Solution to solve rising HDB prices

[Lv3338]

The governement should not do anything to current situation....

and let the market dictate by demand and supply...

 

everytime the government do something..it come at the expense of the people....(e.g. car control- coe, erp)...

 

PR should continue buy resale...they are not the citizen here..should not be given all the benefit and rights....

only those cannot afford the resale ...are much using this to make noisy...

Edited January 31, 2010 by Lv3338

[Carer]

my son just bought a 3rm flat from a PR. tat PR earn $110k after staying in it for 8yrs plus. this $110k is 180% profit. now going back his country for good and nv coming back to sg.

 

having said that, property prices reflect on sg's economy. I m sure many would not wan prices to fall. can u imagine how many poor folks out there will suffer if property prices fall over a short time?

 

i believe prices will drop. however, this is will take many years when people start to realised workin in sg is not as good.

[Lv3338]

agree...as said...those people earn money from sg.... go back to their country....get $$$ from the expense of sillporean...

so first hand hdb to pr is a no no....else... u will see how much 2nd be inflated latter...

[Octopus]

before we all start crying foul that expensive flats is a bad thing, remember that there are a lot of existing HDB home owners out there. if new flats become plentiful and cheap, who will want to buy resale flats? too many new, cheap flats will cause all HDB flats to fall in value and cause existing flat owners (which far outnumber new flat seekers) to suffer.

 

the best scenario is for HDB flats to appreciate gradually which will allow existing flat owners to increase their asset value. this is critical as most S'poreans have substanstial savings tied up in HDB flat. at the same time, new flat owners can still afford to buy flats. that's why the HDB would rather slowly play catch-up with demand rather than oversupply.

 

my sympathy goes to the next generation who may soon face $1mil HDB flat. so what's the solution? make sure they do well in the society and earn enough to be able to afford a flat.

 

Existing HDB owner already have their units. How much will they suffer if the value decrease? If sell low, then likely can buy low as well. Its only if they had committed at high price then may experience a lost, but they can choose to keep their unit, then no lost to them.

 

Why should public housing be an asset which increase in value? I feel it should only increase very slowly, keeping ahead of inflation, and not something you can sell for an huge profit. Public housing by right are subsidised, so its not right to get something at a subsidised price and sell it for high profit. Unfortunately nowadays HDB direct sales are no more "subsidised", that had upset the balance and things got out of control. It would be interesting to see how the authority can set things right without upset the existing HDB owner or new HDB seeker too much.

[Ender]

before we all start crying foul that expensive flats is a bad thing, remember that there are a lot of existing HDB home owners out there. if new flats become plentiful and cheap, who will want to buy resale flats? too many new, cheap flats will cause all HDB flats to fall in value and cause existing flat owners (which far outnumber new flat seekers) to suffer.

 

the best scenario is for HDB flats to appreciate gradually which will allow existing flat owners to increase their asset value. this is critical as most S'poreans have substanstial savings tied up in HDB flat. at the same time, new flat owners can still afford to buy flats. that's why the HDB would rather slowly play catch-up with demand rather than oversupply.

 

my sympathy goes to the next generation who may soon face $1mil HDB flat. so what's the solution? make sure they do well in the society and earn enough to be able to afford a flat.

 

If people buy public housing for the sole purpose of having a roof over their head and NOT FOR PROFIT and INVESTMENT, the impact is not that much. Wanting public housing to appreciate sharply does not benefit much to current owner unless they don't need to buy another property in singapore, but greatly put a burden to the next generation.

 

People want to invest in property and hoping to reap profit should do it the private market. If they can't afford private, then they shouldn't be dabbling in property in the 1st place and contaminate the pricing of public housing.

 

Suggest that new public housing comes with a very low price pegging to the cost of building it instead of market rate. While letting the current HDB flat runs out it 99 yrs lease plan in the open market. By 99 yrs at most, we'll be able to decouple public housing price from open market. The gahment had successfully phase out pension scheme and introduce CPF scheme to civil servant this way..

[Happily1986]

Basically HDB is like COE, it's all about supply and demand. If HDB can constantly supply HDB for example 5rm at 200k, i don't see why ppl would want to buy resale 400k for it.

