Toyota problem covered up since 1996.,lands 1 man in prison

[Failali]

I will try in words of one syllable for you.

1. IF this model of Camry had problem, it does not automatically follow the accident was the fault of the problem. He may have been speeding, he may have panicked, he may have misjudged.

2. From the article he had only one year of driving experience - so this makes other possibilities more likely

3. Now were I the one to be making the judgement, I would say that his case bears investigation. I am not yet ready to say he is innocent.

 

i will try to spell it out in one syllable for you this time/

 

he may have been speeding, but certainly after the accelerator stuck, there is no reason for him to speed entering a freeway entrace. Not more so with his pregnant wife and kids around..

 

although this is all speculation, i am speaking on the viewpoint of common sense as well as maturity scenarioUnless if he is a daredevil that misses his twin turbo supra because of lack of family planning.

 

2)now we all know to stop a stuck accelerator in a limited time frame with panic as well as limited driving experience and limited distance in the hands of a driver that does not have emergency training is quite hard, and he lost dearly.

 

3)what more is there to investigate.. if the acclerator had not stuck in the first place, would all of this have had happened?

[Ender]

s--t man. I drive Toyotas. Does that mean that I can drive at 200km/h on the expressways here and claim innocence in court?

 

I still maintain that if you're the type that gets killed by having a stuck accelerator pedal or seemingly non-functioning brake pedal, you shouldn't have been driving in the first place. There're many ways to slow a car down to non-lethal crash speeds, but these fellas chose to panic and say their prayers instead of actually doing something. Callous as it sounds, I don't like the idea of drivers who can't react properly under emergency situations on the road.

If a car that puts the driver into a panic situation should not put on the road in the 1st place.

 

There's a video posted in another thread, showing a test done by the transport dept of the USA on the stuck accelerator on the lexus. Shift gear to neutral, or reverse do not work on that auto car. Everyone would have though putting neutral 1st and later brake would have worked, but the video show it didn't. Only a 3 sec start/stop push button will shut down the car. Does the toyotas have that push start /stop button. And with the shut down, the power steering and brake have a limited time of being active. Any car that put the driver thru this scenario, should not be put on the road.

[Failali]

It's a driver's responsibility to be in control of his car at all times, even if it malfunctions. You may not be able to control what happens outside the car, such as moronic jaywalking pedestrians, but if the only way you know how to slow down a car is through pressing a pedal, then you're going to be in deep trouble one day. If a tyre went flat on my car, can I disclaim responsibility if I then swerve into the car beside me? I hope not. At the very minimum, one needs to have thought through, at some point in time, what one would do if certain basic things were to fail, such as the accelerator or brake or clutch, etc. Not everyone needs to be an F1 driver or automotive engineer, but I find it irresponsible to operate machinery when one does not know how to react to possible emergency situations, especially when said machinery is very capable of causing deaths. The driving schools here need to do more than just teaching traffic rules. Sheesh, I wonder how many licenced drivers even know how to change a tyre or are aware of preventive maintenance issues. And what are you talking about... we SHOULD discriminate between people who can drive and people who can't! Why else is there a practical test before you get your licence?

 

Also, when one worries more about whether the gearbox will die when put into neutral at speed with engine off in an auto car with malfunctioning brakes (some comment that I came across on another forum), I think his sense of self-preservation is non-existent.

 

so tire blowouts in a race are always the driver's fault even if there are definate and damning proof the the tire is largely to blame, to your conjecture? no one knows what happens the next second, minute or even a day or year.. most of us are unprepared.. and mostly panic.. where all rational thoughts are off the window Like i said, each of us to a certain degree have slow reaction times as well as the amount of time to suppress the adrenaline .. it is all natural.

 

well in this scenario.. he had a valid driving license already,so why did the tester pass him? probably not long enough or experienced.. since he has only one year of driving license

[Darryn]

he may have been speeding, but certainly after the accelerator stuck, there is no reason for him to speed entering a freeway entrace. Not more so with his pregnant wife and kids around..

 

although this is all speculation, i am speaking on the viewpoint of common sense as well as maturity

 

I am pretty much in agreement, but just don't want to jump to conclusions. I think the case should be investigated, rather than saying here and now that this guy is innocent.

