Illegal Mod car's worst fear

[Elfenstar]

I fully support what you have pointed out. LTA's rules and regulations on vehicle modifications are completely out of date. If they worry that a certain mod may not pass vehicle emission test, why don't make it easier for owner to install and then have it inspected? Why the need to go thru all the troubles of getting a certain exhaust system certified? Unless of course LTA wants a piece of the financial pie in the modifications scene.

 

You are right. However its not even a financial pie issue. They can still make the money without the hassle. Something as simple as allowing any exhaust mod/change as long as after the change the vehicle has to be inspected for fit/leaks, emission levels, and noise levels.

 

IMHO, they're just being lazy as this way they have to inspect more vehicles more thoroughly.

 

[Elfenstar]

Yes, LTA's rules are outdated but this absolutely doesnt mean that Officers of a certain authority should be taking bribes and allowing heavily modded cars which certainly poses more danger than otherwise to pass the inspection.

 

It's evident that your post stems out of too much personal feelings instead of impartial facts.

It's also missing the big macro picture. It sounds like "Me, Me, Me"

 

 

The reason is simple.

Becos driving a car does not only involve the driver alone.

It involves everyone who shares the roads.

There is no proper standards on car modifications so nobody knows if your turbo would blow up and cause you some shock, thereby ploughing into innocent people.

 

Once you look at it less personally and more macro, you will understand.

 

Spot on. It couldnt have been said better

[Elfenstar]

Because someone in the fami-lee thinks we have a strange inability to think for ourselves.

 

Well looking at the iphone fanboys and fangirls here, you wouldn't be surprised at the way the fami-lee thinks about us now would you

 

[Elfenstar]

As a former illegal modder I can tell u both sides of the story

 

Lets use exhausts as an example. They allow us to change them because safety isn't affected, however there are limitations because of noise, and pollution aspects of changing them. Granted the implementation isn't good, but the idea behind it is sound.

 

Lets use non-factory hid systems as an example now. Contrary to popular belief, you can change them provided you get the entire system put in, from headlights, to bulbs to the harness. Sure there are no negative environmental aspects (maybe even positive as it consumes less power), however the light spread causes glare to other road users if aligned properly, and doesnt throw light far enough if aligned improperly so as not to cause glare to others. Not to mention our workshop trade is unregulated, so they don't know if the electrical work done or quality of materials is good enough, and considering the high voltage for HID's, it becomes a big fire or electrical shock hazard.

 

What LTA is trying to control are the safety aspects and environmental impact, and the ideas are sound. Once again though, its the implementation thats bad, and also much of their info is backdated.

 

[Elfenstar]

give and take bro. there's a reason why Geylang is still in operation. There's also a reason why illegal mods are still around.

 

Same reason why COEs had to come down from 50k to $1, now back again.

 

Geylang is going to be shifted to Tuas..... or well thats the long term plan However it will never be gone for one simple reason. Prostitution is not illegal

 

[Elfenstar]

Modding would compromise safety of a standard factory car ?

 

my toes are laughing

 

which moron will mod his car to be more unsafe than the stock setup?

 

pple install big brake kits to improve braking, performance coilover suspensions to improve handling, etc etc.

put danger on the road?

 

Hmm I'm not sure if BBK's are illegal or not, but if the bias is changed too much from factory, it can become unsafe as braking can become worse. AFAIK, coillovers are not illegal are they?

 

However there are unsafe (or less safe) mods that can be done. e.g. seam welding the frame of a car for additional rigidity which will result in a higher probability of a car breaking apart in an accident (think cast iron. strong but brittle), installing a full roll-cage, good for safety on the track, but if your car catches fire on the road, do you think the fire brigade will be able to get to you as quickly as a trackside fire team to get you out quickly enough? What about aftermarket forced induction to an extent where the vehicles chassis can't take the torque put out and becomes weaker in cases of an accident?

 

Don't forget there are environmental factors like noise and emissions that they have to look at too. If you fancy being woken up at 3am every morning due to someones loud exhaust? Or perhaps you like the air pollution from vehicles in BKK? Or if you're a motorcyclist/pedestrian/cyclist, would you enjoy having black smoke blown into your face everytime a heavily modified turbocharged car blasts past you at WOT?

 

[Benjamin00000]

passing the buck lah. all 3 will kena one. car owner no excuse saying that he doesn't know the mods are illegal.

 

good grief.

 

I believe the workshop knows how to cover their backside. Pay cash. No record. No proof. Case closed.

[Kb27]

I am disappointed that you don't wish to continue, but I won't allow you to have the last say with a cheap parting shot calling my reasoning into question. You have to earn that right by cogent argument, and by consistency in your position.

