Low birth trick question.

[SimonTan]

http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNew...119-259104.html

 

Singapore needs young immigrants: Lee Kuan Yew

 

Wed, Jan 19, 2011

AFP

 

SINGAPORE - Singapore needs young immigrants to save its economy from long-term decline as a result of a falling birth rate, elder statesman Lee Kuan Yew said in remarks published Wednesday.

 

"At these low birth rates, we will rapidly age and shrink," the 87-year-old Lee said in comments released to the local media after the government disclosed that the city-state's birth rate fell to a record low in 2010.

 

"So we need young immigrants. Otherwise our economy will slow down, like the Japanese economy. We will have a less dynamic and less thriving Singapore. This is not the future for our children and grandchildren," he added.

 

Lee's defence of immigration came amid increasingly vocal criticism in web forums and local media directed at foreigners, who now make up more than 20 percent of the population of five million.

 

Most of the foreign workers and immigrants come from China, Southeast Asia and India, reflecting Singapore's own ethnic mix.

 

The former leader said immigrants should be welcomed and integrated. "The first generation will take some time to integrate, but their children will be completely Singaporean," he said.

 

"They will increase our population and talent pool. Singapore will be vibrant and prosperous, not declining and ageing," he added.

 

The resident fertility rate - or number of babies born per woman - dipped to 1.16 in 2010, down from the previous record low of 1.22 in 2009, Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng, who coordinates population policy, said Monday.

 

The rate, which has fallen as more couples choose to have just one child and more people opt to remain single, is well below the 2.1 babies per woman needed for the population to replenish itself naturally.

 

Singapore rolled out the welcome mat for foreign workers during the 2004-2007 economic boom.

 

But after the 2008 global financial crisis, the government took a fresh look following complaints from citizens that foreigners were increasingly competing for jobs, housing, medical care and even space on metro trains.

 

The inflow of foreign workers has slowed and full citizens were given more social and other benefits over foreigners.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2011 by SimonTan

[Kkttt]

I don't think its fair to say all who are complaining about the high costs should just cut back on their indulgences and be able to fund kid(s). We still have to take into account many other reasons why this is not enough:

1. Higher cost of supporting oneself due to higher costs of living: Let's face it, inflation is going up faster than wages.

2. Less siblings to support parents: Due to stop at 2 campaign, many now find themselves having to support parents without help from siblings.

3. Longer lifespan of elders: Not uncommon for grandparents to be around when you already have kids. Although its a good thing, go figure how much more $ required to support.

4. Many more...

 

We can point here and there, but the problems won't go away. Importing replacements is a myopic solution.

[Tigerwoods]

Ytd I read Forum and some wrote that SG Gov spends $1.6B/YEAR on campaigns to promote Marriage and Having Babies

And the interesting thing is Europe countries give $1.5k/mth to Mothers who chose to stop work...

 

If SG needs 60k babies/YEAR to meet TFR = 2.1, then they should use this $1.6B to distribute to these Mothers :

 

Simply = 60,000 X 1,500/mth X 12 = $1.08B/Year

Savings = $0.52B/year maybe to offset Hospital fees...

 

I reckon this will be better than spending these money for YEARS without any success...

 

[Enye]

Ytd I read Forum and some wrote that SG Gov spends $1.6B/YEAR on campaigns to promote Marriage and Having Babies

And the interesting thing is Europe countries give $1.5k/mth to Mothers who chose to stop work...

 

If SG needs 60k babies/YEAR to meet TFR = 2.1, then they should use this $1.6B to distribute to these Mothers :

 

Simply = 60,000 X 1,500/mth X 12 = $1.08B/Year

Savings = $0.52B/year maybe to offset Hospital fees...

 

I reckon this will be better than spending these money for YEARS without any success...

 

From the Govt's perspective,

1. Spend $$ on campaign ----> GDP growth ($$ to advertising, 60000 mothers still remain in workforce plus import more FT)

2. Spend $$ on mothers like what you suggest ---> no GDP growth (no $$ to advertising plus 60000 mothers taken off the work force)

 

Scholars will choose 1 or 2?

[Unfair]

There is also a theory that they are trying to increase our chinese population at the same time.

 

You know how chinese families normally have very little children as compared to malays ?

