Converting 10% of PRs to citizens "not a target"

[Ben5266]

I am a PR and the problem is two fold . First singapore does not allow dual citizenship. This is a big problem because once you give up citizenship in other countries its very hard to get it back. Secondly for your info - Singapore is the only country in the world whereby PR ship is subject to renewal and which in turn is contingent upon gainful employment. Not just employment but gainful employment

Many countries in this region do not allow dual citizenship. I am one supporting this, although I do admit given the choice, i would also want to have a 2nd citizenship.

On the renewal part, technically, it is renewal of the re-entry permit as discussed before. Well, I should say, Singapore has put across this rule very clearly when one applies for the PRs. Obviously, Singapore welcome PR when they see one as an asset. If one is a liability, they will reject.

 

How much better you want Singapore to treat the PR when they actually hint to their citizen to retire in JB?

[Mightymito]

i was unemployed in 2003 during the SARS outbreak then again in 2005-2006. Fortunately it was not during the reentry permit renewal period . I remember they asked to see CPF contribution.

 

You are right PR is permanent the issue is reentry permit. Well dont leave the country then

[Ben5266]

Im a PR , I got a scholarship from the SG garmen to study A levels here then I got an interest free 100% loan from the SG garmen for a degree. But the thing is this , if things go bad I can always go home and plant some vegetables and keep a few chickens and pig . Cant do that in a HDB flat

Oh, you are the Asean scholar... Elite!

[Darryn]

Oh, you are the Asean scholar... Elite!

 

He orso got good taste in cars....

[Ben5266]

Is the PR (or renewal of REP, as you put it) dependent on employment always? I know a lot of foreigners gain PR (and REP, possibly) through marriage. So these are not affected by employment?

Actually, not quite sure how they evaluate.

They maybe looking at at least 183 days reside in Singapore per year then you are eligible for the renewal.

But then, they also want you to produce employment record and letter.

Not sure how those self employed managed to renewal their REP. Maybe, just need to show them the ACRA registration, and the annual income tax filing.

[Tigerwoods]

Since when and based on what? NZ is better to PRs than SG is.....

Yeah PRs in SG kena called "Trash" by some c2pid fella.

NZ just call you Chink... [laugh]

[Blackyv]

ok, damage control .... dont worry..no such thing at "force"....

 

http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/09/09/go...up-citizenship/

 

 

[Bystander50]

Ok, I've not been specific in my earlier post. First, I've worked with a lot of these "FT"s. I'm not saying FTs from all nationalities are that bad, I would say working with Burmese, M'sians and Fillipinos are a better experience than those which form a majority of the FT population here.

 

I've previously worked for a MNC for 12 years where 6 (or 7) out of 10 staffs there are FTs holding PRs. If these FTs are that talented, they would have brought the company to greater new new leaps. But no, they didn't, the company company continued making losses every quarter and finally being sold off. A new department could be created for this incoming FT department head and bringing in the FT gang. And the section manager for this new department does nothing other than creating statistical charts which a production operator can do. In no time, 3/4 of the section managers are replaced with FTs. After the company is sold off, this whole gang of FTs went off to join competitors knowing that their positions are no longer secured. The question asked is, how much have they contributed? The word "talent" is overused to make us locals feel that we need these "smart" people around. However, in many situations, we locals are the ones leading and correcting the mistakes made by these FTs.

 

During my attachment in the 90s, the initial batches of FTs I worked with are talented. They know what they are doing and possessed the right attitude. It's a big difference comparing the then and now FTs. With the floodgates opened for so half a million in, the quality and standards of these people definitely dropped.

 

Most of these FTs are given scholarships to study here and they get their PRs after getting their degrees. They are mainly fresh graduates who don't possess the industrial skills or knowledge, mainly paper warrior only. Some openly declared that they are using SG as a stepping stone to launch their careers into the US or back to the motherland. These FTs will bring their experience, skills and knowledge learned here back home. You think these PRC FTs are dumb? Their economy is so huge and it is bound to overtake the US within a decade or 2. How many would still want to stay here then?

 

I would call these people Foreign Talents if people like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates are offered PRs and working right here.

 

And no, my current job is FT free and I don't see the kind of problems I encountered in my previous company.

