Rafa could be jobless soon

[Acemundo]

while i can understand your reasons, i dont agree everton is an appropriate comparison against pool when the funds their respective manager spent are quite far apart.

 

that's also the basis why i feel using chelsea to compare against rafa led pool is inappropriate because the reason rafa was sacked was not because he fail to match chelsea's success in landing the BPL crown.

 

if he was sacked for failing to to land the top 4 with that amount of budget at this disposal, only arsene wenger is an apple to apple comparison. the only point i am trying to bring across is that when we make comparisons we have to make apple to apple comparison.

 

as for RH, i did not bring him into the comparison against RB at all. i only think a lot of pool fans were too quick to lay the blame on him when the bulk of the problems were built up before he joined pool. this is my opinion but i rather not digress into defending him because this thread is about RB.

 

i know RB is a sentimental favorite with lots of pool fans. But i rather discard sentimentalism for tangible results for the good of liverpool.

[Acemundo]

i am not trying to say wenger is a better manager. but wenger is better at meeting his KPI with the same amount of resources at disposal. in the corporate world, the measurement is always based on input (resources) vs output (KPI).

 

for any clubs, the financial ramifications of finishing fourth are so huge that anytime they would have opted to for manager to consistently land them the 4th place instead of lifting trophies occasionally.

[Osprey23]

We can always agree to disagree, no issue here.

 

My stand on Roy is clear. He simply has to go. For all the reasons why Rafa has to go, we find them with Roy and probably more severe. It is not the result majority of the fans are unhappy with, it is the way we play! No idea, no creativity, no desire, no fight, no style, no class. Leave it as it is here, as you have said, this thread is about Rafa. You are welcome to start a thread to defend him. I am eager to see how you are going todo that.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Osprey23

[Acemundo]

haha i am not a RH supporter also. so i won't start a thread to defend him. whatever comments i made about RH thus far is more coming saying a word of fairness from the angle of assessing the results vs the gargantuan task at hand. of course if pool fans dislike his style of play, i won't even want to comment on that.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Acemundo

[Osprey23]

I doubt so bro. Probably to the U S Of A since new US owner and not Sillypore owner.

 

Apparently, coming to Asia is the plan.

 

Werner also revealed that he expects to finalise a new board of directors by the end of the calendar year as well as plans for a pre-season tour of Asia next summer.

[Joseph22]

huh?? flame war over so fast huh?? Kingcopa, page me in for what?? :angry:

Edited November 17, 2010 by Joseph22

[Osprey23]

haha i am not a RH supporter also. so i won't start a thread to defend him. whatever comments i made about RH thus far is more coming saying a word of fairness from the angle of assessing the results vs the gargantuan task at hand. of course if pool fans dislike his style of play, i won't even want to comment on that.

 

Not one Liverpool fan will disagree on how difficult the task is to bring us back to the top. We need everyone to pull together towards the same direction. Everyone connected to the club has his role to play. Look ay Roy's position compared to Rafa's. He now has good owner who has a long term plan for the club, Rafa had owners who only had plans for themselves. Roy has a Director of Football to help with scouting and signing recommendation, Rafa had to do it on his own. Roy inherited a decent squad which based on the fact that Rafa finishing 7th is not enough, should at least a top 6 team.

 

However, what had he done? Loan out Aquilani who was our top assist player for 2nd half of last season, loan out Insua who was the top assist left back from Aug - Feb last season. Spent 10m to buy Poulsen and Konchesky who are in no way better than the players loaned out and worse part of all, they are too old to fetch any money back on resale - 10m into the drain.

 

Next, he wants defenders to just kicks the ball upfront. Defenders should just defend and support at set pieces. Carra is thrilled, but Agger and Johnson planning next career moves.

 

Midfielders sit deep. Gerrard - Torres combo taken apart. Meireles, his most promising and expansive still yet to find his best position in the team. My question, what has Roy in mind when he signed him.

