Engine sourcing, Choosing a engine from same model lineup?

[Elfenstar]

I have already considered all these. including the ecu, might just reflash or piggyback.

 

Chassis weight etc, power delivery and transmission etc.

 

Well who would in thier sane mind waste another year on a course he liked when he have a choice to go poly.

 

 

Not to mention im very weak in maths, but i go for regular tution and force myself to listen.Before i was a merry go round kiddo who didnt have a aspiration

 

I intend to make this clear once and for all

 

I am just using a car as a benchmark when i start my buisness, eg theories can be performed and what i can offer to the tuning community

 

So im welcome to entertain any backlash, as long as its constructive i'll take it in mind, but once it overstep the limit, i dont think i have a choice but to complain to moderators or engage in a war of words.

 

Well you didn't consider well enough. Here's a min list of what needs to be changed/modified (you do not have a choice)

1) Engine mounts (and prolly modifying the mounting points)

2) Transmission (or at least find someone who can fabricate a bellhousing to allow your current transmission to fit)

3) ECU

4)Entire wiring loom

5) Drive shaft

6) Coolant piping

 

You can forget about re-flashing or piggyback. You ECU does not even have the pins to control the two extra cylinders. This isnt as simple as swapping a B16 for a B18.

 

It can be done but its not going to be easy, and i doubt that there are many (if any) workshops here whose fabrications skills to do all of it. If you really want to do it, the best way would be to get a half-cut (which are not allowed to be brought in) and swap out all the parts.

[Twofouronenite]

Having passion is one thing, look at it this way, how much is a mechanic paid? imagine after ITE u r stilling having to save for the car mag? noe wat I mean?

If u can go for a dip go for one 1st. Try and see if there a part time auto course at ITE or work as part time in a car workshop?

[So_nice]

go get a cheap small car to play wif lah. kelisa, march k11, starlet, charade gtti or even swift gti. all these cars haf much better modibility then cefiro.

[Comnao]

kiddo

 

this kind of thing no one will discuss with you on a open platform like MCF.

you just dont know who is lurking behind that seemingly innocent nick and keyboard

 

i suggest you got blow some serious cash (if your daddy does give you some pocket money in the first place) in some reputable mod shop so that you will be recognized as a big fish .... when the timing is ripe, someone will definitely gladly fill you in on what needs to be done and how to do it tactfully.

 

so i suggest in the meantime, you go back to doing what you students have to do best - study and wait to grow up.

 

all of us uncles and aunties had already walked the impatient path of Youth and Recklessness.... there is no shortcut to growing up

Edited January 25, 2009 by Comnao

[Weichien]

you have passion!!!! and a great dreamer. it's good to have dreams, keep you alive.

[Astrid]

Errr... if I want the VQ35DE engine in a Nissan Cefiro, I'd then just go buy the 3.5L model sold by Tan Chong lor.

 

Why even bother with an engine (only) swap, cos it will never be the same car. There are other things that will be different.

 

Like that, I also can buy a 2.0FSI Golf and swap an Audi S3 engine in it.

Will that turn the Golf into an S3-equivalent?

 

No way.

 

It won't have the S3's Quattro to begin with!

 

Not to mention under-performing brakes, suspensions, transmission, cooling system / BTU specs for both fans, exhaust throughput, electricals ...... the list goes on ......

Edited January 25, 2009 by Astrid

[Turbonetics]

Errr... if I want the VQ35DE engine in a Nissan Cefiro, I'd then just go buy the 3.5L model sold by Tan Chong lor.

 

Why even bother with an engine (only) swap, cos it will never be the same car. There are other things that will be different.

 

Like that, I also can buy a 2.0FSI Golf and swap an Audi S3 engine in it.

Will that turn the Golf into an S3-equivalent?

 

No way.

 

It won't have the S3's Quattro to begin with!

 

Not to mention under-performing brakes, suspensions, transmission, cooling system / BTU specs for both fans, exhaust throughput, electricals ...... the list goes on ......

 

 

maybe got no money to buy the 350JM.

so fake one.

 

[Bulls_is_back]

But he is just talking a FF cefiro. I thought half cuts can include the engine and the drive train as well as the ecu and wiring harness. I think mechanically, the 350 vs 250 (230) vs 200 are probably identical cars. Just need to remember to get the stock shocks/springs/ARB from the 350. Considering the "magnitude" of a engine swap ... these are minor bits and pieces.