 

1) There is nothing concrete to suggest the accelerator did stick, so don't think you should say "once the accelerator stuck"

2) "No reason to" is not the same as didn't - every day I see people do things they "have no reason to do"

3) Yes - common sense is great. And common sense tells me that given recent issues, this case merits a second look. But I also know that not everything in this world follows common sense - some things that happen are nonsensical.

[Failali]

I am pretty much in agreement, but just don't want to jump to conclusions. I think the case should be investigated, rather than saying here and now that this guy is innocent.

 

1) There is nothing concrete to suggest the accelerator did stick, so don't think you should say "once the accelerator stuck"

2) "No reason to" is not the same as didn't - every day I see people do things they "have no reason to do"

3) Yes - common sense is great. And common sense tells me that given recent issues, this case merits a second look. But I also know that not everything in this world follows common sense - some things that happen are nonsensical.

 

ok, you got me, but there is one last argument before i wave the white flag..

 

Lee, a recent Hmong immigrant with only about a year of driving experience, was driving his pregnant wife, 4-year-old daughter, father and brother home from church the afternoon of June 10, 2006, when their Camry zoomed up an Interstate 94 exit ramp in St. Paul. Police said it was traveling between 70 and 90 mph when it rear-ended an Oldsmobile stopped at a red light.

1)if there is nothing concrete, then why did thier camry go up to 90mph suddenly?

 

peace out.

 

[Darryn]

ok, you got me, but there is one last argument before i wave the white flag..

 

Lee, a recent Hmong immigrant with only about a year of driving experience, was driving his pregnant wife, 4-year-old daughter, father and brother home from church the afternoon of June 10, 2006, when their Camry zoomed up an Interstate 94 exit ramp in St. Paul. Police said it was traveling between 70 and 90 mph when it rear-ended an Oldsmobile stopped at a red light.

1)if there is nothing concrete, then why did thier camry go up to 90mph suddenly?

 

peace out.

 

I dunno,

 

But again we don't know that it went to 90mph "suddenly". And by the way, I am now going to assume this was at least a 2.4 and maybe 3 litre camry - in a 3000 cc car, 90mph is not that fast.....

 

sorry...just to add - I could well imagine someone with only 1 year of experience not realising just how fast he was going, or how much braking is required to stop a car from that speed

Edited February 27, 2010 by Darryn

[Failali]

I dunno,

 

But again we don't know that it went to 90mph "suddenly". And by the way, I am now going to assume this was at least a 2.4 and maybe 3 litre camry - in a 3000 cc car, 90mph is not that fast.....

 

sorry...just to add - I could well imagine someone with only 1 year of experience not realising just how fast he was going, or how much braking is required to stop a car from that speed

 

 

 

if it was an auto, maybe.. cause if it was manual the car would kinda be redlining

 

as for the braking .. he did say he was pressing the brake pedal to the floor.. do you think he would have allowed it to have gone that fast then applied the brakes?

 

as for the not realizing i dont know, again it is all friendly assumptions, we were not there, nor we were the driver involved.

 

but once again, the focus of the thread is to highlight the problems and the plight that toyota has drawn to families.. alot of them as well.. as well as trying to cover its own ass by destroying implicating documents and taking its own sweet time to issue just an apology and to recall..Does such a company deserve existence in the first place?

 

 

 

 

peace out

[Fedup-camry]

expect more to come. so far, no bad news on the thai made models thus far. but my personal opinon, a touch expensive, even now.

 

That tom yam Camry is already proven problematic with suspension & steering ..... no live lost yet .. but who knows when will be he first one ...

 

Thai engineers came to see my Camry's suspension problem and fitted it with modified suspensions, rushed out from the factory. TRD people said the design of the suspension system is too weak

 

Now BM claim everything is "acceptable", else no reply, scared to implicate themselves with the claims

[Fedup-camry]

So next time I kena accident, I can also blame toyota anyhow.

Now that there is a precedence, all sorts of blame will seems logical to pin onto Toyota.

 

Its sad.

 

 

my Camry problems started 18 months ago, before there was any news of the massive recall of Toyota, so at least BM knows in their own heart what is going on

[Failali]

That tom yam Camry is already proven problematic with suspension & steering ..... no live lost yet .. but who knows when will be he first one ...

 

Thai engineers came to see my Camry's suspension problem and fitted it with modified suspensions, rushed out from the factory. TRD people said the design of the suspension system is too weak

 

Now BM claim everything is "acceptable", else no reply, scared to implicate themselves with the claims

 

bro what happened to your suspension? this is kinda new..

