Weak cranking during cold startup

[Nmnhnlm]

Sounds like battery problem. Dropping to 6V when cranking is too much voltage drop.

[Ahkeong]

  On 5/16/2010 at 3:32 PM, Jamesc said:

Borrow another battery and put in your car and see if the symptoms persist.

 

If it cures it then its your battery, u can claim warranty.

 

If it persist then check your alternator, very likely its that.

 

Hi Bro,

 

That's the problem.. the defi meters have been serving as battery indicator for me.. as the battery gets weaker, the number of meter that light up goes down.. On saturday, all the meters doesn't light up and cranking became so weak that I thought i can't get the car up.. After I crank a few times, I managed to get it up. I drove to the batt shop immediately to check on the problem. The batt workshop tested that batt was okay and suspect that starter problem so they took it out and rebuilt it. After that, the problem still persist but better. They told me that theh cranking is normal and keep saying that the batt is okay. I have no choice but to drive away.. Then sun on cold startup, the problem became worse.. thus I realised that it is a cold startup problem. That's why I post here to see if any bro has experienced similar symptoms before I go down to workshop again. Afraid kana chop carrot again.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Ahkeong

[Ultramega]

Did you install anything into your car recently? Maybe the mech did something wrong and left something in "always on" state thus draining your batt.

[Ahkeong]

  On 5/16/2010 at 2:52 PM, Gendut said:

However, during the cranking, they tested that voltage changed from 12V to 6V.

 

Lets assume that your starter motor is ok since it was stripped and rebuilt.

 

If before cranking it is 12V is strange. To drop to 6V is even stranger. I shall also assume yr 6V reading is inaccurate. So what is left (after you've described other symptoms) is the fact that cold cranking is slow.

 

Without realy putting yr own hands on the car and the absence of other indications, thats very diff to diagnose. May I suggest you disconnect the aircon compressor clutch actuation during starting and see if it makes a difference. Forgot that the same symptoms would manifest.

 

Is yr aircon extraordinarily cold?

 

The aircon is pretty normal, nothing exceptional.

[Ahkeong]

  On 5/16/2010 at 5:49 PM, Ultramega said:

Did you install anything into your car recently? Maybe the mech did something wrong and left something in "always on" state thus draining your batt.

 

I don't recall installing anything recently for the past one year. If that's the case, will the batt workshop be able to test out? They just keep insisting that batt is fully charged.. thus no issue with the batt.

[Ultramega]

  On 5/16/2010 at 5:53 PM, Ahkeong said:

I don't recall installing anything recently for the past one year. If that's the case, will the batt workshop be able to test out? They just keep insisting that batt is fully charged.. thus no issue with the batt.

 

I don't know if this will work for cars, for other electrical devices, can test by connecting an amp meter in series in the off state (ie, for cars, engine off). If the reading is not zero then something is draining the batt. But of cos u got to disconnect everything that is supposed to be on when engine is off that you may have (eg, security system). This can be done as simply as removing the correct fuse.

 

Else, the layman method is to re-create the exact scenario before the test. Which means, since it's a cold start problem, drive the car to the workshop and leave it parked for as long as needed to allow the car to cool fully, then test.

[Yeobh]

From the infos offer by TS, the problem is the battery is not able to do high discharge that means it's not able to store engough energy to cranking. To comfrim just use a battery high discharge tester ( see photo) to do the test. Simple as ABC.

It's is not a parasite drain problem ( my view), if it's normally the battery is dead over night. Too cold - how cold can Spore be??? To do a parasite drawn test the mech can connect a amp meter in series to the battery positive terminal or us a clamp-on amp meter.Ignition switch on and check for amp flow - if there the flow is more than 30miliamp then confirm there is a problem in hand. The next step is to do a isolation test on each and every suspected fuse with this amp tester ( see photo)

Edited May 16, 2010 by Yeobh

[Yuan]

  On 5/16/2010 at 3:33 PM, Pisces69 said:

===============

 

Its time to look for a new battery shop then.

 

That was just a make do shop as my car then was stranded in a petrol kiosk and the shop is just next to it.

[Legan]

Don't let the brand of battery sway our troubleshooting.

 

Any battery can fail within a year. Sometimes it's the battery cannot hold a charge. Sometimes it's because there is a partially broken weld inside the battery. If it's partially broken, you will still be able to measure 12+V but the battery won't be able to push out the high current needed for cranking.

 

I'm a fan of Argus Battery Bug. Bought for $70.00, now the fellow selling $59.00.

 

When there is a problem I can tell whether it's charging problem or battery problem.

