am puzzled, these FT are middle age mostly, say above 30s.

Will these FT have the 2.1 birth rate to keep Singapore population young?

So when we reach 7million with these FT, ten years later these FT will also grow old to become the aged in Singapore.

By that time where will the 2.1 replacement rate come from?

 

We need NEWborn at the rate of 2.1 to maintain a healthy population n society.

 

I think importing FT is only delaying the issues for another ~10 years, by that time it will be a bigger issues!

 

Therefor I think the simplistic argument that we need Import FT is unsustainable.

Unless these FT will sumpar to produce 2.1 babies in order to become PR/citizens, else it's a time bomb just waiting to explode sooner or later!

 

Fully agree ,

Assume that at current birth rate of 1.2 , we need to import 2mil FTs , total population 6mil

10years time , 80% become old , they will say need to import 4mil FTs to replace the old workers.

Unless we can export the 80% old workers , our population will be 9mil inorder to maintain the same young workfore .

The import of FTs will be exponential , as birth rate will drop to 0.5 ?

 

 

[Good-Carbuyer]

if the 1.2 replacement birthdate is too low from the locals, and one solution is to keep importing ready FT to make up the short fall.

 

I am puzzled, these FT are middle age mostly, say above 30s.

Will these FT have the 2.1 birth rate to keep Singapore population young?

So when we reach 7million with these FT, ten years later these FT will also grow old to become the aged in Singapore.

By that time where will the 2.1 replacement rate come from?

 

We need NEWborn at the rate of 2.1 to maintain a healthy population n society.

 

I think importing FT is only delaying the issues for another ~10 years, by that time it will be a bigger issues!

 

Therefor I think the simplistic argument that we need Import FT is unsustainable.

Unless these FT will sumpar to produce 2.1 babies in order to become PR/citizens, else it's a time bomb just waiting to explode sooner or later!

If you are kidding with us, this is ticklish.

I believe it could be the other way round. The immigration brings in inflation that can effectively control the birth rate among locals, and immigrants later. You may be aware that it is the youth that counts when seeking re-employment around. Most immigrants are below age 40. The reason locals above age 40 can be the rejected job applicants, if both have the same academic qualifications. Since we need to import almost everything we need, the most effective method is to control the local birth rate. The immigrants will follow/repeat the low birth rate due to the inflation they brought. We create/ grow our own problem?

[Evillusion]

we pay thems millions of dollars just for them to say: (please add on if u like)

 

1. it happens one in a century

2. u cannot take your money out when u are 55 because most likely u will end up spending it all.

3. who will built ur houses and clean the road.

4. u singaporean are not productive enough so we must get foreign talent to increase productivity and procreate.

5.

6

7.

8.

9.

[Sgnick]

Some of my friends do not have kids because of the cost of living in Singapore. Yes, both are working, so survival is not an issue, but they cannot save a lot of money monthly, so if have 1 kid = no more savings. If have 2 kids = ???? Without savings, how to send the kid for higher education in future?

 

HDB so expensive (not enough living space for more kids) , cars so expensive (difficulty in transport with multiple kids), salary so so for 2x diploma holders (difficulty in saving up for multiple childrens needs), childcare subsidy so little yet both parents need to work, primary school so tough yet preschool enrichment is so expensive with no subsidy, medical and birth cost is subsidized but is not cheap either.

 

The current Baby Bonus, 4 months maternity, infant/childcare subsidy, is not enough to solve the root of the problem, which is MONEY NO ENUF

 

Some suggestion:

Free or almost free Education for youth citizens - all levels up to basic degree

Free prenatal medical fees, delivery+hospitalization all free

Free medical/hospitalization for children up to 6 years old

Special HDB grants based on number of kids that the couple have, more kids more grant but of cos with limit- eg $50K per kid

Higher infantcare/childcare subsidy

Reduce further or remove totally maid levy for those with 2 or more kids

Revamp K1-primary school education system, it sucks, children without extra preschool enrichment education knowledge (read=money) are actually labelled by the pri schools educators as slow and hard to teach and given "special" treatment. Then they will ask the parents to get tuition (read=money) for their kids.

[Tigerr1001]

We need to learn how to sacrifice and then only you dont face this money not enuff problem. In the past, the older generation including my parents, they sacrifice their time by doing more jobs and keep all the money for the kids education. They seldom go holidays or eating out and thus can save enuff $$$. But, now, look at the people excuses??? Everytime not enough money, of course if you dont repeat what the older generation had done, sure, everyone trying to avoid having more babies. They dont know how to sacrifice or sacrifice enuff to raise the kids. They themselves have been pampered and thus likes to enjoy good life and thus not willing to incur the cost of raising kids. Dont know true or not.

