Help - Neigbhour complained of damage to his wall tiles....

[Blackyv]

does your soon to be neighbor have dog or cat? if yes, than can jolly well claim that due to his pets fur causes your allergy or asthma relapse.. go see specialist and pass him the bill ok or not?.......

[Latka]

TS, better for u to tell him directly u not responsible for his damage. Yr ID oready state very clearly not possible. Let him hire a lawyer to claim fm you if he can. Not sure which cheap charlie lawyer gonna take dis up anyway. The onus is on him to prove that you directly caused his damages.

Actually fm start you shudn't have humored him though.

[Vooth]

I see another case of car being vandalised soon

[Bullterrier]

Sounds like your neighbour will repair his tiles and then send you his bill.

 

You are well within your rights to ignore it cos he hasn't prove to date that the tiles are indeed damaged due to renovation work being done to your unit. On top of engaging the services of a lawyer to issue you a letter of demand for payment, he has to provide reports from surveyors and engineers whom will have to professionally state that the damages caused to his unit are caused by you. Not quite likely since other units in between the two of you are intact and sound. So any lawyer worth his salt would know this is a long shot and with the economy moving ahead and most of them busy with property conveyancing, I am not sure he can even get a lawyer to act for him other than issue that initial letter of demand.

 

Furthermore, should you choose not to respond to his lawyer's letter, his following recourse would be to file his claims in a court of law. Most cases are settled at this point i.e. the claimant does not go further cos the real costs of litigation (upwards of $50K for claimant legal fees alone) will kick in should the case goes into hearing or the party being sued choose to settle out of court. In Singapore's legal system, even if the claimant is able to prove his claims with supporting evidences, there is no guarantee of winning and being awarded all costs involved in bringing the case to trial.

 

So at best your neighbour is a barking dog trying to scare you into giving into his demands. If you give in to his demands this time what make you think he will not come back next round with something equally or even more ridiculous to claim? Due to the circumstances surrounding his claims, he has actually very little legal recourse other than to talk to you very nicely hoping that in the spirit of neighbourliness, you will be so kind as to help him with his claims and by that I mean maybe pay 50% of the amount.

 

Your best course of action is to tell him firmly and nicely that while you are the owner, you are a lay person and not familiar with all these matters and that he should speak to your representatives - your ID and contractors or that he can send you legal letters and you will just have your lawyers respond accordingly. If he is not willing to do so then its probably cos he knows he will get nowhere with these professionals cos at best what he has got is a very weak or poor case against you at best. So dont let him stress or worry you out cos that is his best and only weapon; be nice and firm but do not entertain or encourage any further discussions with him.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Bullterrier

[Bullterrier]

May I offer a different perspective to better clear the picture for TS?

 

Supposing after the day you move house, your neighbour knock on you door and said that his car was damage in a hit and run and that he wants you to pay cos he thinks its caused by the moving lorry that must have crashed into his parked car? Would you entertain his claims? Would you not ask him if he was present or was there any witness that saw your moving lorry banging into his precious car? Of course a car or something crashed into his car to cause the damage but who is to say or prove that it was your fault directly or otherwise?

 

Many on the thread offered that TS neighbour workmanship and material quality could be at fault and that may all be true. Engineers will tell you that for tiles or walls to be cracked even if they are directly next to TS house, there will be other telltale signs or symptoms that will go along and support the case.

[Fooblack]

Sounds like your neighbour will repair his tiles and then send you his bill.

 

You are well within your rights to ignore it cos he hasn't prove to date that the tiles are indeed damaged due to renovation work being done to your unit. On top of engaging the services of a lawyer to issue you a letter of demand for payment, he has to provide reports from surveyors and engineers whom will have to professionally state that the damages caused to his unit are caused by you. Not quite likely since other units in between the two of you are intact and sound. So any lawyer worth his salt would know this is a long shot and with the economy moving ahead and most of them busy with property conveyancing, I am not sure he can even get a lawyer to act for him other than issue that initial letter of demand.

 

Furthermore, should you choose not to respond to his lawyer's letter, his following recourse would be to file his claims in a court of law. Most cases are settled at this point i.e. the claimant does not go further cos the real costs of litigation (upwards of $50K for claimant legal fees alone) will kick in should the case goes into hearing or the party being sued choose to settle out of court. In Singapore's legal system, even if the claimant is able to prove his claims with supporting evidences, there is no guarantee of winning and being awarded all costs involved in bringing the case to trial.

