Team orders again for Ferrari

[Jchuacl]

Today in the German GP, we have a repeat of Austria where we have another Brazilian who had to cede 1st place to his team mate. This really spoils the day on F1 yet again.

[Troyempire]

Control by Boo-Kee???

[Ftco]

  On 7/25/2010 at 2:06 PM, Jchuacl said:

Today in the German GP, we have a repeat of Austria where we have another Brazilian who had to cede 1st place to his team mate. This really spoils the day on F1 yet again.

 

That was a sham! Pui!

[Kangz]

Ferrari, and also the Shoemaker, still doesn't get it after so many years in the sport. You can say all you want that this is a team sport, but people just don't wanna see manufactured results. This leaves a more bitter taste in the fans' mouth, especially when it's only halfway through the season and they're already writing off Massa?

[Bird5011]

Team orders or not...Alonso is faster than Massa..

Massa should have let Alonso overtake...

This rule on team orders is ridiculous..why stop teams from controlling their race.

[Ferraricalifornia]

if you want to overtake,

 

overtake lah....

 

why must call back to the team leader,

 

to ask your partner to clear the way for you???

 

Alonso Sore Loser lah....

[Kac]

  On 7/26/2010 at 12:17 AM, Bird5011 said:

Team orders or not...Alonso is faster than Massa..

Massa should have let Alonso overtake...

This rule on team orders is ridiculous..why stop teams from controlling their race.

 

If Fred is faster, then why couldn't he overtake Massa in the first place w/o Rob needing to go on the radio?

 

$100,000 seems like just a slap in the wrist, until the WMSC convenes..

[Raycsk]

Right or Wrong? This is a case of too many forces too many complications.

 

F1 relies heavily on Marketing $$ and teams used these drivers to draw in the cash. So when you have a star driver with a HUGH Sponsor; its obvious you want to clearly show that he's the better driver.

 

There also these complicated driver and sponsor contracts that complicate these things.

 

Yes both drivers belong to same team and teams fight for contructor's points. Where the drivers finish 1st or 2nd (or any other top 10 position) irrgeardless of which driver is infront, the team still gets the same points.

 

So in a race a driver would race for the team and for himself. Not forgetiing that racing for himself would result in a better looking CV.

 

 

Then there's the fans....

But for the thousands of others who pay to watch F1. What do they pay to watch? Motor Racing of course. Is this the true essence of Motor Racing?

 

Taking into consideration the constructors and drivers points and ignoring all this leaglities and marketing pressure, if you were Filippe Masa, would you have conceded?

 

The forces that made F1 truly sensational has also destroyed the true principle of racing.

 

Don't blame the teams nor the drivers; blame the system.

 

 

[Dojon]

  On 7/26/2010 at 12:11 AM, Kangz said:

Ferrari, and also the Shoemaker, still doesn't get it after so many years in the sport. You can say all you want that this is a team sport, but people just don't wanna see manufactured results. This leaves a more bitter taste in the fans' mouth, especially when it's only halfway through the season and they're already writing off Massa?

 

They already say they are probably not renewing Messa's contract at the end of the season. Anyway, in Ferrari their culture is to have a devoted number 2 driver to support the team's number 1. In the case of Schumi and Rubens back in the glory days, they eventually thought Massa could replace Schumi when he retires that's why rubens service was terminated early. Another sign was last couple of season where Kimi and Massa was even and 1 had to go but it is just unfortunate that Kimi wasn't showing the results when Massa was out half of last season.

 

Apparently, Alonso is the man to who could give an extra mile to a car that was not so impressive in the case of Renault when he went back from Mclaren. So it is either Massa could agree to a Rubens role in Ferrari or he will be driving other cars next season.

[Rjmsfire]

It was clear as day that Ferrari issued team orders to poor Felipe. Rob Smedley told Felipe after the overtaking "sorry" and after the finishing line was crossed "you've been magnanimous". In normal situations, the race engineer would be cajoling his driver to go faster if the guy behind is fast approaching or if he'd been overtaken, to attempt a fightback. Not in Ferrari....

 

I presume Felipe meekly complied since he had been underperforming this year and he played the 'team game' to be rewarded with a contract renewal for next year.

[Dojon]

  On 7/26/2010 at 2:44 AM, Raycsk said:

Right or Wrong? This is a case of too many forces too many complications.

 

F1 relies heavily on Marketing $$ and teams used these drivers to draw in the cash. So when you have a star driver with a HUGH Sponsor; its obvious you want to clearly show that he's the better driver.

 

There also these complicated driver and sponsor contracts that complicate these things.

 

Yes both drivers belong to same team and teams fight for contructor's points. Where the drivers finish 1st or 2nd (or any other top 10 position) irrgeardless of which driver is infront, the team still gets the same points.