 

 

Some of my friends do not have kids because of the cost of living in Singapore. Yes, both are working, so survival is not an issue, but they cannot save a lot of money monthly, so if have 1 kid = no more savings. If have 2 kids = ???? Without savings, how to send the kid for higher education in future?

 

HDB so expensive (not enough living space for more kids) , cars so expensive (difficulty in transport with multiple kids), salary so so for 2x diploma holders (difficulty in saving up for multiple childrens needs), childcare subsidy so little yet both parents need to work, primary school so tough yet preschool enrichment is so expensive with no subsidy, medical and birth cost is subsidized but is not cheap either.

 

The current Baby Bonus, 4 months maternity, infant/childcare subsidy, is not enough to solve the root of the problem, which is MONEY NO ENUF

 

Some suggestion:

Free or almost free Education for youth citizens - all levels up to basic degree

Free prenatal medical fees, delivery+hospitalization all free

Free medical/hospitalization for children up to 6 years old

Special HDB grants based on number of kids that the couple have, more kids more grant but of cos with limit- eg $50K per kid

Higher infantcare/childcare subsidy

Reduce further or remove totally maid levy for those with 2 or more kids

Revamp K1-primary school education system, it sucks, children without extra preschool enrichment education knowledge (read=money) are actually labelled by the pri schools educators as slow and hard to teach and given "special" treatment. Then they will ask the parents to get tuition (read=money) for their kids.

 

[Yeshe]

Some of my friends do not have kids because of the cost of living in Singapore. Yes, both are working, so survival is not an issue, but they cannot save a lot of money monthly, so if have 1 kid = no more savings. If have 2 kids = ???? Without savings, how to send the kid for higher education in future?

 

HDB so expensive (not enough living space for more kids) , cars so expensive (difficulty in transport with multiple kids), salary so so for 2x diploma holders (difficulty in saving up for multiple childrens needs), childcare subsidy so little yet both parents need to work, primary school so tough yet preschool enrichment is so expensive with no subsidy, medical and birth cost is subsidized but is not cheap either.

 

The current Baby Bonus, 4 months maternity, infant/childcare subsidy, is not enough to solve the root of the problem, which is MONEY NO ENUF

 

Some suggestion:

Free or almost free Education for youth citizens - all levels up to basic degree

Free prenatal medical fees, delivery+hospitalization all free

Free medical/hospitalization for children up to 6 years old

Special HDB grants based on number of kids that the couple have, more kids more grant but of cos with limit- eg $50K per kid

Higher infantcare/childcare subsidy

Reduce further or remove totally maid levy for those with 2 or more kids

Revamp K1-primary school education system, it sucks, children without extra preschool enrichment education knowledge (read=money) are actually labelled by the pri schools educators as slow and hard to teach and given "special" treatment. Then they will ask the parents to get tuition (read=money) for their kids.

 

asking the gov for $$$ is sibeh sibeh sibeh hard lah...

 

BUT asking the gov to take $$$ is knnbccb super easy, look at ERP, COE and the recent stamp duties on property using reasons of cooling measures

[Jman888]

We need to learn how to sacrifice and then only you dont face this money not enuff problem. In the past, the older generation including my parents, they sacrifice their time by doing more jobs and keep all the money for the kids education. They seldom go holidays or eating out and thus can save enuff $$$. But, now, look at the people excuses??? Everytime not enough money, of course if you dont repeat what the older generation had done, sure, everyone trying to avoid having more babies. They dont know how to sacrifice or sacrifice enuff to raise the kids. They themselves have been pampered and thus likes to enjoy good life and thus not willing to incur the cost of raising kids. Dont know true or not.

 

 

totally agree though i am partly guilty, but i contributed the 2 short of the require by 0.1

Edited January 18, 2011 by Jman888

[Mockngbrd]

if by FT they mean more PRC mei mei den ok lor

[Greatbirdlegend]

Better question for the PAP is why are Singaporeans not interested in having babies?

I suspect that they would rather not find answer to that.

I guess even when you struck spurs into someone's hide you still can't get them to care.

[Avant_stealth]

we pay thems millions of dollars just for them to say: (please add on if u like)

 

1. it happens one in a century

2. u cannot take your money out when u are 55 because most likely u will end up spending it all.

3. who will built ur houses and clean the road.

4. u singaporean are not productive enough so we must get foreign talent to increase productivity and procreate.

5. How much do you want? Do you want three meals in a hawker centre, food court or restaurant?

7.

8.

9.

 

 

my fav quote by vivian, "How much do you want? Do you want three meals in a hawker centre, food court or restaurant?". very useful when gg out with friends "u guys wan eat hwker centre, fd court or restruant ar?" But mostly i realised with sec sch classmates dk why always end up either in mid restaurant or cafe...but no harm cz once a while.

[Bystander50]

if the 1.2 replacement birthdate is too low from the locals, and one solution is to keep importing ready FT to make up the short fall.

