AWARE saga-very ironical

[Gnoikj]

This thought just jumped into my mind...with about 3000 people huddled together in Suntec, what are the odds of anyone of them carrying the damn swine flu virus and passing it around??!!!

 

 

[Tkseah]

Wait wait! Its not over yet...the nex exco doesn't want to resign!

 

kanna voted out can dun wanna resign meh? so thick skin ah..

[Kusje]

kanna voted out can dun wanna resign meh? so thick skin ah..

 

It wasn't a "vote out". Its a vote of no confidence which typically means they either resign or schedule for elections.

[Nlatio]

It wasn't a "vote out". Its a vote of no confidence which typically means they either resign or schedule for elections.

 

If kena vote of no confidence and still die die dont want to leave, then win liao lor.... no need to say liao lor... no need any voting or meeting or arguement..... what the fark happen they wil still stay put... then all this EGM and what not is just for show.... waste so much time for fark.... just tell anyone who oppose to fark off.... you happy you join, not happy join another association lor.... NB..... what kind of fark association is that.... AWARE= All Women Are Really Eng??....

[Gnoikj]

hoho...new guard step down...Dana Lam is elected president...

[Silver_blade]

kanna voted out can dun wanna resign meh? so thick skin ah..

Believe they will resign and allow the old guard to be re-elected into power. Not bad for AWARE...from only over 100 turned up for the last election to over 3000.....a big improvement.

 

Actually this AWARE saga proved to be rather interesting for me (at least at the beginning)....I shouldn't really take things for granted. I should really be more careful in whatever the school is teaching our kids.

 

Anyway, just glad that it is almost over. Some peace for me...instead of keep getting calls from friends asking to get my wife to help vote the NG out, etc...

Edited May 2, 2009 by Silver_blade

[Gnoikj]

those schools which got AWARE to run the workshop are now under the spotlight...MOE has to make a decision on whether to allow the schools to continue running such workshops....

[Myturbo]

what kind of fark association is that.... AWARE= All Women Are Really Eng??...

 

AWARE = 3000 Pussy cats to serve Tom Cat la

Haha what a drama

 

[Stickman]

this was as it turns out a "high class" cat fight... lame.

[Silver_blade]

I believe if the complaint don't get louder and the press don't keep up with it (which I believe they would rather lay the matter to rest)...and MOE should maintain the status quo.....allowing the school to decide. Why shot your own foot?

 

Anyway I find this AWARE episode to be rather silly...being turned into a religion vs homosexuality showdown. It just show how 'immature' and easily distracted, our general population are.

Edited May 2, 2009 by Silver_blade

[Blackyv]

seriously, what's the big deal and huha about this aware stuff huh???.... to me, just a cat fight which doesn't really concern most of us right?... so, why put so much attention into it and wonder why suddenly so many keypoh "new" member who has so much time to waste???.. ... ......

[Silver_blade]

Guess it was an unbalanced press reports, the lack of PR and clarification of of the NG, NG's inability to arrest the 'problem' by it's neck fast...turning this into almost singularly a religion vs homosexuality, anti-gay vs pro-gay, etc...

 

That made a various groups feel that they have to do something to defend their 'rights' and push their cause further...

Edited May 2, 2009 by Silver_blade

[Donut]

i'm so glad that joise is out.

 

referring to my previous posts, i never like her and her team

 

and bringing church into picture.. this is very bad, esp in SG where religion is very sensitive.

 

even the senior pastor got to make a public apology for blindly following that stupid woman.

 

for those MCFers who show support for her, better shut up now.

 

Worst is now she got to answer for that $90,000 spend within one month!!! i tell u, law suits will follow. and she will definitely lose her stupid DBS job. i can assure you this.

 

No boss will want bad publicity on his staff mis-using $$, and it is made worse that she's in DBS bank, a financial institution where it's supposed to manage $$ in proper ways.

 

i already said in my previous posts that she will definitely get sacked from DBS. Just mark my words.

 

some MCFers asked will get sacked over a hobby? this is NOT a hobby!!! She's so bloody greedy for power and attention.

 

She tried to turn AWARE into a christian group. This is a very BAD move in SG. I can already see what she was trying to do this right from the beginning.

 

I'm an Anglican and i dun even support what she's doing, because in God's eye, this is so wrong.....

 

You NEVER politicize religion.

 

So she deserves this. I show no sympathy to her.

[Elfenstar]

>> Sorry, I saw your reply after I clicked on add reply. Didn't have time to write back till now. Dental appointment, EGM, birthday party, and now home. I may have to take back the non-discussion clause, but I'll keep things more tame Should be easier now as you should now know that this is purely from a debating standpoint.

 

 

 

RC and Orthodoxy are separately governed churches. The word catholic just mean universal, so it can be used in the general sense. Your earlier statement on catholic and orthodoxy is badly worded, at the least misleading. That has been my earlier stand too.