[Relagsingh]

If a Toyota bang u from behind, have to claim from toyota. not from the driver's insurance.

[Fedup-camry]

bro what happened to your suspension? this is kinda new..

 

 

it started with squeaky noise over hump around 20km/hr, then "clang clang clang" .....then BM says change. tom yam engineer came and test and modify new set of suspension....then squeaky and clang clang clang

 

it started around one year old, 20k km ...... and changed 5 sets (one time front & back complete set of 4) in 18 months.....you can google it, many reported in the US for the same model...BM said many in SG also complained ..but now they kept quiet, scared of class actions ???

 

steering shaft changed 4 times in 18 months

 

rack & pinion changed once

 

front lower arm changed once

 

wheel bearings changed one set

 

front brake discs skimmed once

 

strut top support also changed a few times

 

drive shaft cover changed once

 

the repair report now is one inch thick

 

what is not changed : engine, transmission, car seats and body, and driver lolz

 

i drive only between central to orchard, 6km one way, a few times a day only

Edited February 27, 2010 by Fedup-camry

[Topaz]

s--t man. I drive Toyotas. Does that mean that I can drive at 200km/h on the expressways here and claim innocence in court?

 

I still maintain that if you're the type that gets killed by having a stuck accelerator pedal or seemingly non-functioning brake pedal, you shouldn't have been driving in the first place. There're many ways to slow a car down to non-lethal crash speeds, but these fellas chose to panic and say their prayers instead of actually doing something. Callous as it sounds, I don't like the idea of drivers who can't react properly under emergency situations on the road.

 

There's many ways to slow a car....but each situation n circumstances is different, how u react under each circumstances is also different... Have u experience a brake mechanism failure??!

I think ur comment abt "I don't like the idea of drivers who can't react properly under emergency situations on the road." is an unfair statement... I think this genuine case of injustice cos by Toyota mechanism error, just becos ur driving a Toyota, dun give u the right to pass such thoughtless comment. This is a tragic accident, I don't see why anybody who want something like that to happen.... U know, I think Requiemdk statement is really shallow...

[Wishcumstrue]

If a car that puts the driver into a panic situation should not put on the road in the 1st place.

 

There's a video posted in another thread, showing a test done by the transport dept of the USA on the stuck accelerator on the lexus. Shift gear to neutral, or reverse do not work on that auto car. Everyone would have though putting neutral 1st and later brake would have worked, but the video show it didn't. Only a 3 sec start/stop push button will shut down the car. Does the toyotas have that push start /stop button. And with the shut down, the power steering and brake have a limited time of being active. Any car that put the driver thru this scenario, should not be put on the road.

 

There's many ways to slow a car....but each situation n circumstances is different, how u react under each circumstances is also different... Have u experience a brake mechanism failure??!

 

I think Requiemdk is trying to say that human error can be possible in any SUA incident.

And this can occur to any one at any time to any vehicles.

Lee can cry and claim innocent after 4 years behind bar, but there a few problems that works against him claim:

It was the US justice that put him in jail, not Toyota.

Police investigation cannot locate any mechanical fault either in the brake or accelerator system.

His 1996 Camry uses the cable-linked throttle, not the electronic bottler which had been blamed on recent recalls and incidents.

 

There are a few take away about this on-going Toyota saga the US:

a) US gov has yet to prove any single SUA report is related to electronics. Not even Dr Gilbert's testimony that he presented at US Congressional hearing in Feb.

b) US law firms are fighting for customers to log class-action suit against Toyota.

c) Toyota has not place blame on driver error in any single SUA reported, not even the obvious fakes.

 

 

 

 

[Wishcumstrue]

LINO LAKES, Minn.

[Osiris]

until new facts support what Lee said, anything could be possible.

 

Do calm down.

[Wishcumstrue]

until new facts support what Lee said, anything could be possible.

Do calm down.

 

Good news:

 

Lee's 1996 Camry will be re-inspected by experts on April 20 and 21.

 

Edit: added accident photo showing Lee family watching the on-going rescue effort at accident scene.

Note the "2006" year banner in the backgnd

Edited March 25, 2010 by Wishcumstrue

[Osiris]

my personal experience with a 2004/5 camry, ODO <10,000km

skidded at 30kmh or so. straight road, slightly wet from rain, gentle acceleration from 0.

ABS didn't kick in