 

So at best your neighbour is a barking dog trying to scare you into giving into his demands. If you give in to his demands this time what make you think he will not come back next round with something equally or even more ridiculous to claim? Due to the circumstances surrounding his claims, he has actually very little legal recourse other than to talk to you very nicely hoping that in the spirit of neighbourliness, you will be so kind as to help him with his claims and by that I mean maybe pay 50% of the amount.

 

Your best course of action is to tell him firmly and nicely that while you are the owner, you are a lay person and not familiar with all these matters and that he should speak to your representatives - your ID and contractors or that he can send you legal letters and you will just have your lawyers respond accordingly. If he is not willing to do so then its probably cos he knows he will get nowhere with these professionals cos at best what he has got is a very weak or poor case against you at best. So dont let him stress or worry you out cos that is his best and only weapon; be nice and firm but do not entertain or encourage any further discussions with him.

 

Thanks for the detailed advice... sounds like you are quite acquainted with the legal stuffs...

 

that's probably wat I am afraid of.. he is in this line so he probably can build a case using his own line of PE and surveyors... my contractor say actually cost little to repair for him.. but he seems those unreasonable type who knows have more things which he will try to fussy with...

 

my contractor have been ignoring him till now.. he is coming after me only... so, looks like a standstill soon... he told me that he will proceed to repair at his end and "proceed" with me.. i expect to get his bill and some sort of PE cert/ surveyor's report soon ...

 

the legal costs are high so it is the last thing I wish to happen... both side lose lose if there is no conclusion or worst, I am held liable for this damage and his legal costs... the damage so little and legal fees will be unapproportionately high.... really silly... he may really be so sicko to proceed... that's what I am concerned with...

 

 

 

[Robo]

Thanks for the detailed advice... sounds like you are quite acquainted with the legal stuffs...

 

that's probably wat I am afraid of.. he is in this line so he probably can build a case using his own line of PE and surveyors... my contractor say actually cost little to repair for him.. but he seems those unreasonable type who knows have more things which he will try to fussy with...

 

my contractor have been ignoring him till now.. he is coming after me only... so, looks like a standstill soon... he told me that he will proceed to repair at his end and "proceed" with me.. i expect to get his bill and some sort of PE cert/ surveyor's report soon ...

 

the legal costs are high so it is the last thing I wish to happen... both side lose lose if there is no conclusion or worst, I am held liable for this damage and his legal costs... the damage so little and legal fees will be unapproportionately high.... really silly... he may really be so sicko to proceed... that's what I am concerned with...

 

qn is how can he actually proved that its ur renovation that is causing the dmg to his tiles with a unbias 3rd party. my take is ignore him. he wanna sue he can try... a gd litigator will tear him apart.

 

put the qn back to him. if its u claiming from him. will he pay? bull crap a------e. please dun give in to such pricks.

[Beehive3783]

Thanks for the detailed advice... sounds like you are quite acquainted with the legal stuffs...

 

that's probably wat I am afraid of.. he is in this line so he probably can build a case using his own line of PE and surveyors... my contractor say actually cost little to repair for him.. but he seems those unreasonable type who knows have more things which he will try to fussy with...

 

my contractor have been ignoring him till now.. he is coming after me only... so, looks like a standstill soon... he told me that he will proceed to repair at his end and "proceed" with me.. i expect to get his bill and some sort of PE cert/ surveyor's report soon ...

 

the legal costs are high so it is the last thing I wish to happen... both side lose lose if there is no conclusion or worst, I am held liable for this damage and his legal costs... the damage so little and legal fees will be unapproportionately high.... really silly... he may really be so sicko to proceed... that's what I am concerned with...

Don't need to get concerned over this. Just tell him to settle with contractor, and you will ignore any bill he sends to you since this is between him and your contractor.

[Freestylers09]

PE wont anyhow suga suga valid things one,it's their rice bowl..even know or what,hardly they will give baise view

 

thats is 3rd party PE step in, see he wana use anot lor

 

like i said,if thats the case,he go find back developer better..can claim more $ etc..he nid to prove from structural drawings,loading etc to find fault in u

 

need to get from developer or mangement office etc which i think they wont release one

 

i think he just wana make this chance to find someone to bear the cost nia la

 

these pple i seen alot..last time things in my premises hitted a lady's Beemer...i invited her to go sue if she want lor...see can anot ..lol

[Agentwilson]

 

aiseh, mcf also got PE come in.

fierce~

 

ID only architectural la. he see his tiles beh swee, wan u to sponsor him change new tiles ma.

ask PE lo, he can give u the structural standpoint of things

 

 

 

Not correct.