 

Having said that, economically, engine swap for cars in this (cefiro) category is not worth it, considering the price of a 250 vs 350 Teana is only like 18k(new). Plus for the 350 one gets loads more equipment and higher OMV to boot.

 

If one is talking about a normal (old) BMW to M heart transplant, that is another story.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Bulls_is_back

[Qr25vet]

charade GTTI and Swift GTI....parts damn hard to find...i tot u would wanna poison him buy starlet...my GTI find parts like wanna die liao...suprised to see more GTTI parts than GTI...maybe cos GTI owners keep breaking their cars

[Qr25vet]

most ppl wont go for the //M engine cos its way too expensive or hard to find...they would rather get a rebuilt engine by hi-op and stuff it in...which is more powerful than the S54 M3 engine and of course its looks the same as the stock one... .

Edited January 26, 2009 by Qr25vet

[Karebu]

hey.

 

really, tuning and stuff isn't as glamorous as you see in the movies with some cool computers reading data and wrenching some stuff. it's not like that of arcades either where you add things for better handling/power etc.

 

cool off and just focus on your studies first. take whichever's the best path for you wherever your point in life is at that very moment. someday when you are older you'll look back you may realize it may not be that wise after all.

 

 

 

you're at least 16 so you could perhaps work at auto shops in the hols and see how stuff are first if you are that 'gian'.

[Vtim]

My dream is also to open up a American Chopper style of bike shop...that will only happen after I won the 10mil TOTO in Feb09.

 

 

hey, me too, this idea also pop up when I first started to watch American Chopper, will try to sell the idea to my Harley buddies (I ex-Harley biker) and see if they would like to invest in it

[Jiayong]

I think the NUS course would be a better choice for you.

 

Look at their latest eco friendly car.

 

Such a car, if implanted with a SC K20 Honda Engine, we will have our very own local Ariel Atom.

 

Cheers bro. Aim for the NUS course and do up a car for your Final year project.

 

I have not been thru it but I think the ITE course teaches you more basic skills rather than the tuning and modifications that you are after. The NUS course teaches you the fundamentals I believe and thereafter, you are free to exercise your imagination.

 

I will be the first to book the atom from you. =)

[Failali]

Well you didn't consider well enough. Here's a min list of what needs to be changed/modified (you do not have a choice)

1) Engine mounts (and prolly modifying the mounting points)

2) Transmission (or at least find someone who can fabricate a bellhousing to allow your current transmission to fit)

3) ECU

4)Entire wiring loom

5) Drive shaft

6) Coolant piping

 

You can forget about re-flashing or piggyback. You ECU does not even have the pins to control the two extra cylinders. This isnt as simple as swapping a B16 for a B18.

 

It can be done but its not going to be easy, and i doubt that there are many (if any) workshops here whose fabrications skills to do all of it. If you really want to do it, the best way would be to get a half-cut (which are not allowed to be brought in) and swap out all the parts.

 

Pardon me for asking, but i thought the VQ23DE and VQ35DE are both 6 cylinders mounted in a V shape,thus the V6. But unless i am swapping for a engine that has extra cylinders or lesser cylinders,this problem is does not exist?

 

Unless you mean that the pins cannot cope with the increased power and re-wiring.

 

I may not be correct, but since the J31 comes standard with 4-AT and CVT for all lineups(200JK,230JM,350JM) this would not be a problem?And the chassis size is virtually the same for all cefiros.Unless you mean that the 4-AT might not cope with the increased horsepower and torque,but since the 350JM comes with the same 4-AT, i might wish to post this query?

 

[Failali]

I think the NUS course would be a better choice for you.

 

Look at their latest eco friendly car.

 

Such a car, if implanted with a SC K20 Honda Engine, we will have our very own local Ariel Atom.

 

Cheers bro. Aim for the NUS course and do up a car for your Final year project.

 

I have not been thru it but I think the ITE course teaches you more basic skills rather than the tuning and modifications that you are after. The NUS course teaches you the fundamentals I believe and thereafter, you are free to exercise your imagination.

 

I will be the first to book the atom from you. =)

 

I am honoured to have your kind input, Bro Jiayong.I wonder why a 4 cyl(four stroke) supercharged engine rather than a supercharged inline-6 was installed on the Atom.This would, in effect increase the horsepower?(Pardon me for my misguided ways if i am wrong to think that the more cylinders there are, the more horsepower it would produce.) I am inclined to think of the Ariel Atom as a half motorcycle/car as a way to take on supercars such as the Ferarri F430,etc by means of torque and weight saving, unless the 4 cyl is tuned for horsepower.

