AWARE saga-very ironical

[Stary]

I think this whole saga wouldn't have happened if the constitution says that someone must be a member for a certain amount of time before allow to vote.

 

It is strange that they don't have this rule.

 

What if a group of ah lian go vote and win the exco places?

 

 

[Gnoikj]

Then they will invite ah bengs in to become full fledge members and party everyday! AWARE become happening....

[Falc]

I think this whole saga wouldn't have happened if the constitution says that someone must be a member for a certain amount of time before allow to vote.

 

It is strange that they don't have this rule.

 

What if a group of ah lian go vote and win the exco places?

 

Could it be because there were so few members to start with, and nobody will be eyeing on them since they were supposed to be anti -anti anything, so they thought sure no adversary one.

 

Anyway Ah lian will be more interested to spend their time partying, not to answer press questions.

[Osiris]

Even with time, it is not foolproof, they just stay longer to take over.

What they should do is have membership with voting rights and those without or similar system.

e.g. Ord member 1 vote, Committee 10 votes

 

[Elfenstar]

I think this whole saga wouldn't have happened if the constitution says that someone must be a member for a certain amount of time before allow to vote.

 

It is strange that they don't have this rule.

 

What if a group of ah lian go vote and win the exco places?

 

I believe thats what the EGM is going to be about. Amending, and fine tuning the voting system.

 

[Elfenstar]

Could it be because there were so few members to start with, and nobody will be eyeing on them since they were supposed to be anti -anti anything, so they thought sure no adversary one.

 

Spot on, except they didn't think outsiders would try and take over. If it wasn't this particular fundamentalist group that did it, I doubt they would be so vocal, but then this is just an assumption on my part.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Elfenstar

[Elfenstar]

Ehh ... you still don't see they are two sides of the coin.

 

Who's to set the direction of change? The exco?

 

Heheh... AWARE isn't that forward thinking Their direction comes from what overseas feminist movements are trying to achieve or have acheived.

 

I know what you are trying to say, but I think you're basing it way too much on pre-conceived notions and assumptions about how certain people may work.

 

You've seen me here long enough. I'm sure you know I love to play the devils advocate

Edited April 27, 2009 by Elfenstar

[Elfenstar]

Let's be clear. I have been arguing from what's been reported, and i have stated all assumptions which i based the claim on so there is transparency.

 

You are trying to claim that just becoz you are more in the "know", hence what you claim has more weight. I can concede that but of course we all see things from colored eyes, you included.

 

But i do know someone who seems very close to the old aware, having been to their workshop as participants, and he's a guy! So akan datung for some insider info. hehe ...

 

Thats the problem I found with your arguments. You're basing it just on the reported so called faults rather than on what they are really doing and what they have done.

 

To me, what I feel is irrelavant in this case. It is the facts of what AWARE has done and my knowledge of how they have done it that makes me say what I do. I personally do not agree with everything that they say/do, however logically I see no fault. Just different viewpoints.

 

Do let us know your friends take on this whole matter. Maybe there's yet another viewpoint that none of us have thought of.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Elfenstar

[Falc]

I don't think my friend's viewpoint will be any different from yours as i think he's also pretty sympathetic to homo practices one. So getting facts, not opinions will be more important.

 

If one is to remove the homo and church issue from all these, this fiasco is nothing but 2 groups of women having different (petty) agendas for the organization. One side got caught with pants down (not prepared), losing big time, hence crying foul and planning counter-strike. Without this "spice", we won't be debating with such passion also.

[Locknload]

I believe thats what the EGM is going to be about. Amending, and fine tuning the voting system.

 

I'm sure many of us and some of them are members of Social / Golf Clubs....it would be good if the exco can take a leaf from the consitiution of the more established / older clubs as theor constitutions have been fine-tuned over the years to address the eligibility of exco / sub-c'ttee memberships.

[Elfenstar]

Btw, latest update from http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/04/breaki...-at-aware-eogm/

 

Staff sent out email asking members to vote at Aware EOGM

Monday, 27 April 2009

 

But church denies instigating Aware takeover

 

By Terence Lee and Deborah Choo

 

26 APRIL, 2009 –A CHURCH of our Saviour (COOS) staff sent out an email calling church members to vote at AWARE’s upcoming EOGM, the church spokesman confirmed yesterday.

 

For a while, it had been unclear whether the leaked email messages, readable in various forums, were authentic.

 

Speaking on the sidelines after Sunday’s 10.30am service, the church spokesman verified that only Shawn Tay and Linda Seah’s email messages are genuine. Both are staff of the church.