My sil has old HDB.

I was in her flat maybe 8 years ago when above neighbour started hacking.

She was in work I was there using her computer.

Could actually see a crack initiate and widen to about 3/8 inch and tiles fall off.

I'm PE so have some knowledge.

 

Anyway HDB refused to get involved and neighbour wouldn't pay anything.

 

[Itsec]

PE got dealt with all this mini minor meh....

 

i thought their concern is the structure dmg...

[Moredhel]

Don't need to get concerned over this. Just tell him to settle with contractor, and you will ignore any bill he sends to you since this is between him and your contractor.

 

 

Agree. From what I see here. His case is bullet proof and air tight.

 

 

To TS:

 

1st Point: You hired the contractor to do the job. Hence, any damage will be the liability of the contractor.

 

2nd Point: If hacking works can damage the surrounding area structures, then I will be claiming a few millions from LTA.

 

3rd Point: It is very hard if not outright impossible to PROVE that a cause here will have an effect over there.

**Is he willing to pay to dig up the pavement to find possible proof there might be a related shock line(even then, the liability can be pushed off)

 

4th Point: Do NOT admit any liability for anything over the phone, sms, etc.... If anything, just tell him to look for your contractor for any claims.

If he doesn't want to converse with your contractor, then he can converse with your ligitator.

 

5th Point: Tell him that his voice created a hole in your wall and in your 20 years experience as an acoustic talent, it's very common for

a cannon's voice like his to create such a hole. You will proceed with the repairs and bill to him.

 

6th Point: It's very obvious he's willing to rip you off. Hence, you no need to take it gentlemanly. Start sharpening your knives for a countersue.

[Vulcann]

Dear TS,

 

Any Civil PE would be hard-pressed to offer his professional advice in your case that the hacking works caused the cracking of the tiles.

 

(i) To do so, upon the PE's advice, the owner has to engage a accredited laboratory e.g. SETSCO to conduct in-situ tests using, say, a vibration meter to record the levels at his unit during the hacking of the walls at your unit which is a few units away according to you. Other more expensive tests like ultrasonic tests may also be required to measure the wave velocity through the RC/brick walls, RC slab, etc from one place to another.

 

(ii) With the laboratory report, the PE has to analyse the data and substantiate it with calculations to show that the forces generated by the hacking works some how is about to be transmitted all the way to the owner's unit to cause the tiles to crack.

 

Step (i) is easy to perform but step (ii) will be more difficult because the PE has to show clearly the vibration levels are able to be transmitted from your place all the way to the owner's unit. And to do that the PE must have access to your unit to measure all necessary dimensions e.g. wall thickness and the type/nos. of hacking equipment e.g. pneumatic breaker and most important an as-built drawing of your unit layout.

 

It is extremely difficult IMHO to show proof that it is your fault that the tiles cracked.

 

My advice:

 

For the sake of neighbourly behaviour, arrange a meeting between you, your neighbour, your contractor/ID to discuss if there is another way. The most workable way IMHO is to ask your contractor to replace the wall tiles for him FOC if the cost not that high. If too high, split 50-50. Tell him this is done on goodwill basis and that in no way you are admitting liability. Like in a private settlement in a traffic accident last time, draft a agreement letter and after getting it vet by any legally-trained personnel, get his signature to prevent any more such claims in the future.

 

My point is simple. If you going to reside there, it would not be pleasant when you guy some how cross paths in the future. The bad blood may affect everyone and cause unnecessary stress.

 

Just my 2 cts.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Vulcann

[Beehive3783]

Remember, the contractor must have 3rd party liability insurance before they start work. This is a must. So let the contractor settle with the neighbour. Whether they want to pay the neighbour or not, it's up to them.

[Alechi]

As with leaking ceiling, liability is 50-50.

[Fooblack]

Dear TS,

 

Any Civil PE would be hard-pressed to offer his professional advice in your case that the hacking works caused the cracking of the tiles.

 

(i) To do so, upon the PE's advice, the owner has to engage a accredited laboratory e.g. SETSCO to conduct in-situ tests using, say, a vibration meter to record the levels at his unit during the hacking of the walls at your unit which is a few units away according to you. Other more expensive tests like ultrasonic tests may also be required to measure the wave velocity through the RC/brick walls, RC slab, etc from one place to another.

 

(ii) With the laboratory report, the PE has to analyse the data and substantiate it with calculations to show that the forces generated by the hacking works some how is about to be transmitted all the way to the owner's unit to cause the tiles to crack.