 

>> Look at your earlier response. It is fairly clear you were using the RC definition of catholic church. You happily blasted me for saying that there isn't one catholic church by saying there are only the eastern orthodox and RC church both considered as one with the pope as head. Regardless of badly worded or not, I was factually correct and you were not. There is more than one catholic church even if you consider the eastern and western (aka roman) catholic church as a single entity.

 

 

 

It takes us a few exchanges before you finally admit your wrong, and yet you are trying to wriggle. This just show you know little but claim alot.

 

>> Wrong for telling you about the non-roman catholic cannonised bible I read??? Granted the "few" was misleading since I read one and was told of others, and simply stating that "there are a few" instead of verifying the rest first.

 

 

 

This is becoming a joke. Where does the word hypothesis appear in the wiki link? The only time is quoted here

"Martin Kaehler protested, arguing that the true Christ is the one preached by the whole Bible, not a historical hypothesis."

If you ever read intently, this following synopsis can be picked up easily.

"Though the reconstructions vary, they generally include these basic points: Jesus was a Jewish teacher[2] who attracted a small following of Galileans and, after a period of preaching, was crucified by the Romans in Iudaea Province during the governorship of Pontius Pilate.[3] The historical Jesus was a Galilean Jew living in a time of messianic and apocalyptic expectations. "

 

There's no doubt that Jesus the person exists, what's in scholarly doubt is the events surrounding hima s recorded in scriptures. BUT you deny the existence of the man itself.

 

>> How can you say that there is no doubt when the verification of the claims of about the existence of Jesus, when the basis for it was the "critical analysis of gospel texts (i.e. the very documents that made the claim) as the primary source for his biography, and non-biblical sources for the historical and cultural context in which he lived". Thus the historical Jesus is based on the assumption that what the bible said is true, which would make it a hypothesis, and not a fact. Although in all likelyhood there would have been someone similar to a historical Jesus as if you knew of the cultural, social and political context of the time, you would know that there would have been many that fit the synopsis you quoted.

 

 

 

 

Wrong again. There is not nothing about him as you like to loudly claim. Also as i have mentioned he posted no political threat to Rome. Nor political dissent. When he was accused to be crucified (and he was on the same day), it was the first time Pilate had ever heard and met him! And in the end they only crucified him, and with none of his followers together. What's a politician without follower huh. So pray tell how important a political dissent he was to to Romans?!

 

>> Ok if there is not nothing about him, can you please point me to some other reference to him that is not from religious text (don't worry, I won't ask you when you read it, or which passage it was from)??? Are you so sure that if he truly existed he would not have been that important then? Nevermind the Roman historians then too, how about my question on why there is nothing about him from the Jewish side either then? He was obviously important enough for them to crucify him, and what about the crucification records while you're at it.

 

 

 

Let's use a website that attacks the christian point to counter your own anti-biblical point:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

"Virtually all other claims of Jesus come from sources outside of Christian writings. Devastating to the claims of Christians, however, comes from the fact that all of these accounts come from authors who lived after the alleged life of Jesus. Since they did not live during the time of the hypothetical Jesus, none of their accounts serve as eyewitness evidence. " And the text goes on the list a few historians.

 

Again existence is not in denial. The exact circumstances surrounding Jesus are the points of contention.

 

>> What claims are they talking about. I have never come across any of them.

 

 

 

I said one with little knowledge but with large ego or obstinateness is prime material for a bigot. Just a warning, not a conclusion. But since you see a link (which is not bad), let's see how you fit in

(1) knowing little claiming much eg, your damning claim on a few catholic bibles. Only after questioning you pointedly a few times before your admission of error

(2) An obstinateness in the face of details. See all the above,

I reserve my judgment.

 

>> A warning or an inference. If you had stated it in this way it would have been a warning, however the way you stated earlier was an inference. Oh and you missed out on the fundamental prejudice for someone to become a bigot (yet again). Please go find out more by going to libraries, talking to people from other christian groups, etc instead of just googling, and don't forget to show me some non-religions (or studies that refer to non-bible based) documents that have claimed about his existence. You might also want to have a look at what you said earlier and refer back to your "warning".

 

[Elfenstar]

Maybe, but they won. They managed to discredit AWARE and its sexual education programs. No schools will dare to engage AWARE to talk in their school in the near future. If that was truly the issue that the new guard had problems with, they achieved their aim.

 

Discredit aware, definately. Discredit the sexual education program, hardly. It's pretty much factual, and has highlighted how secular the program is. As for the schools not engaging AWARE, I guess then MOH has to take up the gauntlet on sexual education because it is important, and guess what their stand is

 

.... AWARE will probably turn into a pro-lesbian organization and further discredit itself with the mainstream population.

 

And you ASSUME that because of ????

[Elfenstar]

They don't just say certain things are neutral, they also tell the students that it is "normal". When you take a controversial issue and proclaim one stand to be normal, you are promoting it. Now this wouldn't be a problem if they had the consent of the parents but the parents didn't even know the contents of the program before it was made public due to the saga.

 

So thus this mean that when I say that it is normal that there will always be bigots who will be prejudiced against others that I am promoting bigotry???