 

Torres, played as a target man best suited for Zamora or Heskey. Often chasing long balls pumped from defenders. Even when he has the ball, he will have his back towards goal and 2 defenders to deal with. By the time the support came, possession conceded. Roy has put a racing horse to pull the cart, as one Liverpool fan aptly described Torres' situation.

 

The state we are in now, Roy has to take the biggest chunk of the blame.

 

Can't help it. Rant over. Last post on this.

[Kopites]

while i can understand your reasons, i dont agree everton is an appropriate comparison against pool when the funds their respective manager spent are quite far apart.

 

that's also the basis why i feel using chelsea to compare against rafa led pool is inappropriate because the reason rafa was sacked was not because he fail to match chelsea's success in landing the BPL crown.

 

if he was sacked for failing to to land the top 4 with that amount of budget at this disposal, only arsene wenger is an apple to apple comparison. the only point i am trying to bring across is that when we make comparisons we have to make apple to apple comparison.

 

as for RH, i did not bring him into the comparison against RB at all. i only think a lot of pool fans were too quick to lay the blame on him when the bulk of the problems were built up before he joined pool. this is my opinion but i rather not digress into defending him because this thread is about RB.

 

i know RB is a sentimental favorite with lots of pool fans. But i rather discard sentimentalism for tangible results for the good of liverpool.

 

 

I used to love rafa during his era but let all of us move on. Hope our club can find another suitable canditate to lead us back to our glory days (Not RH please!).

 

Credit due we must give it to him. Rafa brought us back to the european stage and become a team fear by many. Ask milan, chelksi, barca, RM etc. Isn't that consider tangible result? And also not forgetting the european cup, FA cup, Carling cup. Many of those european teams would rather face Asernal than liverpool? Rafa has set us up as a hard to beat team in european stage. If u know what i meant. If u are refering to actual trophies won than rafa definitely beat AW hand down in this aspect during his short span. How long has Aserne Wenger been at the club? Does arsene need to deal with the board? Is there a so call "football director" overlooking arsene ? Try putting a football director at arsenal and see whether arsene will or will not depart from ass. Does we have a big capacity stadium to generate constant flow of income? Apple to apple comparison???

 

Your stand that the problem facing RH were built up before he joined pool. I agree to a certain extent the problem in the set up of pool organisation. Owners, board of directors, lack of fund etc. Isn't these problems facing rafa as well during his reign? RH inherit rafa squad, minus macherano. I do also agree certain areas in the team set up are weak and need replacement. But not to the EXTENT of us in relegation zone or becoming another mid table team (fulham). When RH took up the job what does he expect from pool ? Do another "JM" go out and buy star players? Motivate and push the current crop of players to another level?

 

Only twice during rafa era we were out of the top four, last year and the year where everton was above us. Anyhow we did still qualified to play in the following year european champion league as title holder. So the flow of income stream for that season still exist. At the moment very apparently on the field players are not responsing well to RH tactic, management style ? I have seem rafa on many occasion stand up for the players or results when critised by the media or opp managers. Torres incident come to mind. Did RH stand behind torres when he was been called a cheat by Red Nose? I am sure rafa won't allow that to happen on any of our players. This is the management style absent from RH.

[Lala81]

We can always agree to disagree, no issue here.

 

My stand on Roy is clear. He simply has to go. For all the reasons why Rafa has to go, we find them with Roy and probably more severe. It is not the result majority of the fans are unhappy with, it is the way we play! No idea, no creativity, no desire, no fight, no style, no class. Leave it as it is here, as you have said, this thread is about Rafa. You are welcome to start a thread to defend him. I am eager to see how you are going todo that.

 

RH is definitely not a long term solution as the current situation shows.

 

However, do u want to sack him now vs waiting for end of the season?

Generally sacking managers midway thru the season has had bad outcome abt 80% of the time.

 

R we going to truly attract a top class manager at this point in the season?

 

Dalglish hasn't managed any top flight team for 12-13 years. His managerial debacle at Newcastle is hardly inspiring (it was so bad that it makes RH looks good)

Sammy lee is obviously not up to the job of manager as well.