 

Step (i) is easy to perform but step (ii) will be more difficult because the PE has to show clearly the vibration levels are able to be transmitted from your place all the way to the owner's unit. And to do that the PE must have access to your unit to measure all necessary dimensions e.g. wall thickness and the type/nos. of hacking equipment e.g. pneumatic breaker and most important an as-built drawing of your unit layout.

 

It is extremely difficult IMHO to show proof that it is your fault that the tiles cracked.

 

My advice:

 

For the sake of neighbourly behaviour, arrange a meeting between you, your neighbour, your contractor/ID to discuss if there is another way. The most workable way IMHO is to ask your contractor to replace the wall tiles for him FOC if the cost not that high. If too high, split 50-50. Tell him this is done on goodwill basis and that in no way you are admitting liability. Like in a private settlement in a traffic accident last time, draft a agreement letter and after getting it vet by any legally-trained personnel, get his signature to prevent any more such claims in the future.

 

My point is simple. If you going to reside there, it would not be pleasant when you guy some how cross paths in the future. The bad blood may affect everyone and cause unnecessary stress.

 

Just my 2 cts.

 

Thanks. In fact, my contractor wants me to ignore him liao. Cos they feel that he is totally ridiculous to start with.

 

However, for the sake of goodwill, I have arranged a meeting with him and my contractor. He has refused to talk to my contractor directly cos he was upset over what my contractor commented when they viewed the wall tiles at his place.

 

The meeting is basically for my contractor to convince him that the cracks cannot be possibly caused by my house-hacking. Basically to shut him up and move on. My contractor is prepared to argue with him scientifcally. So, next time when I move in, I can at least hold my head up and he cannot see us as if I owe him something.

 

In fact, my mgmt office has revealed privately to me that he is quite a trouble-maker. Already clashed a few times with the mgmt and with other neighbours. Gd thing this was revealed to me so that at least I can live with a clear conscience in the event that I do not make good to him. More likely than not, he is just trying to get someone to fix his wall tiles foc.

 

I was hoping to get to know and live in peace with my new neighours... like my current place. Things are amicable and we share some basic frenship. Guess this may not be possible, at least with this unfriendly neighbour of mine... i think in life, it is impt to give and take...

 

 

[Nothingtodo]

As with leaking ceiling, liability is 50-50.

 

You mean HDB and work done long time ago, yes. If work just done to above, and start leak below, the contractor above liable to seal leak and HDB encourage the contractor to restore your ceiling (painting only).

 

 

[Vulcann]

Thanks. In fact, my contractor wants me to ignore him liao. Cos they feel that he is totally ridiculous to start with.

 

However, for the sake of goodwill, I have arranged a meeting with him and my contractor. He has refused to talk to my contractor directly cos he was upset over what my contractor commented when they viewed the wall tiles at his place.

 

The meeting is basically for my contractor to convince him that the cracks cannot be possibly caused by my house-hacking. Basically to shut him up and move on. My contractor is prepared to argue with him scientifcally. So, next time when I move in, I can at least hold my head up and he cannot see us as if I owe him something.

 

In fact, my mgmt office has revealed privately to me that he is quite a trouble-maker. Already clashed a few times with the mgmt and with other neighbours. Gd thing this was revealed to me so that at least I can live with a clear conscience in the event that I do not make good to him. More likely than not, he is just trying to get someone to fix his wall tiles foc.

 

I was hoping to get to know and live in peace with my new neighours... like my current place. Things are amicable and we share some basic frenship. Guess this may not be possible, at least with this unfriendly neighbour of mine... i think in life, it is impt to give and take...

 

Your contractor might have denied ALL responsibilities which caused your neighbour to refused any more dealings with him.

 

Like I said earlier, it would be good for everyone, including yourself, to sit down and discuss amicably any way out of this standoff. Come to think of it, maybe a rep from your MC might be a good neutral party to be included as well. Re-consider again.

 

What you hear from others can only be used a background information and not able to do any good during your negotiations with him.

 

Maybe after the goodwill repair work has been carried out, you two might click and you find yourself a new beer buddy cum free ID consultant

 

If however your decision is still to ignore him totally, then so be it.

 

Just remember my earlier points and be prepared to challenge any claims. The other party has to prove beyond doubt technically that the hacking works ACTUALLy caused the cracks.

 

If he has got a PE to back him up, you have to be ready to engage your own PE to prove otherwise.

 

Legally, another bro has brought out very good points already for your further inference.

 

Take care and all the best.