 

So please answer me this : what was your reaction (or what's your reaction now, if you're only recently learning of it) to the case of clear-cut high-level corruption I alluded to in my previous post pertaining to the HPL condo purchase saga? Do you feel either justice, the spirit, or even the letter, of the law, were served by the outcome?

 

Since you're clearly implying that you believe that any form of corruption is beyond the pale, please humour me and give me your candid opinion on that case.

HPL case is wide open for everyone to decide.

[Vogelspinen]

One point to add, LTA's current rule, to me, is a bit double standard. Like the "drift racing" exhaust system they recently approved for Lancer CS3. Its expensive like hell, performance is rubbish, and its godawfully loud, but its LEGAL. Which to me, is extremely stupid. I can have an aftermarket or custom exhaust system which is waaaaaay quieter and has better performance and costs 1/4 the price, but its illegal just because its not LTA-approved?

 

Bullsh*t.

[Throttle2]

I am disappointed that you don't wish to continue, but I won't allow you to have the last say with a cheap parting shot calling my reasoning into question. You have to earn that right by cogent argument, and by consistency in your position.

 

So please answer me this : what was your reaction (or what's your reaction now, if you're only recently learning of it) to the case of clear-cut high-level corruption I alluded to in my previous post pertaining to the HPL condo purchase saga? Do you feel either justice, the spirit, or even the letter, of the law, were served by the outcome?

 

Since you're clearly implying that you believe that any form of corruption is beyond the pale, please humour me and give me your candid opinion on that case.

 

 

Paiseh I didnt follow the HPL case.

was there clear cut high level corruption?

If there was, my answer remains the same.

I hope they get weeded out.

 

secondly, plse dont put words in my mouth (see bold).

 

Here is my view again:-

 

"My point is very simple and it is not against modifications per se.

Modify all you want but when undergoing inspections, no officer of authority should be taking bribes.

If he so, in his expert assessment feels that the modification is minor and not a big deal, he should allow the car to pass.

but not becos of a bribe.

 

Abusing powers (especially with acceptance of bribe) and applying flexibility to the situation by understanding the true issue are two different matters."

 

 

As people understand that the above is not possible becos there is no way of setting a standard in modifications, (otherwise it wont be called modification) they then use bribery as a way to overcome this.

 

Your stand is that the inadequate laws caused this and so this corruption is acceptable to you. Fine by me becos thats your opinion.

My stand is we should not be blaming inadequecies of law and such downright corruption by accepting bribes of this nature is unacceptable to me. no need to pull in any other example of hpl or lppl etc... and stuff it down my throat.

 

Your reasoning is steady, you go ahead.

My reasoning is otherwise, i go other way.

 

I dont disagree with you very generally speaking, i repeat.

The fact that you are questioning me again is true color that your personal experience is clouding your comprehension of my simple words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zangetsu77]

Hmm I'm not sure if BBK's are illegal or not, but if the bias is changed too much from factory, it can become unsafe as braking can become worse. AFAIK, coillovers are not illegal are they?

 

However there are unsafe (or less safe) mods that can be done. e.g. seam welding the frame of a car for additional rigidity which will result in a higher probability of a car breaking apart in an accident (think cast iron. strong but brittle), installing a full roll-cage, good for safety on the track, but if your car catches fire on the road, do you think the fire brigade will be able to get to you as quickly as a trackside fire team to get you out quickly enough? What about aftermarket forced induction to an extent where the vehicles chassis can't take the torque put out and becomes weaker in cases of an accident?

 

Don't forget there are environmental factors like noise and emissions that they have to look at too. If you fancy being woken up at 3am every morning due to someones loud exhaust? Or perhaps you like the air pollution from vehicles in BKK? Or if you're a motorcyclist/pedestrian/cyclist, would you enjoy having black smoke blown into your face everytime a heavily modified turbocharged car blasts past you at WOT?

 

Haha, Sir, the turbo-charged car shouldn't be putting out the black smoke. It's typically the poorly maintained vans, lorries and pick-ups. Not to forget SBS buses, if you are next to them the exhaust fumes are overwhelming even though colourless. But you got a good point with the safety bits. All cars can be modified within safe limits, but past a certain point (e.g. 600HP or more Evos, WRXs), reliability and integrity becomes significant issues.

[Ghostrider]

No...if I am the workshop...I will say..."He pay me extra to take out the illegal modification. After inspection, he put it back in again"...

 

Let LTA go give the owner a big cuppa kopi to drink at Lane 8

[Ghostrider]

Why workshop will kenna ? If modification is illegal...then you see a lot of workshop will be outta biz.

