Illegal Mod car's worst fear

[1fast1]

Dont get me wrong, I do generally agree with what you've said.

But you are twisting the skeleton facts by plucking other points from all over the shop and using them poorly out of context.

Basically in any court of law, your kind of argument will be thrown out immediately.

 

I don't know about "any court of law" (my emphasis). Certainly, I would expect this country's courts of law to be highly dismissive of cogently reasoned and objectively valid arguments if they happen to disagree with edicts by TPTB.

 

It might seem surprising that there are courts of law in other countries that do give fair hearings to the little man with a legitimate grievance against unjust, silly laws. But we're very far from achieving that in our own backyard. I'm sure that you cannot say that you consider every judgement by our "independent judiciaries" to be fair and just, at least with sincerity or a straight face.

 

Moving on to a bigger point, recognise that there are three distinct concepts that people often conflate - legality, justice and morality. The latter two are often legitimately concordant, but to mistake legality for either morality or justice would often be a grave error. Putting it simply, sometimes the law is immoral, unjust, or both. I often substitute my own personal moral compass for laws I consider to fall into this category - I concede that this might be a legally untenable position if caught out, but it's my philosophy, and I'm sticking to it.

 

Whether the Law is just or sensible is equivalent to asking is the COE cheap or expensive at $40k.

To some yes, to other no. so let's stick to what it actually is.

 

If everyone stuck to the law on the books, whether just or unjust, there would never be any civil progress. History is littered with heroes and martyrs whose whole raison d'etre was to defy unjust laws - to the painful death, if need be.

 

My point is very simple and it is not against modifications per se.

Modify all you want but when undergoing inspections, no officer of authority should be taking bribes.

If he so, in his expert assessment feels that the modification is minor and not a big deal, he should allow the car to pass.

but not becos of a bribe.

 

Abusing powers (especially with acceptance of bribe) and applying flexibility to the situation by understanding the true issue are two different matters.

 

I do not stand for the first one.

 

OK, this point I partially concede - bribery does have the 'ick' factor. But consider this, the inspector is taking a risk in closing an eye. If he does not accept a monetary inducement, there is no upside and a huge downside for him (he may not be able to feed his family if he loses his job for perceived gross incompetence). In economics, it should be apparent that every risk should carry a premium - a time value for an option, interest on a loan, etc. Going by this reasoning, you can "sort-of" see where the errant inspectors are coming from.

 

I agree that the ideal scenario would be truly heroic martyr inspectors who simply refuse to follow the more ridiculous requirements and impose their own personal judgement without expecting any financial rewards - but I don't think you're going to find any out there. As unjust as the LTA's regulations are, I don't think they're quite egregious enough to warrant martyrdom.

 

So, I, personally, am willing to wink at the low-level corruption rampant in the system. There are more deeply unjust things going on out there which go unanswered.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Turboflat4

[Sturtles]

You have said much, and to your credit, indeed, law is there to curtail human nature, and sometimes, justice and morality do not give enough juice and a common yardstick for the job.

 

However, to condone bribery simply because the inspector has a"soft" spot for illegal modification, is nonsensical and inexcusable.

 

Similarly, an immigration officer who accepts favour from an overstaying "chicken" is doing a great deed because he gave her a chance to earn more for the support of her ailing parents and fledgling kids and kins back home.

 

If both the above did it without taking any favour direct or indirectly, I will salute the person with respect from the deepest place of my heart.

 

If you have seen Jackie Chan at the latest charity fund raising, you will know that he is doing it out of real goodwill, or at least 90%, where as his good buddy who came along, Emil Chau is doing it out of commercial returns or at least 90%.

 

The act is both the same, but different.

[Kb27]

LTA is like a pimp. If there's money to be collected, prostitution can be legal.

[Shull]

Yes, LTA's rules are outdated but this absolutely doesnt mean that Officers of a certain authority should be taking bribes and allowing heavily modded cars which certainly poses more danger than otherwise to pass the inspection.

 

It's evident that your post stems out of too much personal feelings instead of impartial facts.

It's also missing the big macro picture. It sounds like "Me, Me, Me"

 

 

well..put a kuku in a stock cherry QQ and one way or another, he's gonna cause some accidents...it's (mostly) about the driver, not the car...

[1fast1]

You have said much, and to your credit, indeed, law is there to curtail human nature, and sometimes, justice and morality do not give enough juice and a common yardstick for the job.

 

However, to condone bribery simply because the inspector has a"soft" spot for illegal modification, is nonsensical and inexcusable.

 

Similarly, an immigration officer who accepts favour from an overstaying "chicken" is doing a great deed because he gave her a chance to earn more for the support of her ailing parents and fledgling kids and kins back home.

 

If both the above did it without taking any favour direct or indirectly, I will salute the person with respect from the deepest place of my heart.

 

If you have seen Jackie Chan at the latest charity fund raising, you will know that he is doing it out of real goodwill, or at least 90%, where as his good buddy who came along, Emil Chau is doing it out of commercial returns or at least 90%.

 

The act is both the same, but different.

 

This is a fair point, and I'll concede that bribery is axiomatically immoral. Ideally, I think we should all practise, as Gandhi advocated, non-violent civil disobedience - maybe just refuse to play their game until they come looking for you. And if they throw you in prison, so much the better for your cause.

