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To SU or to Weber? That is the question.

Chenoire

By Chenoire,
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Chenoire

Chenoire

Neutral Newbie

Hi bros,

 

Can any of the seniors enlighten me as to which is a better setup for a 2E engine with 4-4-1 extractor but restrictive exhaust (ie quiet).

 

Car used for daily runabout and will probably never be used for track. Fuel economy is big consideration given the oil prices are rising much much faster than my salary. [bigcry][bigcry]

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Niltrams

Niltrams

3rd Gear

There is a very good article within the Starlet forums, just do a search, for more information on these 2 carbs.

 

4-4-1 extractor?? This could mean a 4-1 extractor, or 4-2-1 extractor. Which is yours ?

 

I've owned both carburetors before, previously on 2E with SU, now on 3E with Weber. I can simplify my experience with these two carburetors for you.

 

2E - SU ---> Carburetor is almost maintenance free, more relaxed and controllable throttle response, fuel economy average (350-380 km per tank) but definitely poorer than a stock 2E carb. Powerful enough to discern a difference from a stock carb.

 

3E - Weber ---> Highly recommended to tune to your car setup, inclusive of whether your engine is High Compression, extractor/exhaust setup, need the correct jettings, throttle response is fierce and snappy (depending on your tuner) thus you must learn to control your throttle well, varied fuel economy (I had 320-350 km per tank, bro So_Nice can hit 400 km per tank, due to different jettings and setup). Maintenance higher than a SU carb but not a monstrous task as believed. You also need to find a suitable manifold.

 

Power of course Weber can provide more than a SU carb, but it is rather irrelevant because my Weber is on 3E, so it isn't fair to compare to a SU on 2E. However, I have tried a 3E with SU carb and it doesn't hit the revs as fast as my Weber. 2E is recommended by Saber to be paired with a SU.

 

However, as you are using this car for your daily runabout and fuel economy is a big issue to you, I recommend you stick to the stock 2E carb and only change unless your carb is spoilt. Stock still gives the best FC.

 

Alternatively, you can EFI it.... [idea]

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Kyojin

Kyojin

1st Gear

i agree largely with Nitrams.

 

but since you already have a weber, don't fix it. if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

anyway, nice meeting you. nice ride [thumbsup]

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Ididbobe

Ididbobe

Neutral Newbie

Bros, whilst we are on this topic, your opinion on the below HYPOTHETICAL scenario:-

 

1. Assuming a base 3E engine;

 

Without taking into account or factoring FC (ie. not an issue), what option would be the most optimal in terms of i. low end torque, ii. top speed, iii. maintenance hassle and iv. cost (including ease of procurement).

 

A. Twin Webber;

B. Supercharger;

C. Turbo;

D. Wholesale switch to EFI

 

(I am assuming that B and C are options from what other have told me) ;)

 

Tks!

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Kyojin

Kyojin

1st Gear

Bros, whilst we are on this topic, your opinion on the below HYPOTHETICAL scenario:-

 

1. Assuming a base 3E engine;

 

Without taking into account or factoring FC (ie. not an issue), what option would be the most optimal in terms of i. low end torque, ii. top speed, iii. maintenance hassle and iv. cost (including ease of procurement).

 

A. Twin Webber;

B. Supercharger;

C. Turbo;

D. Wholesale switch to EFI

 

(I am assuming that B and C are options from what other have told me) ;)

 

Tks!

 

Carb + turbo is not impossible and not unheard of (in other cars), but it's quite dangerous for a few reasons:

1. fire hazard

2. you can't tune effectively without EFI

 

a slightly safer option is supercharger, but still lacks the EFI tuning.

 

you can tune it to be on the rich/safe side though.

 

twin webber - you need 2x DCOE which is side-draught. it's been done before, but you need to do some work to shoehorn the thing between the firewall and engine.

 

as such, 4E is probably the most effective way to go if you want power. direct swap, no messing around with jettings, no body modifications and relatively cheap.

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Niltrams

Niltrams

3rd Gear

as such, 4E is probably the most effective way to go if you want power. direct swap, no messing around with jettings, no body modifications and relatively cheap.

 

and highly illegal . . . =)

 

Twin Weber is highly difficult to tune, the killer FC is not worth the effort in my opinion.

 

I shall have no comments on FI-ing a carb car cos I know nuts.

 

The best bet is either overhaul with high compression and Weber-ize your 3E, give it high camshafts for revving till 9000 rpm, ignore the killer FC and enjoy the monstrous beast you've created, or wholesale change to EFI. Either way it will cost you more or less the same, unless you can find a buyer for your 3E setup to offset ur EFI conversion/journey [inlove].