 

nxgadgets.blogspot.com

[Gendut]

  On 5/16/2010 at 5:53 PM, Ahkeong said:

I don't recall installing anything recently for the past one year. If that's the case, will the batt workshop be able to test out? They just keep insisting that batt is fully charged.. thus no issue with the batt.

 

Ok looks like yr alternator not charging or yr battery not holding charge.

 

Test yr alternator charge by measuring voltage at batt terminals while revving the engine. It should be 13.8~14.2V.

 

Overnight batt voltage should retain at least 12.5V before cranking. Good luck.

 

P.S: I just took out my alternator due to it not charging the batt. Excitor carbon brushes/slip rings were worn. Please do not replace yr alternator unnecessarily. It could still be refurbished. Let me know if you need contacts for that.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Gendut

[Legan]

  On 5/17/2010 at 1:46 AM, Gendut said:

Ok looks like yr alternator not charging or yr battery not holding charge.

 

Test yr alternator charge by measuring voltage at batt terminals while revving the engine. It should be 13.8~14.2V.

 

Overnight batt voltage should retain at least 12.5V before cranking. Good luck.

 

P.S: I just took out my alternator due to it not charging the batt. Carbon brushes were worn. Please do not replace yr alternator unnecessarily. It could still be refurbished. Let me know if you need contacts for that.

 

 

That's good information on refurbishment of alternator. Booking marking this thread. [thumbsup]

[Pisces69]

  On 5/17/2010 at 12:45 AM, Yuan said:

That was just a make do shop as my car then was stranded in a petrol kiosk and the shop is just next to it.

 

==========

 

oh like that u better chk yr battery more regularly next time.

 

[Ehchang8]

ya, sound like battery has no enough current. it's either battery can't hold the charge well, or something is draining the battery during the night.

not sure if it is useful if u can check the current the battery drawn when everything is off. and compare this with a normal car. i guess a good current reading should be low (powering remote and alarm only ?) .

or simply changed the battery.

 

i think,

alternator faulty will have problem also when warm starting, or even stopping in front of traffic light.

bad contact at battery, warm starting should have same problem.

 

[Dwoon]

Yah.... I also think the battery cannot hold its charge.

 

It is not cold start issue, its mis-leading........ so happens that the battery is drained when left for several hours....... so engine is cold and its thought to be a cold start problem......

 

If car is run and then stopped.... immediate cranking or minutes therefter would not be any issue..... this was what I get for a dying batt....

 

My 2 cents.

[Ahkeong]

  On 5/17/2010 at 1:21 AM, Legan said:

Don't let the brand of battery sway our troubleshooting.

 

Any battery can fail within a year. Sometimes it's the battery cannot hold a charge. Sometimes it's because there is a partially broken weld inside the battery. If it's partially broken, you will still be able to measure 12+V but the battery won't be able to push out the high current needed for cranking.

 

I'm a fan of Argus Battery Bug. Bought for $70.00, now the fellow selling $59.00.

 

When there is a problem I can tell whether it's charging problem or battery problem.

 

nxgadgets.blogspot.com

 

 

Hi Bro,

 

You're correct. The problem really is the battery. Just went down and the shop wanted to chop carrot out of me again suggesting that earth not enough. He then bring me to another shop to do the earthing but the man in the other shop is a honest chap. He just take out and diagnose that it is batt problem. Then no choice, the batt shop owner changed a new batt for me.

 

The batt itself cannot hold charge. When the engine is running, it charges the batt and it shows 100% but if just rely on the batt to crank, it will drain out super fast.

 

Morale of the story: Don't blindly believe brand and follow through the troubleshooting process.

 

Cost of the story: $120

 

Really thank all the bro all for their suggestion and hope this thread will reduce the number of carrots for the workshop.

 

[Unfair]

I thought Amaron batteries have a warranty period ?

 

When i bought mine, i think its 1 yr warranty.

 

[Tohto]

  On 5/17/2010 at 6:44 AM, Unfair said:

I thought Amaron batteries have a warranty period ?

 

When i bought mine, i think its 1 yr warranty.

 

I bought Amaron battery previous came with 2yr warranty. 1st year failure of battery is 1 to 1 exchanged. 2nd year failure is pro-rate at purchase base on time installed.

[Ahkeong]

  On 5/17/2010 at 6:44 AM, Unfair said:

I thought Amaron batteries have a warranty period ?

 

When i bought mine, i think its 1 yr warranty.

 

Hi Bro,

 

The battery has 1yr warranty but workshop told me not batt problem. They told me the problem is the starter motor thus ask me to rebuild which cost me $$..

 

After diagnosing the batt problem, i asked the workshop why must i pay for the starter motor since the problem is not that but they simply replied that even if the batt is okay, the starter still has problem.. LL loh.. me can't argue much since i dun know much.. Hopefully people will be wiser next time.