[Elfenstar]

Pardon me for asking, but i thought the VQ23DE and VQ35DE are both 6 cylinders mounted in a V shape,thus the V6. But unless i am swapping for a engine that has extra cylinders or lesser cylinders,this problem is does not exist?

 

Unless you mean that the pins cannot cope with the increased power and re-wiring.

 

I may not be correct, but since the J31 comes standard with 4-AT and CVT for all lineups(200JK,230JM,350JM) this would not be a problem?And the chassis size is virtually the same for all cefiros.Unless you mean that the 4-AT might not cope with the increased horsepower and torque,but since the 350JM comes with the same 4-AT, i might wish to post this query?

 

Didnt know the 2.3 was a v6. Did a quick read. That would make things quite a bit easier.

 

You may not need to change the wiring loom, but you may need to change the positions of some of the wires, etc as pin configuration and voltage figures used may not be the same. If they are the same then you're lucky, if they're not (pardon the language) but this would be the biggest head-f--k of the swap.

 

In terms of dropping the engine in, you need to find out if the block dimensions, shape etc are the same between the two. If they are the same then its easy, if not mounts, gearbox bellhousing, etc will need to be modified. I doubt they are though as even the VQ35 and VQ30 blocks (though similar) are different.

 

R.E. the gearbox, just because both come with 4AT and CVT, it does not mean that gearboxs are the same. Even if they are, the bellhousings, etc may not be the same. It may not even be the same gearbox used, and the gear ratios would definitely not be the same. If gearboxes are not the same, then its possible that even your driveshaft lengths etc may not be the same so yeah... big job.

 

I've helped with engine swaps (including a 1JZ into a S13 Silva), so you really need to know all of this and factor in if you will have the budget to do the job. Note I said budget as any swap is possible with enough $$$

[Elfenstar]

I am honoured to have your kind input, Bro Jiayong.I wonder why a 4 cyl(four stroke) supercharged engine rather than a supercharged inline-6 was installed on the Atom.This would, in effect increase the horsepower?(Pardon me for my misguided ways if i am wrong to think that the more cylinders there are, the more horsepower it would produce.) I am inclined to think of the Ariel Atom as a half motorcycle/car as a way to take on supercars such as the Ferarri F430,etc by means of torque and weight saving, unless the 4 cyl is tuned for horsepower.

 

More displacement = more power. The configuration (often together with the bore-stroke ratio) affects different "behavioural traits" of the engine, e.g. smoothness, rev-ability, torque curve, size, weight, etc

 

Btw, I really think you should go to uni. I suspect your family can afford it, so try for something like Monash where you can get involved in their Formula SAE project (a close friend was part of the original student team).

Edited February 7, 2009 by Elfenstar

[Failali]

Didnt know the 2.3 was a v6. Did a quick read. That would make things quite a bit easier.

 

You may not need to change the wiring loom, but you may need to change the positions of some of the wires, etc as pin configuration and voltage figures used may not be the same. If they are the same then you're lucky, if they're not (pardon the language) but this would be the biggest head-f--k of the swap.

 

In terms of dropping the engine in, you need to find out if the block dimensions, shape etc are the same between the two. If they are the same then its easy, if not mounts, gearbox bellhousing, etc will need to be modified. I doubt they are though as even the VQ35 and VQ30 blocks (though similar) are different.

 

R.E. the gearbox, just because both come with 4AT and CVT, it does not mean that gearboxs are the same. Even if they are, the bellhousings, etc may not be the same. It may not even be the same gearbox used, and the gear ratios would definitely not be the same. If gearboxes are not the same, then its possible that even your driveshaft lengths etc may not be the same so yeah... big job.

 

I've helped with engine swaps (including a 1JZ into a S13 Silva), so you really need to know all of this and factor in if you will have the budget to do the job. Note I said budget as any swap is possible with enough $$$

 

I see.Is it that the VQ35DE is implemented in the 350z,350JM, are interchangeable although the 350JM's powerplant is detuned by about 51 PS.(Does this make any modifications to the total engine block ?)Do the bore and stroke of the engines(VQ35 and VQ23) contribute to the differences of the respective block?

 

With the compression ratio of the 23DE 9:8:1 ,will there be any impact on the ron rating i have to use, with regards to the ECU,as my dad is using Ron 98 for the current engine block, 23DE?

 

How much would an engine swap cost?(referring to the 1JZ to the S13 silvia)