The problem now is supply cannot meet demand, even worst is they HDB peg their new HDB price to resale value. This itself create a vicious cycle.

 

- resale value raise due to high demand.

- new HDB price raise because it is peg to resale value.

 

It's a fundamental policy failure, the problem can never be solved without removing "New HDB price peg to resale" & increase supply issue.

 

Yes, the problem is that HDB has shifted away from a cost-based pricing approach to a market-based pricing approach.

 

 

How public can public housing be if the fundamental practice of the builder is now commercial in nature?

[Happily1986]

If people buy public housing for the sole purpose of having a roof over their head and NOT FOR PROFIT and INVESTMENT, the impact is not that much. Wanting public housing to appreciate sharply does not benefit much to current owner unless they don't need to buy another property in singapore, but greatly put a burden to the next generation.

 

Agree on this point. People who should be alarmed and concerned should be the first time house owners. It is highly likely that an astronomical purchase price will see the buyers vainly trying to pay off their housing loan even till their 50s or 60s if this trend continues unabated.

 

I am not too pleased at HDB for failing to institute market cooling measures.

 

But then again, we are now essentially seeing a conflict of interest. The organisation that has the ability to induce cooling of the public housing market is the same organisation that stands to benefit from a heating market.

 

Well this is nothing surprising for a country that places the EC under the PMO rather than the AG.

[Vextan]

lets summarise this thread at this point.

 

so the majority laments about the rise in hdb price, both new and resale. and so you want the following :

 

1. new flats price to be capped at cost price, for instance, $50k or so, for say, a five room flat.

2. resale price to be stable , preferable stagnant, and so if you buy at say $50k, ten years later, twenty perhaps, it remains at $50k.

 

the reason ? so that new flats remain affordable for new buyers, like those young couples getting their first matrimonal flat.

 

i tell you, if the above policy is being implememented, i guarantee you that there will be one thousand and one complains and criticism of the policy, and people will start wishing the other way, e.g. why they have their own house but cannot sell at market rate for a profit since it is a free market etc etc.

 

every policy has its pros and cons, and so you can always criticise it in some way or other since there is no perfect one. so the best approach is to take the next best one after weighing in all the factors. so before you start criticising things and suggesting your own set of fantastic perfect solution, think of the big picture, and from all angles. and you will realise the current system is not all that bad.

 

if it is really so bad as so many of you blast it, then why is it that so many of us here have a roof over our top , a house we can be proud of, a stable job, a car, social security, and a scoeity system that works ?

 

be rationale.

 

 

 

[Ben5266]

When the private property is priced beyond the affordability of the PRs, they turn to resale HDB.

So to control the resale HDB price, is to start controlling the private property price first.

Singapore is not alone facing the bubble of ever escalating property price. HK, Taiwan, China are all facing the same problem.

It is indeed difficult to solve this problem.

[Blackwind]

lets summarise this thread at this point.

 

so the majority laments about the rise in hdb price, both new and resale. and so you want the following :

 

1. new flats price to be capped at cost price, for instance, $50k or so, for say, a five room flat.

2. resale price to be stable , preferable stagnant, and so if you buy at say $50k, ten years later, twenty perhaps, it remains at $50k.

 

the reason ? so that new flats remain affordable for new buyers, like those young couples getting their first matrimonal flat.

 

i tell you, if the above policy is being implememented, i guarantee you that there will be one thousand and one complains and criticism of the policy, and people will start wishing the other way, e.g. why they have their own house but cannot sell at market rate for a profit since it is a free market etc etc.

 

every policy has its pros and cons, and so you can always criticise it in some way or other since there is no perfect one. so the best approach is to take the next best one after weighing in all the factors. so before you start criticising things and suggesting your own set of fantastic perfect solution, think of the big picture, and from all angles. and you will realise the current system is not all that bad.

 

if it is really so bad as so many of you blast it, then why is it that so many of us here have a roof over our top , a house we can be proud of, a stable job, a car, social security, and a scoeity system that works ?

 

be rationale.

 

 

i guess the problem is that ppl feel that this system benefits the prs more than singaporeans..... that is all there is to it. singaporeans expect to have more benefits as they feel that singapore is their homeland.