 

I am puzzled, these FT are middle age mostly, say above 30s.

Will these FT have the 2.1 birth rate to keep Singapore population young?

So when we reach 7million with these FT, ten years later these FT will also grow old to become the aged in Singapore.

By that time where will the 2.1 replacement rate come from?

 

We need NEWborn at the rate of 2.1 to maintain a healthy population n society.

 

I think importing FT is only delaying the issues for another ~10 years, by that time it will be a bigger issues!

 

Therefor I think the simplistic argument that we need Import FT is unsustainable.

Unless these FT will sumpar to produce 2.1 babies in order to become PR/citizens, else it's a time bomb just waiting to explode sooner or later!

 

A FT getting PR or citizenship here will face the same problem as a local.

Cost of living and cost of raising a child.

Do you think they are stupid? Most will either have 1 child or none at all here, not forgetting, even if they do have, there is nothing to stop them from renouncing their citizenship at 11 years old and migrate out to escape NS.

These people after buying a house will be subjected to the same living expenses as us.

 

This is one of the long term effect we may see in time to come.

 

[Jman888]

We need to learn how to sacrifice and then only you dont face this money not enuff problem. In the past, the older generation including my parents, they sacrifice their time by doing more jobs and keep all the money for the kids education. They seldom go holidays or eating out and thus can save enuff $$$. But, now, look at the people excuses??? Everytime not enough money, of course if you dont repeat what the older generation had done, sure, everyone trying to avoid having more babies. They dont know how to sacrifice or sacrifice enuff to raise the kids. They themselves have been pampered and thus likes to enjoy good life and thus not willing to incur the cost of raising kids. Dont know true or not.

 

 

can't really blame the high cost of living....

 

blame the booming economy in the 70s-80s where our govt, our parents started to pamper us with comfortable living environment and lots of toy and luxury... and the western value of me, me first....

 

now why do i need to forgo my needs with the high cost of living?

[Bystander50]

Sad to say..beri myopic view from the ruling gahmen...

 

no fresh ideas each time confronted with an issue...same old tactics...increase cost if not.....invite FT...

 

yesterday WKS said low birth rate therefore need to invite more FTs..but even if we give him record high birth rate I guess he will also say invite more FTs..

 

sigh...wonder if there is a chance to have a dialogue with Lee Hsien Loong..SG cannot proceed in such a way forever.

 

If there had not been a uproar with so many people discussing about the influx of FTs, my bet is they would have continued importing in an exponential figure.

 

[Jpcc]

A FT getting PR or citizenship here will face the same problem as a local.

Cost of living and cost of raising a child.

Do you think they are stupid? Most will either have 1 child or none at all here, not forgetting, even if they do have, there is nothing to stop them from renouncing their citizenship at 11 years old and migrate out to escape NS.

These people after buying a house will be subjected to the same living expenses as us.

 

This is one of the long term effect we may see in time to come.

birds of the same feathers flock together.

A gahment who is very pragmatic and calculative, will also attract FT, PR, new immigrants who are as pragmatic and as calculative.

 

If gahment is not able to instill loyalty to born and bred sinkies after 20-30years of staying in this land. i wonder how gahment can let new settlers feel attached. When push come to shove, we will see how weak this social bonding can be. Especially with high gini index and elitist mentality.

 

Hard truths indeed.

[Kenneve888]

if the 1.2 replacement birthdate is too low from the locals, and one solution is to keep importing ready FT to make up the short fall.

 

I am puzzled, these FT are middle age mostly, say above 30s.

Will these FT have the 2.1 birth rate to keep Singapore population young?

So when we reach 7million with these FT, ten years later these FT will also grow old to become the aged in Singapore.

By that time where will the 2.1 replacement rate come from?

 

We need NEWborn at the rate of 2.1 to maintain a healthy population n society.

 

I think importing FT is only delaying the issues for another ~10 years, by that time it will be a bigger issues!

 

Therefor I think the simplistic argument that we need Import FT is unsustainable.

Unless these FT will sumpar to produce 2.1 babies in order to become PR/citizens, else it's a time bomb just waiting to explode sooner or later!

 

Just sack the million dollar Minister who cannot solve this problem tasked to him couple of years ago. Accountability and not coming out with excuses and quick fix. period.

 

[Bystander50]

Gov policies only solve short time issues and create a bigger issue later.

 

1. Stop at 2 policy.

20-30 years later, we have a low reproduction rate and need to import FTs to temporary solve the problem, and this in turn create another bigger problem later.

 

2. Oversupply and excess unsold HDB flats in the late 90s to mid 2000.

Slow the rate of new flats construction to force people to buy up these excess flats. Then now, caught by surprise on the housing demand and start all sorts of measures to "cool" the property market and runaway property prices.