 

Even the malaysians that become PR and citizens are chinese.

 

 

[Sgnick]

Ytd I read Forum and some wrote that SG Gov spends $1.6B/YEAR on campaigns to promote Marriage and Having Babies

And the interesting thing is Europe countries give $1.5k/mth to Mothers who chose to stop work...

 

If SG needs 60k babies/YEAR to meet TFR = 2.1, then they should use this $1.6B to distribute to these Mothers :

 

Simply = 60,000 X 1,500/mth X 12 = $1.08B/Year

Savings = $0.52B/year maybe to offset Hospital fees...

 

I reckon this will be better than spending these money for YEARS without any success...

 

They have surplus $6B you know? Dump all into boosting birthrate, confirm immediately work. $6B divide by 60K babies, each baby gets how much funding? $100K!!! Use that for their free infant care, child care, free education until Poly also no problem.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Sgnick

[Jaf78]

I also observed that in the past few years. Why are these grandparents allowed here? They not only not contributing economically, but adding to the burden of the new citizens. I think that the low birth rate is just an excuse. After all, getting foreigners here can induce spending and increase the nation's coffers..lodging, food, transport and the telco earnings..hmm..

[Perrier]

From the Govt's perspective,

1. Spend $$ on campaign ----> GDP growth ($$ to advertising, 60000 mothers still remain in workforce plus import more FT)

2. Spend $$ on mothers like what you suggest ---> no GDP growth (no $$ to advertising plus 60000 mothers taken off the work force)

 

Scholars will choose 1 or 2?

 

To add, their bonus is tied to the GDP. So the choice is clear.

[Gearoil]

Why ppl here like to drift here and there, rather than just give the frank and straightfroward answer to TS post?

 

The onlyanswer to the 'trick' question ( if it was ever a trick in the first place) is...

 

MONEY!!!!

 

Or rather the lack of it and the ability to make more of it, here in Sinkland for many Sinkie commoner!

 

Not enough money how to feed more mouths?

 

 

[Flykite]

We need to learn how to sacrifice and then only you dont face this money not enuff problem. In the past, the older generation including my parents, they sacrifice their time by doing more jobs and keep all the money for the kids education. They seldom go holidays or eating out and thus can save enuff $$$. But, now, look at the people excuses??? Everytime not enough money, of course if you dont repeat what the older generation had done, sure, everyone trying to avoid having more babies. They dont know how to sacrifice or sacrifice enuff to raise the kids. They themselves have been pampered and thus likes to enjoy good life and thus not willing to incur the cost of raising kids. Dont know true or not.

 

do second job? third job? like how? if i start work 8am and end around 9pm, how to pick up a second job? besides, are there any second jobs available for me? my contract with the first job states that i'm not allowed to moonlight, if i'm caught, i'll be terminated. and after 9pm, what kind of jobs are there for me? drive taxi? at the bar? pub? restaurant? dishwasher? geylang? i don't go on holidays at all, i have no choice but to eat out because i'm working from morning till night, but with one meal in the CBD costing at least $4-$5, how? and if i don't drive, i still have to spend money taking our premium world class public transport to do my second job, will i really make enough in the second job to break even for the time i spent working, including opportunity cost of lost sleep and lost family time?

[Perrier]

They have surplus $6B you know? Dump all into boosting birthrate, confirm immediately work. $6B divide by 60K babies, each baby gets how much funding? $100K!!! Use that for their free infant care, child care, free education until Poly also no problem.

 

Yes, free education. Something I always advocate. Less scam and more manageable than free health care.

 

Especially up to Poly or JC.

[Flykite]

yup, in the old days, a working parents with low pay still manage to raise few kids even though money is always tight. The few kids all stay inside one rooms. The text book will pass from the elder brother to the younger brother, same as school uniform. Eating out at restaurant always remain a luxury things to think of and it happens few times during specially occassion.

 

Today, dining out is a very common thing, excuses are not enough time to cook, leceh, etc etc.

 

Babies now use pampers, older days use a piece of cloth, wash and use, use and wash.......there are so many expensive toys, but do we really need to buy those toys which the the babies still dont know the meaning of the toys yet.....I guess the kiasu mentality plays a big part here, u see other people buy, we will buy also.....