 

this system will also benefit quitters like me.... thats why i used the word "they"

 

in a nutshell in this system loyalty doesnt seem to be paying.... instead quitting looks more attractive

 

so what do you think? is this system fair for loyal singaoreans who see only singapore as their homeland but are only earning enough to buy one house?

 

my solution is simple.... no need any drastic changes.... the 30k/40k grant given by the govt is too outdated... it should be pegged to the rising cost of flats.... so by now we should be getting like 70k/80k grant?

 

 

 

 

[Vios484]

The notion of wealth creation through inflated public housing prices is against the principle of affordable public housing.

While it good for those that had vested property that had inflated, this continual inflation will affected more generations to come where housing is the biggest liability and it take a whole lifetime to pay off.

I agreed on the fact that new flat should only be offered to citizens only.

I'm against the fact new flats prices should be closely tied to the resale flats/private housing...this by self is already speculative.

Nobody like to lose money on their property and inflating it beyond affordability in a unsubstainable model is not wealth creation.

 

[Vextan]

i guess the problem is that ppl feel that this system benefits the prs more than singaporeans..... that is all there is to it. singaporeans expect to have more benefits as they feel that singapore is their homeland.

 

this system will also benefit quitters like me.... thats why i used the word "they"

 

in a nutshell in this system loyalty doesnt seem to be paying.... instead quitting looks more attractive

 

so what do you think? is this system fair for loyal singaoreans who see only singapore as their homeland but are only earning enough to buy one house?

 

my solution is simple.... no need any drastic changes.... the 30k/40k grant given by the govt is too outdated... it should be pegged to the rising cost of flats.... so by now we should be getting like 70k/80k grant?

70l/80k where got enough ? the grant for singaporeans should be at least 200k, and so buyers of new flat only need pay a nominal fee. better still, give new flats to singaporeans for free, and so this benefits only its citizen, and deprive foreigners of all else. next, give citizens free medical, free transport, sell car at original import price without tax and coe.

 

this will make everyone happy. or no ? or maybe some people will still be unhappy of a populist gahment, one which takes short term populist approach ? is the best gahment that everyone wish for ?

 

although i am 'jealous', if i aptly use the word, of people who earns a few million dollars salary a year, but there is indeed a stark difference between them and those who earns $2k and sounds as if they have the easy perfect solution like the one above.

[Blackwind]

70l/80k where got enough ? the grant for singaporeans should be at least 200k, and so buyers of new flat only need pay a nominal fee. better still, give new flats to singaporeans for free, and so this benefits only its citizen, and deprive foreigners of all else. next, give citizens free medical, free transport, sell car at original import price without tax and coe.

 

this will make everyone happy. or no ? or maybe some people will still be unhappy of a populist gahment, one which takes short term populist approach ? is the best gahment that everyone wish for ?

 

although i am 'jealous', if i aptly use the word, of people who earns a few million dollars salary a year, but there is indeed a stark difference between them and those who earns $2k and sounds as if they have the easy perfect solution like the one above.

 

err.... im not asking for 200k grant or free medical/transport

 

just 70k/80k grant around the whereabouts so that this grant will actually be a significant help like it used to be when it was first implemented

 

if you have more than one house ofcourse it will be very hard for you to understand all these stuff

[Wind30]

The notion of wealth creation through inflated public housing prices is against the principle of affordable public housing.

While it good for those that had vested property that had inflated, this continual inflation will affected more generations to come where housing is the biggest liability and it take a whole lifetime to pay off.

I agreed on the fact that new flat should only be offered to citizens only.

I'm against the fact new flats prices should be closely tied to the resale flats/private housing...this by self is already speculative.

Nobody like to lose money on their property and inflating it beyond affordability in a unsubstainable model is not wealth creation.

 

 

are you serious??????? singaporeans are sooo ungrateful.

 

tell that to the 100001 families out there who has bought HDB in the past 25 years. What is this bull about affordable public housing? If HDB has gone this way like HK did years ago, you know what will be the current state of public housing? you cannot have the best of both worlds. Are you sure the majority of singaporeans will want to forgo the wealth creation for cheap pubic housing? you cannot have BOTH you know. The current problem is caused because HDB has chosen the market pricing approach. So which is better.