 

[Piyopico]

Ok, I've not been specific in my earlier post. First, I've worked with a lot of these "FT"s. I'm not saying FTs from all nationalities are that bad, I would say working with Burmese, M'sians and Fillipinos are a better experience than those which form a majority of the FT population here.

 

I've previously worked for a MNC for 12 years where 6 (or 7) out of 10 staffs there are FTs holding PRs. If these FTs are that talented, they would have brought the company to greater new new leaps. But no, they didn't, the company company continued making losses every quarter and finally being sold off. A new department could be created for this incoming FT department head and bringing in the FT gang. And the section manager for this new department does nothing other than creating statistical charts which a production operator can do. In no time, 3/4 of the section managers are replaced with FTs. After the company is sold off, this whole gang of FTs went off to join competitors knowing that their positions are no longer secured. The question asked is, how much have they contributed? The word "talent" is overused to make us locals feel that we need these "smart" people around. However, in many situations, we locals are the ones leading and correcting the mistakes made by these FTs.

 

During my attachment in the 90s, the initial batches of FTs I worked with are talented. They know what they are doing and possessed the right attitude. It's a big difference comparing the then and now FTs. With the floodgates opened for so half a million in, the quality and standards of these people definitely dropped.

 

Most of these FTs are given scholarships to study here and they get their PRs after getting their degrees. They are mainly fresh graduates who don't possess the industrial skills or knowledge, mainly paper warrior only. Some openly declared that they are using SG as a stepping stone to launch their careers into the US or back to the motherland. These FTs will bring their experience, skills and knowledge learned here back home. You think these PRC FTs are dumb? Their economy is so huge and it is bound to overtake the US within a decade or 2. How many would still want to stay here then?

 

I would call these people Foreign Talents if people like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates are offered PRs and working right here.

 

And no, my current job is FT free and I don't see the kind of problems I encountered in my previous company.

 

You know what? The govt dun care. This year's quota is another 100,000 FT.

 

The real reason these people are brought in is to ensure we are wage competitive. Translated it means to depress the average wageroll so that overall costs is controlled. Aterall we are far from being the most productive workforce in the world. This view is widely accepted. Do you dare shout for 10% increment when your boss can hire a FT at 70% of your cost? The govt knows this. The employer knows this. As a business owner I can tell you the FTs are my weapon against high attrition and low productivity. Given the standard of FTs nowadays I can say most are not better than locals but you do have to realise that sometimes to an employer it is perfectly fine to just find an average worker esp if they cost much less than a better local worker.

 

Then again there are employers who have a heart. Find one and work for them, they deserve your loyalty and support. Afterall they could have gotten FTs at lower costs...........................

 

A small part in the wider scheme.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Piyopico

[Sons_of_singapore]

When I leaved my first job in 97, my last drawn pay is $1900 & my replacement who is a FT is only paid $800!

 

8 yrs later...

 

When I leaved my last job in 2005, my last drawn pay is $3000 & my co. employed 1 fresh poly grad & another FT who is only paid $1500 each.

 

After that, I told myself there is no job security in this world so I decided to work for my own business.

[Piyopico]

When I leaved my first job in 97, my last drawn pay is $1900 & my replacement who is a FT is only paid $800!

 

8 yrs later...

 

When I leaved my last job in 2005, my last drawn pay is $3000 & my co. employed 1 fresh poly grad & another FT who is only paid $1500 each.

 

After that, I told myself there is no job security in this world so I decided to work for my own business.

 

 

Look. The employed are the ones making noise cos increase in costs have overtaken wage increment by far over the last 5 years.

 

But do you know the secret why employers support the govt? Very simple. Govt help to maintain costs thru their strategies. In the wider scheme of things, if you are employed, this problem will follow you for the rest of your life as Singapore will leave no stone unturned to maintain their world competitiveness. They just announced we are 3rd most competive in the world after the Swiss and Sweden. Same position as last year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tigerwoods]

You know what? The govt dun care. This year's quota is another 100,000 FT.

 

The real reason these people are brought in is to ensure we are wage competitive. Translated it means to depress the average wageroll so that overall costs is controlled. Aterall we are far from being the most productive workforce in the world. This view is widely accepted. Do you dare shout for 10% increment when your boss can hire a FT at 70% of your cost? The govt knows this. The employer knows this. As a business owner I can tell you the FTs are my weapon against high attrition and low productivity. Given the standard of FTs nowadays I can say most are not better than locals but you do have to realise that sometimes to an employer it is perfectly fine to just find an average worker esp if they cost much less than a better local worker.