 

Mr Tay sent out an email on 17th April calling for church members to join AWARE and support the new Executive Committee members. He is from Choices Ministry, a department specialising in homosexual counseling.

 

In the email, Mr Tay called for “all responsible females to sign up for membership with AWARE immediately, and also to attend this all-important EGM so as to vote against changing the Constitution.”

 

As for Ms Seah, who is a zone pastor, she sent Senior Pastor Derek Hong an email on 16th April stating that “the number of members registered on Tuesday night is 13 out of 40 who turned up.” As of the time of this piece’s publication, the church has not been able to clarify what this means.

 

Both email messages were sent only after news of Aware’s takeover broke on The Straits Times.

 

It is also unclear if the rest of the leaked email are authentic.While admitting that their pastors were involved in garnering support for the new Executive Committee, the church spokesman denied allegations that they instigated the takeover of AWARE.

 

This is in line with an earlier claim made by the new Executive Committee at a press conference held at Raffles Town Club. They asserted that the church was not involved in the takeover.

 

“There is no church connection. The church is not at all involved in secular affairs,” they said.

 

The spokesman maintained that it was the church members’ prerogative to join AWARE, rather than a decision by the church staff’s.

 

Pastor Hong, who preached during the service, could not be approached directly by TOC for comment.

 

Pastor voices support for new Aware Exco

 

While COOS has denied involvement in the AWARE takeover, they are actively supportive of their church members getting involved in the EOGM to support the new Executive Committee.

 

Pastor Hong devoted most of his sermon on the issue of homosexuality, voicing support for the endeavours of the new Aware team. The service was attended by about 800 people.

 

Calling for solidarity, he implored the women in the church to “unite with the sisters and support them.” He also said that the new team’s actions are not “a crusade against the people,” but instead a move to ensure that the nation does not cross the line drawn by God.

 

He also spoke against the “neutral” portrayal of homosexuality taught by AWARE to schoolgirls. The Christian’s belief system, he argued, prevents them from accepting homosexuality as “neutral.” The Bible clearly teaches that it is wrong, and that is the position the church have to take.

 

“Christians have the responsibility to protect the young, the vulnerable, and the innocent, even though its not popular or politically correct, even though people may not understand or they may get angry with us,” he said.

 

The pastor, however, sees a silver lining in the controversies. Contrasting Singapore against countries that are heading towards liberalisation, he is glad the Aware team stood up for what the Bible deemed was right. He said: “We need to thank God that because section 377A still stands, we will not move in that direction.”

 

During the service, new Aware president Josie Lau and her husband Alan Chin were called on stage. While Mr Chin did speak to the congregation, it was not on the Aware controversy, but rather his claim that God has healed his sister of brain stem damage.

 

After his sharing, Pastor Hong then prayed for the couple, and beckoned the church to join him.

 

COOS against gay-bashing

 

Within his sermon, the pastor reiterated the church’s position on homosexuality, which can be found on the COOS website. Basing his position purely based on the Holy Bible, he said that it is not a matter of personal opinion as homosexuality is clearly a sin against God.

 

“It’s black-and-white,” he said, “It’s not because I don’t like somebody, but because the Bible says so.”

 

He then stated that there are other religions that are against homosexuality as well, including Islam and even Judaism. However, he finds it strange that “the homosexual community never attacks the Islamic people for having that stand.”

 

Wearing a bright green shirt with a patterned tie, the pastor gave no indication of being worn down by the controversy. In fact, he spoke passionately at certain points in the sermon, his voice booming through the speakers.

 

“God does not grade sins,” he said with conviction.

 

While homosexuality is clearly wrong, it is not the worst sin either, he said. People who are involved in homosexuality are no worse than people who lie. However, there is a tendency for the church to condemn homosexuality more than other wrongdoings.

 

Pastor Hong also vehemently denounced gay-bashing, noting that homosexuals are as deserving of equal rights to jobs, housing, education, health, and welfare as straight people are. Objecting to the use of homophobic expressions, he noted that many languages and dialects have derogatory terms for more effeminate men. He called such verbal abuse “evil.”

 

The preacher emphasised that Christians should not feel too smug about themselves either, because God loves homosexuals as well. Christians are not better than homosexuals in any way, he said, but are saved only by the grace of God.

 

COOS, he added, frequently gives financial aid to HIV patients, some of whom are homosexuals. So far, the church has given food supplements to 100 patients.

 

Gays can become straight

 

“Change is possible,” said the pastor, once again underlining a Biblical perspective. However, he also cited real-life examples and scientific research as further proof that homosexuals can turn straight. Some are found in his church, he claimed.