 

So in a race a driver would race for the team and for himself. Not forgetiing that racing for himself would result in a better looking CV.

 

 

Then there's the fans....

But for the thousands of others who pay to watch F1. What do they pay to watch? Motor Racing of course. Is this the true essence of Motor Racing?

 

Taking into consideration the constructors and drivers points and ignoring all this leaglities and marketing pressure, if you were Filippe Masa, would you have conceded?

 

The forces that made F1 truly sensational has also destroyed the true principle of racing.

 

Don't blame the teams nor the drivers; blame the system.

 

Lol, first of all there is no such word =P.

 

I dun agree with a driver to race for himself for a better looking CV. I am not sure whether F1 is really a team sport yet but looking at all team sport and taking soccer as an example, would there be a difference for a striker or midfielder or even the goalkeeper to score the winning goal for the team ? What matters is the result for the team at the end of the game/race.

 

Speaking about the race, as Alonso is clearly faster that Massa, so instead of letting him pass easily is the safe option because they do not want a repeat of Vettel and Webber trying to fight for the place and end up losing the race. I think it is better called as a team strategy rather than orders. ;)

Edited July 26, 2010 by Dojon

[Kac]

  On 7/26/2010 at 2:46 AM, Dojon said:

They already say they are probably not renewing Messa's contract at the end of the season. Anyway, in Ferrari their culture is to have a devoted number 2 driver to support the team's number 1. In the case of Schumi and Rubens back in the glory days, they eventually thought Massa could replace Schumi when he retires that's why rubens service was terminated early. Another sign was last couple of season where Kimi and Massa was even and 1 had to go but it is just unfortunate that Kimi wasn't showing the results when Massa was out half of last season.

 

Apparently, Alonso is the man to who could give an extra mile to a car that was not so impressive in the case of Renault when he went back from Mclaren. So it is either Massa could agree to a Rubens role in Ferrari or he will be driving other cars next season.

 

Massa's contract has already been renewed till 2012 prior to this..

[Assaxefour]

In a football league match, If a player got chance to score but decided to pass to his teammate to score because his teammate is up for golden boot, is this acceptable? There is a thing called construction championship so there must be a team strategy right? I see nothing wrong with Ferrari action even though FIA said its wrong. FIA is wrong. Of course if a teammate collide intentionally with other team in order for his teammate to win is wrong.

[Kac]

  On 7/26/2010 at 2:54 AM, Dojon said:

Lol, first of all there is no such word =P.

 

I dun agree with a driver to race for himself for a better looking CV. I am not sure whether F1 is really a team sport yet but looking at all team sport and taking soccer as an example, would there be a difference for a striker or midfielder or even the goalkeeper to score the winning goal for the team ? What matters is the result for the team at the end of the game/race.

 

Speaking about the race, as Alonso is clearly faster that Massa, so instead of letting him pass easily is the safe option because they do not want a repeat of Vettel and Webber trying to fight for the place and end up losing the race. I think it is better called as a team strategy rather than orders. ;)

 

If Stefano was more concerned about the results, here's a news flash: SF would still have scored 43 points regardless of whether they engineer the swap. The swap in question only benefited Alonso per se...

 

Article 39.1: Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited, regardless of how you call it.

[Kac]

  On 7/26/2010 at 3:03 AM, Assaxefour said:

In a football league match, If a player got chance to score but decided to pass to his teammate to score because his teammate is up for golden boot, is this acceptable? There is a thing called construction championship so there must be a team strategy right? I see nothing wrong with Ferrari action even though FIA said its wrong. FIA is wrong. Of course if a teammate collide intentionally with other team in order for his teammate to win is wrong.

 

For sure,team strategy is to score the maximum 43 points for a One-Two? So how will they change if they engineer the swap? 25-18 and 18-25 adds up the same to me..

Edited July 26, 2010 by Kac

[Assaxefour]

The system is wrong

Edited July 26, 2010 by Assaxefour

[Assaxefour]

  On 7/26/2010 at 3:10 AM, Kac said:

For sure,team strategy is to score the maximum 43 points for a One-Two? So how will they change if they engineer the swap? 25-18 and 18-25 adds up the same to me..

Now we are talking about golden boot liao. Striker are selfish(unless you are emile heskey) F1 driver are even worse. It depends on who the team(coach) favor.

 

[Ravary]

I feel team orders should be a part of strategy, it is for teams to decide when and if they want to use it or not. FIA should relax this rule. Ferrari are just manipulating their own drivers, so i don't see anything unethical with it. The drivers are only as good as what the constructors give them. So if the drivers don't put the team's ambition as priority, then they are fighting a losing battle. Lose a race or lose a place in the team.