 

It seemed obvious to me that parents who are not pro-homosexual will take offense with AWARE teaching their kids "bad stuff" just as Muslim parents would take offense if a christian teacher tried to convert their children. I do not expect schools to wander into religion except if it is a religious school. (methodist, catholic, muslim, etc.)

 

You mean people that are anti-homosexuals. I am not pro-homosexuals, I am pro-equality, and pro-choice (I am also pro-life as I feel that unborn children do not have a choice and no voice if their mothers want to abort them), and I see no problems with homosexuality - as long as nobody tries to force me to become one. And how was AWARE trying to "convert" people into turning into homosexuals?

 

My stand regarding this is simple:

 

1. The OG's program was insensitive to the children. They should not have attempted to enforce their views on morality on impressionable children for such a controversial issue.

2. The NG took control in accordance with the rules that were put in place by the OG so they should have no cause for complain.

3. The NG was correct in removing the center manager who was clearly allied to the OG. They were also correct in limiting access by the OG to the center since they are no longer part of the committee. To allow them access would imply that all common members should be granted access.

4. The staff are not part of the committee and since the NG has won in a legitimate election, they should respect it. Their allegiance should be to AWARE, not to the people that form the committee. (Just as civil servants allegiance and loyalties should be to the government in power and not a particular political party)

5. The OG has every right to call for a vote of no confidence as this is in line with the constitution of AWARE and because the NG was slow in presenting their positions and vision for AWARE. (Sadly, if they win, this could mean that AWARE might become a vehicle for lesbianism since they would have won on the back of the lesbian vote)

 

1) They were not pushing any morality issues. They were stating scientific fact and left out morality, religion, etc

2) I don't think that is the issue. I believe the issue was with the dirty tactics used, but it was the OG's fault for not amending the constitution. It's not as if there were no prior examples overseas from COOS's affilliates.

3) Insubordination for correcting them factually??? Thats a bit of a stretch don't you think??? Oh and it is right to allow members who were on their camp in and not members who wanted to vote them out???

4) The NG alientated everyone who was not part of their "clique" and were pushing their own moral values. It wasn't the staffs fault.

5) What the NG did between the time they took power and the start of the EGM already showed their lack of ability anyway. AND were you even there to be able to say that it was lesbians that voted the OG back in, or are you just ASSUMING (Just like how you are ASSUMING that it will become a vehicle to convert people into homosexuals).

Edited May 2, 2009 by Elfenstar

[Silver_blade]

......even the senior pastor got to make a public apology for blindly following that stupid woman.

 

......She tried to turn AWARE into a christian group. This is a very BAD move in SG. I can already see what she was trying to do this right from the beginning...

 

You NEVER politicize religion....

To be fair to her...from the beginning to the end...neither she nor her team never quite publicly make any decision indicating they are going to bring religion into the picture or turning AWARE into a christian group. It was the media and some groups that kept focusing on many of the new exco members are from the same church and that they are anti-gay, etc.... Most of us will never know if that was indeed their intention (cos they never the time to really do anything constructive for the organisation.)

 

What I feel that gave most people the impression that their motive was indeed the above mentioned...was their lack of PR....clarifying their intention, their vision, etc for AWARE in a clear, definite term soon after they got into power. They only did so (sort off) just a few days ago in the ST forum...which I feel was already too late and inadequate (cos the date showdown has already been set).

 

The pastor COOS also need to learn about PR and be more aware of the situation. I feel he was too 'oblivious' to the 'sentiment' of the OG's supporters/some members of the public, to say such things to the congregation at such time,...knowing fully that his every word will be scrutinized and may be used against him, the church, etc...

 

As for what DBS going to do next and about the money they spent, etc...they will have to bear the consequences which I hope they will take it positively. It was after all their choice.

 

I guess there are lessons to be learned from all camps.

 

For the OG:

- Don't be too complacent thinking they will surely win without much opposition just like they did before this event. Shouldn't it sound any alarm when there was an influx of new members within such a short time?

 

- Elected president and members should have stayed on instead of quitting. At least try to work together with some of the new exco members before deciding what to do next.

 

 

For the NG:

- Look and plan ahead....don't just plan to get into power. Think also what to do after they have got into power and what to do to calm the situation and be prepared to deal with all the queries/opposition.

 

- Better PR. Not talking is not going to help.

 

- Smile and stay calm...looking stressed, pull a long face, etc...is not helping either (tho that maybe what the some sector of the press want to portray).

 

- Not responding to the accusations fast and well....is as good as admitting the claims are true.

 

 

For COOG:

 

- Don't just say 'no comment'.....it is like the above 'is good as admitting the claims are true'.

 

 

 

Oh well...finally the episode is as good as over. [thumbsup]

 

 

[Milo]

im very happy with the outcome. out of selfishness, the new guards made AWARE lose its purpose.from josie's action, it has clearly shown her integrity n management. this organisation is supposed to bring equality n harmony into races n sexes. i wonder what makes her having such a high position in dbs?? i hope the new team would take legal action towards them for the large amt of money misused.

 

let's not argue about the religion. shall we cheer for the new team n give them a moral support? [flowerface]