 

Is it the lesser of 2 evils to keep RH ?

 

[Lala81]

I used to love rafa during his era but let all of us move on. Hope our club can find another suitable canditate to lead us back to our glory days (Not RH please!).

 

Credit due we must give it to him. Rafa brought us back to the european stage and become a team fear by many. Ask milan, chelksi, barca, RM etc. Isn't that consider tangible result? And also not forgetting the european cup, FA cup, Carling cup. Many of those european teams would rather face Asernal than liverpool? Rafa has set us up as a hard to beat team in european stage. If u know what i meant. If u are refering to actual trophies won than rafa definitely beat AW hand down in this aspect during his short span. How long has Aserne Wenger been at the club? Does arsene need to deal with the board? Is there a so call "football director" overlooking arsene ? Try putting a football director at arsenal and see whether arsene will or will not depart from ass. Does we have a big capacity stadium to generate constant flow of income? Apple to apple comparison???

 

Your stand that the problem facing RH were built up before he joined pool. I agree to a certain extent the problem in the set up of pool organisation. Owners, board of directors, lack of fund etc. Isn't these problems facing rafa as well during his reign? RH inherit rafa squad, minus macherano. I do also agree certain areas in the team set up are weak and need replacement. But not to the EXTENT of us in relegation zone or becoming another mid table team (fulham). When RH took up the job what does he expect from pool ? Do another "JM" go out and buy star players? Motivate and push the current crop of players to another level?

 

Only twice during rafa era we were out of the top four, last year and the year where everton was above us. Anyhow we did still qualified to play in the following year european champion league as title holder. So the flow of income stream for that season still exist. At the moment very apparently on the field players are not responsing well to RH tactic, management style ? I have seem rafa on many occasion stand up for the players or results when critised by the media or opp managers. Torres incident come to mind. Did RH stand behind torres when he was been called a cheat by Red Nose? I am sure rafa won't allow that to happen on any of our players. This is the management style absent from RH.

 

To be fair to RH, i think he has said many times that Torres is playing well even though when he wasn't.

His style is to say his team is playing well even when they were utter crap.

 

His buys have been terrible that's for sure.

 

[Osprey23]

RH is definitely not a long term solution as the current situation shows.

 

However, do u want to sack him now vs waiting for end of the season?

Generally sacking managers midway thru the season has had bad outcome abt 80% of the time.

 

R we going to truly attract a top class manager at this point in the season?

 

Dalglish hasn't managed any top flight team for 12-13 years. His managerial debacle at Newcastle is hardly inspiring (it was so bad that it makes RH looks good)

Sammy lee is obviously not up to the job of manager as well.

 

Is it the lesser of 2 evils to keep RH ?

 

I agree with you that there is a risk removing the manager midway through a season. I also agree with you no top class manager will come and Dalglish likely to be installed in the interim. That too, is a risk.

 

However, any risk is worth take to prevent Roy taking the club apart.

[Lala81]

I agree with you that there is a risk removing the manager midway through a season. I also agree with you no top class manager will come and Dalglish likely to be installed in the interim. That too, is a risk.

 

However, any risk is worth take to prevent Roy taking the club apart.

 

Dalglish destroyed newcastle also lol

The players he bought ... his own son!

 

The difficulty is finding a manager who's willing to stand in until end of the season n yet not expect to stay on.

Honestly i tink Dalglish will be bad too. He's not had a proper job for 12 years!

 

[Joseph22]

To be fair to RH, i think he has said many times that Torres is playing well even though when he wasn't.

His style is to say his team is playing well even when they were utter crap.

 

His buys have been terrible that's for sure.

 

Most of the team i read about RH saying about Torres is that he is not up to par and not on form when the problem is his own tactics.

similar to his comment on GJ a Wing back being told to pay as a full back but expect him to have a similar form when he is playing wing back for england.

this 2 comment make it hard for us to be fair to him when he is not being fair to the other player who are forced to play in a different role as what they are suppose to play.