 

1) now your HDB is worth $50k. new flats are worth $50k. private housing is cheaper too worth around $200k, same price as malaysia....

2) now your HDB is worth $300k. New flats are worth $250k. Private housing is $600k triple the prices of malaysia....

 

And how is it supposed to work? Do you expect private housing, commercial property to be fixed price too? Of course not right? The land sales to the private and commercial developers will be priced accordingly. The biggest component of cost is the land sale price. If you sell the land at $1000 psf to private developers, how are you going to price the LAND to HDB? At the same cost? That will make HDB expensive. At $1/psf? That will screw up the property market. nobody will want to come to invest in singapore.

 

I think the MOST IMPT thing is not how much HDB is selling the flats but rather WHERE ALL THE MONEY has gone to.

 

 

HDB built soooo little flats in 08/09 and YET they RAN into $2 billion deficit. Where has all the money from land sale gone to? How is HDB being run? Are they spending all their money into building snazzy office towers?

[Wind30]

err.... im not asking for 200k grant or free medical/transport

 

just 70k/80k grant around the whereabouts so that this grant will actually be a significant help like it used to be when it was first implemented

 

if you have more than one house ofcourse it will be very hard for you to understand all these stuff

 

yup that will just solve the symptoms. and you cannot happy happy double the grant. Imagine all the complains that will shoot out from people who just bought HDB and missed out on the extra 40k grant.

 

I think the better way is still to bring down the resale prices. I am not asking that PRs have the same benefit as citizens. They will pay EXTRA, without subsidy, compared to citizens. But I can see now that such a solution will be political suicide to anyone who suggest it.

[Blackwind]

yup that will just solve the symptoms. and you cannot happy happy double the grant. Imagine all the complains that will shoot out from people who just bought HDB and missed out on the extra 40k grant.

 

I think the better way is still to bring down the resale prices. I am not asking that PRs have the same benefit as citizens. They will pay EXTRA, without subsidy, compared to citizens. But I can see now that such a solution will be political suicide to anyone who suggest it.

 

 

not happy happy double lah.... progressively like gst

 

pay extra.... why suicide leh? another new form of revenue for govt... they sure want hahahahaha

[Perrier]

The notion of wealth creation through inflated public housing prices is against the principle of affordable public housing.

While it good for those that had vested property that had inflated, this continual inflation will affected more generations to come where housing is the biggest liability and it take a whole lifetime to pay off.

I agreed on the fact that new flat should only be offered to citizens only.

I'm against the fact new flats prices should be closely tied to the resale flats/private housing...this by self is already speculative.

Nobody like to lose money on their property and inflating it beyond affordability in a unsustainable model is not wealth creation.

 

I totally agree with your views.

 

Today's generation will have little CPF for retirement when their reach 55. Please do remember that our pay will be suppressed as long as it is possible by your companies.

 

Afterall, the primary aim of public housing is to provide affordable flat for the masses.

 

If they ever dare to build those non-fanciful, practical flats that my parents bought 20 years ago at a much cheaper price, I am confident it will be much over-subscribed that the current batches.

[Bystander50]

I have a suggestion about HDB prices. What do you guys think?

 

Just let PRs buy new HDB flats from HDB without or much less subsidies.

 

The main problem with the current HDB fiasco is that HDB thinks that the BTO is a good system that can react to demand easily and adjust supply accordingly. However they let out the millions of PRs who also need to buy HDB. This demand is not accounted for by HDB and it just spill over to resale and pushing up the retail prices of HDB. The resale supply is kind of fixed and the only way to increase resale supply is by pushing up the prices so you entice owners to sell their HDB. This is very bad as HDB prices will just go up and up.

 

The day the HDB allows PRs to buy new flats, I think the HDB prices will stabilize. This solves the problem and yet allow HDB flat prices to be market priced and not artificially controlled. We still have a willing buyer willing seller market but the main difference is that the supply is much more responsive to demand changes, not just citizen but also PRs. Artificially controlling the HDB prices will have a lot of problems in creating different classes of citizens, etc.

 

The campaign had already started. They're already starting to convert these PRs to new citizens by dangling healthcare subsidies and enrolment chances to primary schools.