 

Try to cut down all this expenses, then, you will see some lights.......

 

Also, govt say i cannot buy 2-room, 3room. if i could, i'd gladly cram everyone in one small dwelling. the textbooks, oh! how i love to pass them down, but the cirriculum change so fast! tamade, text book also change, new syallbus new textbook, can i dont buy new ones? eating out at macdonalds used to be a luxury, but now the mcvalue lunch at $4.50 is cheaper than the food court, and got drink somemore. i eat at foodcourt, $3.50 for one char kway teow, +$1.30 coffee cost more liao. somemore the portion in food court so small, i hungry how to work? and for diapers... please touch your heart and and ask yourself, will you choose to save $30 and wash all that sh!t 4 times a day and wait for them to dry, and also have to change the cloth each time wee wee otherwise will infection. Ask the ladies who will save on kotex and use the old cloth. Also washing the cloths need to use water (another cost) and time (which is something alot of working couples don't have). the people who suggest not using diapers are usually also the people who are not washing the sh!t off them.

 

sometimes, please think, its not the same as old times. old times police wear shorts ok.

[Greatbirdlegend]

sometimes, please think, its not the same as old times. old times police wear shorts ok.

 

Like ah gong ah ma lor.

When got nothing to say just bring out the old times. [laugh]

[Tigerwoods]

From the Govt's perspective,

1. Spend $$ on campaign ----> GDP growth ($$ to advertising, 60000 mothers still remain in workforce plus import more FT)

2. Spend $$ on mothers like what you suggest ---> no GDP growth (no $$ to advertising plus 60000 mothers taken off the work force)

 

Scholars will choose 1 or 2?

SCholar will choose 1. But its about time they wake up their idea...

They want everything, Up GDP$$ + retain working mothers + TFR >2.

This is just not possible. Its probably because of the above, that ALL plans FAILED to increase babies, I strongly believe.

Something has to give.

 

I don't believe all 60k mothers will stop working and take handouts from Garment.

There will always be some who choose to continue working after maternity.

 

I must admit that :

For those earning < $1500/mth sure Jiak Kau Kau one.

Therefore it should be limited to Max 3 yrs + continuous Skills training for such women to equip them with relevant experience.

 

[Enye]

They will wake up for a while before we put the X...after that, they will go back to zzz again.

[Wt_know]

1st kid $30k cash .... chop chop ... can use for property too in case need to upgrade bigger house

2nd kid $15k cash ... chop chop no question ask

3rd kid = $0 ... gao liao ... that's your problem

if governmnt scare take $30k then go find china mei-mei, can setup drawn down like $1k every month?

don't give me s--t that money goes into CPF hor ... we need cash $$$ to survive !!!

 

those got problem, IVF should be given more subsidy like up to 70% subsided for 1st and 2nd try because now many choose to have baby in mid-to-late 30 (not quite fertile yo)

 

all current baby policies and incentives continue

since government like to use $$$ to solve problem, why not give instead of suck to solve problem !

like this 'average' singaporen will at least aim to maintain 1 kid ?

good idea? ok ok i know having a child is a very personal choice

but i'm sure $$$ is in everyone consideration (quite a big concern) while thinking to have kid, right ?

 

having said that, i guess scholar will think why so leceh just import ready made la ..... can choose some more ....

Edited January 20, 2011 by Wt_know

[Jman888]

heard a news last night that in england now allow husband and wife to split the 9-months maternity leave, husband can claim up to 6-months (why not if he makes less than the wife!)

[Sgnick]

Our dear leaders like to increase price to solve all problem, so I assume this time round, they will implement

*drum rolls*

 

(A)

COE bidding for condoms and other contraceptives!!!

 

Yes, make condoms (with COE) $70K a pack, see who still wanna buy.

 

COE also for those medicines that help people with premature ejaculation, make them cannot control and JUAH fast fast without a CD.

 

(B)

Then implement ABORTION TAX, yes, make abortion as "affordable" as buying a HDB, but no loans allowed.

 

©

Then revise the income tax, in fact, reverse the income tax policy from carrot to become stick,

0 child = tax X 150%, 1 child = tax X 140%, 2 child = tax X 130% and so on.