 

Nevertheless, he stopped short of proclaiming total transformation in these individuals. In fact, these people still struggle with homosexual thoughts, just that they no longer have sex with other men.

 

“…they have become more straight, if you like, just like all of us, we’re still a work in progress, we may not commit adultery but it doesn’t mean we don’t struggle with those thoughts,” he said.

 

Pastor Hong also refuted the idea that homosexuals are born the way they are, and he denied the existence of a “homosexual gene.” He draws on studies from NARTH, which he says is a secular, non-religious organisation that does scientific research on homosexuality.

 

Calling the nature argument “propaganda”, he maintained that developmental factors feature more in the development of homosexuality.

 

Caution towards militant gay activist groups

 

The pastor spent significant time speaking against what he calls “discrimination against people with pro-family values.”

 

Christians have often also been misunderstood in the media. They are labeled as anti-homosexuals when in fact they are simply against the practice. He called this labeling a “trap” by the “propaganda of the gay activist people.”

 

An example he cited of such discrimination was the recent Miss USA pageant. Pastor Hong showed a news clip on Fox News where front-runner Miss California spoke out against gay marriage when asked a question by judge Perez Hilton, a celebrity blogger who is openly gay.

 

Many believed her answer cost her the crown.

 

The clip concluded with Mr Hilton in another footage making insulting remarks about Miss California and shouting vulgarities. Pastor Hong called this “just the tip of the iceberg.”

 

Calling for a resistance against the agenda of certain gay activists, he cautioned that traditional values and lifestyles can be undermined.

 

He said: “They want to change the values and principles to what we deem to be normal to their own pattern of life. If you even dare to speak against it, you get disqualified, you get penalised, you get discriminated against.”

 

Church members voice support

 

COOS members which TOC spoke to after the service are supportive of the new AWARE team.

 

Mr Wong, a church member in his forties who does not attends cell group, said that the new Executive Committee should be given a chance to prove themselves. After all, they took over Aware legally.

 

Some church members have even joined Aware this year. Speaking anonymously, they insisted it was their own personal decision, and that no coercion was involved.

 

While their decision to join Aware was based on their convictions as a Christian, they pointed out that Christians are not the only ones resisting homosexuality.

 

“I mean if you’re a parent, and you learn about what they teach in school, won’t you be concerned?” said a lady.

 

Latest figures for Aware membership stands at more than 880. It is unclear how many church members have joined the organisation.

[Gnoikj]

Whoa!!! Showdown expected...

[Help1]

SG Govt issued stern warning to all parties involved in the AWARE to be "'Learn to live and let live'"......LOL.....how to....parties involved are all women, the nature of women is very petty, "heart chest narrow", vengeful, like to blow matter out of proportion....it should change to "Learn to bitch and let catfight"...now these bunch of aunties kenna F by the SG Govt, if things still dun settle down fast, i won't be surprise that SG Govt will step in further, and probably emperor LEE will issue orders liao

[Help1]

why can't the church goers just attend their sunday mass, confess any evil wrongdoings that were done over the week seek for forgiveness, pray and sing, then drive off to have lunch lah...why make so much trouble....go nothing better to do isit...then next sun come back again, repeat the cycle lah....wah liew choot so many patterns...can't wait for SG Govt to whip them and send them to HELL....LOL

[Help1]

i hope those christians out there to refrain yourself from preaching your thoughts and beliefs to the public, apparently this has been too much and is becoming very annoying and behave like a pest...want to transform to extremist isit

[Wintersonata]

why can't the church goers just attend their sunday mass, confess any evil wrongdoings that were done over the week seek for forgiveness, pray and sing, then drive off to have lunch lah...why make so much trouble....go nothing better to do isit...then next sun come back again, repeat the cycle lah....wah liew choot so many patterns...can't wait for SG Govt to whip them and send them to HELL....LOL

 

Long article, but overall good read... Based on their affiliation, they cannot be too passive...

 

From AWARE -> Choices -> Church Of Our Saviour -> DBS -> Focus on the Family -> Christian nationalism

http://dogemperor.newsvine.com/_news/2009/...ork-in-practice

[Sturtles]

i hope those christians out there to refrain yourself from preaching your thoughts and beliefs to the public, apparently this has been too much and is becoming very annoying and behave like a pest...want to transform to extremist isit

 

 

How can this be possible?

 

One man cannot serve 2 masters, and to Evangalise is to follow the Word of God.

 

As a faithful and true follower, there is no other way about it. To know this and not do it is..

[Spurman]

He then stated that there are other religions that are against homosexuality as well, including Islam and even Judaism. However, he finds it strange that