 

Modification is not against the law...its after modification, owner drive on the road, its illegal.

 

End of the day, wanna play, be prepared to pay.

[Krado]

Well looking at the iphone fanboys and fangirls here, you wouldn't be surprised at the way the fami-lee thinks about us now would you

 

Its not just iPhone.. There's also Turbo GTI and Mercedes C180 with $3k a month........ And someone who gets an eReCCCctiOn when driving.

[1fast1]

Paiseh I didnt follow the HPL case.

was there clear cut high level corruption?

If there was, my answer remains the same.

I hope they get weeded out.

 

The "weeds" in your metaphor are standing taller than us lowly grass in this country. We're talking FamiLee here. So good luck getting them to be accountable for anything.

 

That's what I'm saying - I hate the fact that in this silly place, "they" keep harping on about being strict enforcers of the law when it comes to the common peasantry, but noone is willing to hold the masters accountable for their own wrongdoings (and believe me, they do a lot of wrong). I will concede that it's a bit of a stretch to bring this up in a discussion on corruption pertaining to illegal vehicle modification, but my argument pertains to the principle, not the details.

 

secondly, plse dont put words in my mouth (see bold).

 

Was I? This is from your post:

 

I feel it's good that frauds and compromises in the system are eliminated.

These are clear cases of bribery and misuse of certain position which i dont stand for

 

and I took that to mean that you're against all forms of corruption. Was I wrong in my inference, or are you saying you're OK with some forms of corruption and not others? I'm not "putting words in (your) mouth" again - I merely seek to clarify the consistency of your stance on corruption in this country.

 

Here is my view again:-

 

"My point is very simple and it is not against modifications per se.

Modify all you want but when undergoing inspections, no officer of authority should be taking bribes.

If he so, in his expert assessment feels that the modification is minor and not a big deal, he should allow the car to pass.

but not becos of a bribe.

 

Abusing powers (especially with acceptance of bribe) and applying flexibility to the situation by understanding the true issue are two different matters."

 

All this would be well and good, except that you're completely missing the point that the law does not accept substituted judgement by the enforcers as a valid argument. Essentially, the enforcers would be breaking the law if they "looked the other way" even without accepting a financial inducement. As I see it, they're accepting the money as a compensation for the legal risk they're subjecting themselves to.

 

Of course, I can see how allowing the situation to degenerate and become more widespread can cause real problems - e.g. if they were to allow, say, a heavy goods vehicle in an road-unworthy condition to pass inspection because of a financial inducement. I would not be able to accept that, because it's clear that that sort of thing can easily put innocent road users at risk.

 

However, I don't buy that properly modded vehicles are inherently dangerous. Most vehicular modifications actually improve the vehicle's dynamic characteristics and safety profile. A quicker accelerating car with better stopping power and a tighter suspension setup makes for a vehicle that's better able to escape from traffic situations, either by accelerating and/or swerving out of a tight spot, or by stopping in time to avert disaster. This presupposes the driver is able to handle the car competently, but let's face it, qualified "normal" drivers are crashing unmodified "normal" (slow) cars on a daily basis. It's actually rare to see this sort of thing happening with a souped-up car (disregard the sensationalistic reporting in the press), which speaks to the improved dynamic characteristics of the car, higher enthusiast-driver competence, or a combination of both.

 

Because of my own assessment that properly done vehicle modifications are perfectly safe on the roads, I'm personally fine with it. If officers are closing an eye, with or without a financial motive, I'm also OK with it.

 

So my position is that I trust my own moral compass over the law - if I think a law is silly, I'd be perfectly OK with its circumvention. I don't condone most forms of corruption, but when it makes it easier for the peasants to circumvent a dumb law, I say "go for it". The powers-that-be have been getting away scot-free with far worse.

 

I don't automatically expect you or anyone else to be fine with this, unless you've drawn the same conclusions. But don't call my reasoning into question (as you did in a previous post) - because you have no right to unless you've found and highlighted logical issues with my arguments. I have not impugned your logic/reasoning/judgement in my posts, why not accord me the same decency?

 

Your stand is that the inadequate laws caused this and so this corruption is acceptable to you. Fine by me becos thats your opinion.

My stand is we should not be blaming inadequecies of law and such downright corruption by accepting bribes of this nature is unacceptable to me. no need to pull in any other example of hpl or lppl etc... and stuff it down my throat.

 

I apologise if it came out that way - I was merely trying to get an idea of what you thought about a very high-profile corruption case that has never been adequately resolved (IMO) because of the positions of some of the key players. I want to see consistency in the enforcement of the laws of this land - I hate the selective enforcement that's so prevalent in our system.