Other stuff like not playing Agger, who likely to be our best CB because he only like to play long ball is another.

[Acemundo]

by your way of reasoning, there will never be apple to apple comparison in any commercial setups. how can you compare the intangibles like way of administration etc. every administration has its style if you want to compare along this line there will never be an apple to apple comparison.

 

as far as i know, in commercial world, bosses always wants to benchmark against someone comparable in the industry and they usually use tangible factors to determine comparable. tangible factors are measurable factors like profit, cost, number of headcount etc.

 

that i mention aw led arsenal is comparable stands up to this commercial practice. because standings in the league and budget spent are tangible and measurable factors. that the example you pointed about difference in set up, style of running etc is not something common in the commercial world. like it or not, football clubs are still commercial entities. if not, there wont be things like bank loans, budgets, going into administration etc

 

next time your boss tells you to benchmark to a company similar to yours, try telling him it is different because hte management style is different. you see what type of response he will give you. in any case bosses don't like you to cite such intangible factors as forcing the benchmarking to be non comparable bcos such intangible factors like management style are not information commonly available in the market. using it would allow it to escalate to a situation where it is subjective when A says is comparable but B says it is not comparable due to their own non-official channel of information and interpretatoin.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Acemundo

[Joseph22]

Dalglish destroyed newcastle also lol

The players he bought ... his own son!

 

The difficulty is finding a manager who's willing to stand in until end of the season n yet not expect to stay on.

Honestly i tink Dalglish will be bad too. He's not had a proper job for 12 years!

 

you are quick to jump the gun on Dalglish but dont forget in the last 15 year, he is the only manager that is able to win a league title outside of the top 3 teams in England (ManU, Arsernal and Chelsea) with Blackburn. his tenant in Newcastle arent that bad either. 2nd place finishing on the first season. 2nd season 13th largely due to absense of Alan Shearer( during those time, most team are still relying on 1 or 2 start player unlike now)

By the way speaking of newcastle, wiki wrote that Keegan scrapped Newcastle reserve squad and Kenny have to rebuild it. is it for real??

[Joseph22]

by your way of reasoning, there will never be apple to apple comparison in any commercial setups. how can you compare the intangibles like way of administration etc. every administration has its style if you want to compare along this line there will never be an apple to apple comparison.

 

as far as i know, in commercial world, bosses always wants to benchmark against someone comparable in the industry and they usually use tangible factors to determine comparable. tangible factors are measurable factors like profit, cost, number of headcount etc.

 

that i mention aw led arsenal is comparable stands up to this commercial practice. because standings in the league and budget spent are tangible and measurable factors. that the example you pointed about difference in set up, style of running etc is not something common in the commercial world. like it or not, football clubs are still commercial entities. if not, there wont be things like bank loans, budgets, going into administration etc

 

TBF to him, he had never have the intention of comparing Apple to apple while you are the one who brought it out right?? cannot remember plus i am a bit lazy to glance throught the earlier pages.

[Acemundo]

i said wenger led arsenal is the closest apple to apple comparison because osprey started comparing chelsea and man city.

 

i said chelsea and man city are not comparable bcos chelsea was a BPL winner on few occasion and unless Rafa was sacked for not winning the BPL then chelsea is a apple to apple comparison. i said mancini deserves to be sacked anyway so he is also out of the picture.

 

then i said wenger led asrsenal is the closest apple to apple comparison given the budget they have spent and the KPI of finishing 4th they are given. he refuted this example and say it is not apple to apple comparison because wenger never had interference from their management and another point about spoorting director. do you think he is not refuting my example of wenger led arsenal is the closest apple to apple comparison with this illustratoin?

[Osprey23]

Dalglish destroyed newcastle also lol

The players he bought ... his own son!

 

The difficulty is finding a manager who's willing to stand in until end of the season n yet not expect to stay on.

Honestly i tink Dalglish will be bad too. He's not had a proper job for 12 years!

 

Did Dalglish brought Newcastle down? He didn't.

Did Roy brought Blackburn down? He did.