 

Then again there are employers who have a heart. Find one and work for them, they deserve your loyalty and support. Afterall they could have gotten FTs at lower costs...........................

 

A small part in the wider scheme.

I agree with those in RED. If not how can we be Cheaper, Better, Faster ?

Cheaper - suppress wages due to FTs

Better - since we are efficient already, with suppress wages = Better to our employers

Faster - with everyone doing Multitasking, we get work done since we spend 18 hrs/day.

 

[Piyopico]

I agree with those in RED. If not how can we be Cheaper, Better, Faster ?

Cheaper - suppress wages due to FTs

Better - since we are efficient already, with suppress wages = Better to our employers

Faster - with everyone doing Multitasking, we get work done since we spend 18 hrs/day.

 

 

Hmmm. I dun aim to be cheap fast and better. Others can and will always be cheaper. When you age you can only go so fast. Better is relative .........

[Blackyv]

Hmmm. I dun aim to be cheap fast and better. Others can and will always be cheaper. When you age you can only go so fast. Better is relative .........

 

 

these few words are crap combinations.... it's never logical to have cheaper, better and faster... only can have either 2 combination and the third would be trade-off ....... if they think it is possible, then walk the talk..... ask those mp/minister to reduce their paycheck, work out and implement any policy faster than it should be and better ofcause...

 

but hey, they said they need to pay high $$$$ to retain and attracts talent but high $$$ is NOT and never CHEAPER!! they dont even know what crap they are talking in recent years.......

[Acemundo]

i think the policymakers have taken a fallacious stand in this case if what you mentioned is true.

 

while is true foreign talents on employment pass are cheaper than singaporeans when they first arrive on the shores of singapore, their pay parity with local singaporean is mostly restored on their 2nd to 4th year of employment. foreigners have also human traits to compare. when they know they can do the same job, why would they accept taking a lower pay than a singaporean for the same job. for those on work permit, perhaps foreigners are still cheaper, but not really those on employment passes.

 

i have witnessed it personally in my previous company. this FT also knows how to ask for pay raises when it is not during salary review period by throwing in the resignation letter and expecting to get a counter offer with a higher pay.

 

introducing foreigners into the job market, does depress pay for singaporeans though. because as supply increases, the transacted price is definitely going to fall ceterus paribus.

[Piyopico]

i think the policymakers have taken a fallacious stand in this case if what you mentioned is true.

 

while is true foreign talents on employment pass are cheaper than singaporeans when they first arrive on the shores of singapore, their pay parity with local singaporean is mostly restored on their 2nd to 4th year of employment. foreigners have also human traits to compare. when they know they can do the same job, why would they accept taking a lower pay than a singaporean for the same job. for those on work permit, perhaps foreigners are still cheaper, but not really those on employment passes.

 

i have witnessed it personally in my previous company. this FT also knows how to ask for pay raises when it is not during salary review period by throwing in the resignation letter and expecting to get a counter offer with a higher pay.

 

introducing foreigners into the job market, does depress pay for singaporeans though. because as supply increases, the transacted price is definitely going to fall ceterus paribus.

 

I understand a professor just concluded via a study that the influx of FTs depress the wages of locals. Cant remember which research instituition ...................

 

 

[Kiadaw]

I understand a professor just concluded via a study that the influx of FTs depress the wages of locals. Cant remember which research instituition ...................

 

 

Wow, hard to believe, who would have though. Thats why he is professor.

 

I am being sarcastic by the way. I mean, isn't it obvious, last time FT are "Angmoh" or some experts taking higher position. Now FTs are Malaysians, Filipinos, Indonesians, China nationals etc taking low/mid range jobs.

 

Have you guys check out how good & capable the Filipinos "swat" team is in the recent news. Not saying the FTs coming from their are the same level, but it certain gives us a lot of confidence in their talents.

[Ghostami]

Some industries I am puzzled by where the amount of FT when they can employ locals. Cause pay is quite ok but I see lots of Indians, Myanmar people in it. And these are industries that our government has keep putting focus on as they are part of our bread and butter.