Is it a crime to keep items lost by others?

[Tkseah]

Came across the following thread and am wondering what's the charge and penalty like if the fella is caught..

 

http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buysell2/Y...&num=1222253515

 

Btw.. i'm neither the fella who lost the phone nor the fella in the pic...

[Qpik]

Answer to yr thread title: Yes.

 

Charge & penalty: Not sure.

 

But I hv a qtn too. I've passed on stuff that I've picked up to the neighbourhood police post & I came across hp under "Lost & Found". So, Imei no. can help in recovering/returning the hp to the owner??

[So_nice]

fraudulent possession of another person's belongings is an offence!

[So_nice]

they will go thru the phone to find out who is the owner. IMEI? forget abt it. those telcos not so free to check for u. they sold so many phones each year where got time?

[Mustank]

a risky thing the victim is doing

 

if there is insufficient evidence for the bad guy to be convicted, victim is open to civil suit for putting this on the net

 

perhaps victim could have cleared whatever he wanted to put on the net with his lawyer

 

victim should also note illustration A below. not only must evidence point to the bad guy picking up the phone, it must also show that the bad guy misappropirating it, eg sells the phone.

 

in addition, theft is not criminal misappropriation:

 

s378(g) penal code: A finds a ring lying on the high road, not in the possession of any person. A by taking it commits no theft, though he may commit criminal misappropriation of property.

 

403 penal code: Whoever dishonestly misappropriates or converts to his own use movable property, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 2 years, or with fine, or with both.

 

Explanation 2.

A person who finds property not in the possession of any other person, and takes such property for the purpose of protecting it for, or of restoring it to the owner, does not take or misappropriate it dishonestly, and is not guilty of an offence; but he is guilty of the offence above defined, if he appropriates it to his own use, when he knows or has the means of discovering the owner, or before he has used reasonable means to discover and give notice to the owner, and has kept the property a reasonable time to enable the owner to claim it.

 

What are reasonable means, or what is a reasonable time in such a case, is a question of fact.

 

It is not necessary that the finder should know who is the owner of the property, or that any particular person is the owner of it; it is sufficient if, at the time of appropriating it, he does not believe it to be his own property, or in good faith believe that the real owner cannot be found.

 

Illustrations

(a) A finds a dollar on the high road, not knowing to whom the dollar belongs. A picks up the dollar. Here A has not committed the offence defined in this section.

 

(b) A finds a letter on the high road, containing a bank note. From the direction and contents of the letter he learns to whom the note belongs. He appropriates the note. He is guilty of an offence under this section.

 

© A finds a cheque payable to bearer. He can form no conjecture as to the person who has lost the cheque. But the name of the person who has drawn the cheque appears. A knows that this person can direct him to the person in whose favour the cheque was drawn. A appropriates the cheque without attempting to discover the owner. He is guilty of an offence under this section.

 

(d) A sees Z drop his purse with money in it. A picks up the purse with the intention of restoring it to Z, but afterwards appropriates it to his own use. A has committed an offence under this section.

 

(e) A finds a purse with money, not knowing to whom it belongs; he afterwards discovers that it belongs to Z, and appropriates it to his own use. A is guilty of an offence under this section.

 

(f) A finds a valuable ring, not knowing to whom it belongs. A sells it immediately without attempting to discover the owner. A is guilty of an offence under this section.

[Tkseah]

I think lost HP more straightforward cos it can usually be traced back to owner by imei or sim card.

 

But say if someone picked up a $10 note in public.. dunno who to return to.. then kanna caught on surveillance camera and kanna arrested.. a bit yuan wang..

[Apollo]

IMEI tracking is available but not free

[David]

An old school of thoughts(well mine anyway) - even if it is a five cent coin, spend it. Do not bring it home.

[Tkseah]

Wah.. very detailed..

 

I also thought the victim is going a bit far to label the fella who picked up the phone as a 'criminal'.. open to libel suit..

Edited September 25, 2008 by Tkseah

[Gadgeter]

I believe it should be a crime, But am not sure of the charges.

[Qpik]

SIM card if not prepaid type right.

 

Otherwise, there won't be hp lying at the police post liao. I wonder what happen to items unclaimed at police post. Do they auction off??

[Mustank]

Bro, copy and paste only lah

 

if my lecturer see this standard, i confirm sure get it big time from him

[Qpik]

early mrng lecture on LAW.

 

Today u teaching this to yr undergraduates siboh

 

Tks, very detailed.

[Qpik]

For coins that I've picked up, I will accumulate & then dropped it off at donation box. I take it as helping the rightful owner to do some good deeds.

[So_nice]

like i said, the logical thing in receiving a found handphone by the officers would be going thru the handphone's contact list. or even the last dial number. that can help u to locate the owner.

 

auction off? i dunno it will end up being send to the govt treasury. only those up there noes.

[Tkseah]

Illustrations

(a) A finds a dollar on the high road, not knowing to whom the dollar belongs. A picks up the dollar. Here A has not committed the offence defined in this section.

 

(f) A finds a valuable ring, not knowing to whom it belongs. A sells it immediately without attempting to discover the owner. A is guilty of an offence under this section.[/color]

 

Hmm.. so the difference between illustration (a) and (f) is that in (f) A sells it without attempting to find owner? What is A just keeps the ring for own use? Guilty?

[Mustank]

the key issue here is whether there is "dishonestly misappropriates or converts to his own use"

 

the definition for dishonestly is another lowlee of reaserch work, generally referring to the intention of causing wrongful gain or wrongful loss. trust me, lets not discuss this bec this is a big black hole never ending one

 

basically if A had intended to enrich himself by keeping the ring, good luck to him

 

issue is whether there is evidence to prove so.

[Mustank]

no lah, i am not a qualified person under the legal profession act

 

cannot dispense legal advice for a fee

 

but talk coock sing song here, it is ok