 

 

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Ididbobe

Ididbobe

Neutral Newbie

and highly illegal . . . =)

 

Twin Weber is highly difficult to tune, the killer FC is not worth the effort in my opinion.

 

I shall have no comments on FI-ing a carb car cos I know nuts.

 

The best bet is either overhaul with high compression and Weber-ize your 3E, give it high camshafts for revving till 9000 rpm, ignore the killer FC and enjoy the monstrous beast you've created, or wholesale change to EFI. Either way it will cost you more or less the same, unless you can find a buyer for your 3E setup to offset ur EFI conversion/journey [inlove].

 

Thanks Guys for your erudition! Much enlightened now :) Hmm...the Weber route and camshaft route seems clearer now....anyone knows if Saber can make those mods or any recommendation? Still gotta procure a web, maybe can check with the Fiat guy frm US! :)

 

Alternatively, Black Accent it may be time for you to change your engine bro! giving so much trouble :) PM me yeah.

 

Chenoire, sorry to hijack your thread..hope the topic is still pretty much in line with your original query :)

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Chenoire

Chenoire

Neutral Newbie
  • Author

Thanks Guys for your erudition! Much enlightened now :) Hmm...the Weber route and camshaft route seems clearer now....anyone knows if Saber can make those mods or any recommendation? Still gotta procure a web, maybe can check with the Fiat guy frm US! :)

 

Alternatively, Black Accent it may be time for you to change your engine bro! giving so much trouble :) PM me yeah.

 

Chenoire, sorry to hijack your thread..hope the topic is still pretty much in line with your original query :)

 

 

No worries Damian. Learning something with every post. If you're deciding to Weberise your 3E, that may work out well for both of us, cos I'm looking to SU my 2E. As for the high camshaft, depending on how high and what duration you choose, note that it makes smooth idling a bit more problematic. Had a half race camshaft on my previous Mini. Idling was crap, but above 2500rpm... Whoa...

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Kyojin

Kyojin

1st Gear

high cam shafts will make it less streetable. idle will be a bit weird (hunting). but u do get power out of it.

 

the 3E route with webber and high cams has been done by quite a few people before to good effect. your LSI and ESIs will be in for a shock...

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Ididbobe

Ididbobe

Neutral Newbie

Good stuff...all of this is of course hypothetical....long way to go before i can even think of doing such things with my lowly stock engine [grin]

 

@ Chenoire, dude if you are looking for a SU, I believe Guantanamera has 2 for sale. They are with Saber now if I am not wrong!

 

@ Kyojin, hmm the weird idling is quite troubling. I hope it doesn't mean hving to keep playing with the clutch and rev alot when stationary or at low speeds?

 

Woohoo...can't wait for the reactions from the ESI bros hahahaha... [sly]

 

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Chenoire

Chenoire

Neutral Newbie
  • Author

Good stuff...all of this is of course hypothetical....long way to go before i can even think of doing such things with my lowly stock engine [grin]

 

@ Chenoire, dude if you are looking for a SU, I believe Guantanamera has 2 for sale. They are with Saber now if I am not wrong!

 

@ Kyojin, hmm the weird idling is quite troubling. I hope it doesn't mean hving to keep playing with the clutch and rev alot when stationary or at low speeds?

 

Woohoo...can't wait for the reactions from the ESI bros hahahaha... [sly]

 

 

Already have Ghaz's SU. Asfor the weird idling, just up the idling speed. That will smoothen it out. But you better have shares in petrochemical companies, cos it'll burn a hole in your pocket with the poor FC.

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Niltrams

Niltrams

3rd Gear

U can contact Uzi if you are really interested in going the high cam way.. its really not so simple as a drop-in solution (EFI). There's actually a lot more preparation to do to the 3E engine block before you can fit the high camshafts in. Also, your weber also need high cam jettings which i believe is hard to find now.

 

3E-weber-high cam ---> more TP/ROV friendly

 

4E-FTE ----> super TP/ROV unfriendly

 

Weigh the pros and cons before really committing to it. If not, your current setup is also powerful and smooth enough for everyday driving and abit of sprints also.

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Ididbobe

Ididbobe

Neutral Newbie

Good info here guys. BTW, any preference for Webers DCOE, DCNF or IDF? also is 40 the standard or biggest for the Starlet considering the walls etc?

 

I saw this sweet deal on ebay, chk it out:-

 

Ebay Weber

 

Whaddya think?

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