 

Your reasoning is steady, you go ahead.

My reasoning is otherwise, i go other way.

 

I dont disagree with you very generally speaking, i repeat.

The fact that you are questioning me again is true color that your personal experience is clouding your comprehension of my simple words.

 

I don't quite know what to make of your last statement, but I'm not "questioning" you, we're merely having a civilised internet discussion about something. Anyway, I accept that you have your opinion, and I have mine - I only took exception with you calling my reasoning into question in a prior post. I think that issue has been clarified.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Turboflat4

[Throttle2]

I'm not "putting words in (your) mouth" again - I merely seek to clarify the consistency of your stance on corruption in this country.

 

and as per my reply, my stance is the same.

However, i do not take personal responsibility in that task.

 

However, I don't buy that properly modded vehicles are inherently dangerous. Most vehicular modifications actually improve the vehicle's dynamic characteristics and safety profile. A quicker accelerating car with better stopping power and a tighter suspension setup makes for a vehicle that's better able to escape from traffic situations, either by accelerating and/or swerving out of a tight spot, or by stopping in time to avert disaster. This presupposes the driver is able to handle the car competently, but let's face it, qualified "normal" drivers are crashing unmodified "normal" (slow) cars on a daily basis. It's actually rare to see this sort of thing happening with a souped-up car (disregard the sensationalistic reporting in the press), which speaks to the improved dynamic characteristics of the car, higher enthusiast-driver competence, or a combination of both.

 

On the above opinion, your view is biased to me becos you are talking about mods that are properly done (we just cant know if they are)

and you are only seeing the good side of mods....

 

Qualified normal drivers are crashing unmodded cars but the circumstances of which they crash are unknown.

There is no doubt (despite a lack of numerical evidence) that the bulk of modded cars are pulling power and torque which brings about a higher chance that the driver goes faster, brakes harder and pushes the car further. the souped up car driver may not crash but in driving an otherwise lower powered vehicle may prevent accidents indirectly caused to other vehicles.

 

This is arguable till the cows come home, i note. but i have experienced many a time, souped up cars edging me for a race but somehow not stock cars.

becos with a souped up car, these drivers have much more of a point to prove.

 

I am not against mods as i repeat, but the bribery part just doesnt go down well for me.

 

 

Cool.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Throttle2

[Ahbengdriver]

I see. In my view, if the law was fair and sensible, there wouldn't be a demand for this sort of minor corruption in the first place. Likewise, I wouldn't give a crap about someone at Customs closing an eye to the importation of chewing gum - because I consider the law banning the use of gum to also be a load of bollocks in this silly place. I don't necessarily believe in following unjust laws blindly. While the best way to fight them is head-on, trying to get laws repealed by popular opinion is almost impossible in an autocratic system - so I close an eye when some people try to circumvent silly laws with creative workarounds.

 

Most of these LTA regs regarding mods are overly restrictive, and the penalties for contravention are draconian. The LTA has a real racket going on, for instance, with the sale of "approved" aftermarket exhausts (for which they receive a healthy cut from the sole-approved importer, a very monopolistic system), and even then, these aftermarket systems give quite pathetic gains for the price one pays. Touching the cats is a strict no-no - so most people just remove them, figuring "might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb"; but the win-win solution would be for the LTA to recognise efficient high-flow aftermarket cats. But they stalwartly refuse to. And then there's their flip-flop positions on legal levels of window-tinting. There have been cases of poor motorists who've had their films unceremoniously ripped off by the inspectors, despite that level of tint having been allowed previously. For all these reasons, I consider the whole "vehicle inspection" game to be an unjust racket, and I don't care if people want to circumvent it.

 

If you want to talk about real corruption that's pretty much gone unpunished, just look back in time at the HPL condo saga involving the FamiLee. People who dared to raise questions about the whole fishy business were met with the usual response : a defamation suit, heard, ironically by a judge who was himself involved in said fishy business, yet refused to recuse himself. Such a mockery of justice. Who says people don't abuse their position in this place and get away with it? - in fact they get to lord it over us all.

 

So, when such high-level corruption gets the old wink-and-nod from the powers-that-be, I really don't care about relatively harmless low-level corruption. To those that have the balls to buck an unjust system, I say "more power to you".

" Join me my son. Togther we vote for the opposition at next election " quote - Darth Vader !!

[Pisces69]

This "coffee-money to pass" has been around for many years already.

 

I wonder why it took so long b4 action was taken?

 

Maybe cos a senior CPIB official had his car fail an inspection so he buay song & hit back?