 

This is almost exactly what CSJ has been doing in recent history, but, strangely, the public don't seem to be very supportive, for whatever reason.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Turboflat4

[Rendylee]

I heard the story is some idiot got caught and sabo the workshop one....something like...

 

LTA : Why your car got turbo still pass inspection ?

Owner : I pass to workshop and they take care of everything for me.

 

So LTA & CPIB go ask workshop go lim kopi lor...what an arse !!

 

passing the buck lah. all 3 will kena one. car owner no excuse saying that he doesn't know the mods are illegal.

 

good grief.

[Rendylee]

LTA is like a pimp. If there's money to be collected, prostitution can be legal.

 

give and take bro. there's a reason why Geylang is still in operation. There's also a reason why illegal mods are still around.

 

Same reason why COEs had to come down from 50k to $1, now back again.

 

 

[Kb27]

give and take bro. there's a reason why Geylang is still in operation. There's also a reason why illegal mods are still around.

 

Same reason why COEs had to come down from 50k to $1, now back again.

 

My point is, it's all about money.

 

If it's really caring for the society as a whole, all cars above x bhp should be banned.

[Sturtles]

This is a fair point, and I'll concede that bribery is axiomatically immoral. Ideally, I think we should all practise, as Gandhi advocated, non-violent civil disobedience - maybe just refuse to play their game until they come looking for you. And if they throw you in prison, so much the better for your cause.

 

This is almost exactly what CSJ has been doing in recent history, but, strangely, the public don't seem to be very supportive, for whatever reason.

 

 

CSJ is not getting public support because he is rubbing citizens up the wrong way. He does not understand what Singaporeans want at the most fundamental level.

 

Would you want a leader who only fantasize about what you want?

 

And by this, he is not deserving of a mandate determining support

[Throttle2]

from what I can see, taking sides have again mucked up many of your thoughts and good sense of reasoning.

 

so no point discussing further as my point is simple and have been made.

 

good weekend folks

[Kezg1]

I heard the story is some idiot got caught and sabo the workshop one....something like...

 

LTA : Why your car got turbo still pass inspection ?

Owner : I pass to workshop and they take care of everything for me.

 

So LTA & CPIB go ask workshop go lim kopi lor...what an arse !!

 

 

 

 

Can say " I modded in Bolehland"...TP..full-stop.

 

[1fast1]

CSJ is not getting public support because he is rubbing citizens up the wrong way. He does not understand what Singaporeans want at the most fundamental level.

 

Would you want a leader who only fantasize about what you want?

 

And by this, he is not deserving of a mandate determining support

 

You need not respect his position, but you must respect his commitment.

[1fast1]

from what I can see, taking sides have again mucked up many of your thoughts and good sense of reasoning.

 

so no point discussing further as my point is simple and have been made.

 

good weekend folks

 

I am disappointed that you don't wish to continue, but I won't allow you to have the last say with a cheap parting shot calling my reasoning into question. You have to earn that right by cogent argument, and by consistency in your position.

 

So please answer me this : what was your reaction (or what's your reaction now, if you're only recently learning of it) to the case of clear-cut high-level corruption I alluded to in my previous post pertaining to the HPL condo purchase saga? Do you feel either justice, the spirit, or even the letter, of the law, were served by the outcome?

 

Since you're clearly implying that you believe that any form of corruption is beyond the pale, please humour me and give me your candid opinion on that case.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Turboflat4

[Mr_b20]

Yes...I was about to say the same thing.

 

Many people forgot that their car on the road is also a manslaughter weapon. If they allow one to mod, how do they then regulate modding? There is no standard to modding....it's up to personal preferences. How would gov. knows that your modding won't kill others?

 

A car, when rolled out from the factory is assumed to be designed safely. Modding would compromise that and put danger on the road.

 

Modding would compromise safety of a standard factory car ?

 

my toes are laughing

 

which moron will mod his car to be more unsafe than the stock setup?

 

pple install big brake kits to improve braking, performance coilover suspensions to improve handling, etc etc.

put danger on the road?

[Elfenstar]

Interestingly enough the photograph there shows a Ford Sierra Cosworth... guess no one would be sending their cars for inspections through their workshops anytime soon.

 

In the newspaper edition it was reported that 4 of the inspectors admitted it to their company and have been sacked. The remaining 2 have been suspended. The 4 who admitted sure will get it from the CPIB.

 

The article does raise a valid point however - LTA's regulations are excessively stringent.

 

Excessively stringent where it doesnt count, and excessively slack where it does.......

 

[Elfenstar]

Seriously it is about time since many hv raised abt such vehicles that ply the roads. Wonder if those workshops will be penalized or not?

 

They will be for sure (or at least the person that did the bribing anyway).

 

[Elfenstar]

Say what also nevermind as long as dun drag the workshop into the picture lah.

 

Like you said...I dekit then send for inspection then re-install lor.

 

If you shoot the workshop...then be prepare for the workshop to point the arrow back at them lor.

 

Except as the owner they could say "I didn't know it involved bribes. I thought they would dekit the car, send it for inspection then out everything back in."

 

I doubt the workshops can prove that the owner knew bribery would be involved.

 

[Elfenstar]

sad no more lobang. old group dun go, new group cant flourish, after the dust has settled, someone will still take over the helm because there is no way every car out there is going to pass lta inspections!

 

True, but I suspect the price will be much higher as now the risks involved will be perceived to be greater.