CNG Fire/Explosion : Honda Civic

[Yongwd]

http://www.firetrainingresources.net/items...pressedpics.pdf

 

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57346

 

 

The group of cars were set of fire by an arsonist. Only one CNG car was involved in this incident.

 

This is a view of all the cars involved

 

Another view from the rear

 

A view of the left side of the CNG civic. Notice the lack of roof, truck lid, and how the doors are extended completely at their extreme points. This was a result of the explosion, not fire suppression efforts.

 

 

Another view of the left side. In this picture you can see how the roof rails are bowed considerably from the force exerted on the car from the explosion. Also you can see clearly how far the front door was forced open.

 

 

This is a picture of the rear of the car. The CNG tank was mounted towards the front of the trunk. For an idea of where that would be look at the spare tire, just a bit more forward than that.

 

Another picture from the rear. Look at the metal bracket thats roughly sitting on top of the spare tire. Notice the U-bend clamps... those are the clamps that held down the CNG tank in the car.

 

A picture from the right rear

 

A picture of the right front. Notice the buckling of the hood from the pressure wave of the tank exploding. Its also pretty easy to see how much the roof pillars were blew out.

 

A view from the front of the car. I think the fact that windshield washer fluid resivor was undamaged so exactly how much blast damage and flash fire there was to the car. The fluid in the container kept it from melting/burning.

 

 

A closer view from the front.

 

 

A picture of the trunk lid. This was blown approximately 75 feet from the car. That little blue CNG sticker on the back is the only warning that fire fighters have to tell that the car is powered by NCG.

 

A picture of the roof of the civic. This was blow ~100 feet from the car. The screwdriver is there just for scale.

 

 

A part of the rear of the car/bumper assembly.

 

The actual rear bumper. Its sitting to the left and closer to the camera than the backhoe.

 

Where the CNG tank landed. ~110-120 feet away.

 

Another angle of where the tank landed.

 

A view of the CNG tank fitting. It separated a small amount from the tank when the explosion occured. This is not where the failure of the vessel happend....

 

A picture of the CNG tank. Notice the delamination of the carbon fiber wrapping around the tank. These tanks are designed almost identical to the SCBA bottles we firefighters wear on our back.

 

Another view of the extreme delamination due to fire involvement and explosion.

 

A third view of the tank.

 

A final fourth view of the tank. The hammer is there for scale.

 

I think its quite obvious the extreme danger these vehicle types are when involved in fire. It is extremely dangerous to fire fighters as they are the ones that have to put out the fire when we are called to it, and often times it is impossible or very difficult to tell wether or not the car has such a tank in it.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Yongwd

[Cordia_gsr]

Must have been freaking great balls of fire

[Yongwd]

i wonder how safe are those composite tanks sold locally ...

[Dirtrider_ak]

Carbon fibre cylinder .... if you set fire to it maybe degraded. If steel tanks it is safer the valve will go first in a fire and vent.

[Cordia_gsr]

Well, gas in compressed form is dangerous by nature if not handled within safety usage.....

[Mage]

yeah ..

 

hmm, and i wonder would there be a NCAP rating criteria for CNG cars as well? Either way, wouldnt want to be beside one when it blows up

[Nivlac]

this is a very typical method used by the organisations and lawyers... called plan B. basically, instill "fear" and blame everyone else. Cost of a civic cng in US... $25k? blow it up... let media cover it and pretty soon everyone will be reverting back to petrol can easily make back the $25k in hours!!

[Koolaba]

Potential CNG car owners should ask themselves this question: Are vehicles retrofitted with CNG kits in Singapore designed for CNG operation in the first case?

 

Other than the Mercedes E200 NGT and Chevrolet Optra CNG, there is no other vehicle with factory CNG installations. Of these 2, the reviews by motoring columnist Christoper Tan, of the Optra CNG are disastrous. Effectively, the only reliable CNG vehicle that you can get here is the E200 NGT.

 

From an engineering point of view, vehicles retrofitted with CNG systems are designed with petrol operation in mind ONLY. The chassis and suspension systems are not designed to handle the additional load of the CNG tanks. Read the following write-up on the Opel Zafira CNG:

http://www.netcarshow.com/opel/2006-zafira_cng/

 

Zoom in on the last paragraph and ask yourself if the engine management unit and engine block of conventional petrol vehicles are designed with the following elements in mind?

1. Fortified pistons

2. Special valve and vale seat inserts

3. Individual injection banks for CNG and petrol

4. Optimally tuned ECU for CNG and petrol operation

 

CNG combustion leads to increased ambient temperature in the combustion chamber and subsequently the engine block. Premature valve seat recession and premature degradation of valve seat inserts will bound to hit engines which are designed for petrol operations only.

 

Is there a likelihood of heftier maintenance bills as a consequent of CNG operation on an engine purely designed for petrol operation?

 

The case of the stalled Optra CNG is a classic example of improperly tuned ECU for bivalent operation. What is the confidence level of the tuning capability of the local CNG installers?

 

From the maintenance perspective, will the savings in fuel expenditure be eroded by maintenance costs associated with a retrofitted CNG system? According to a Channel 8's "Frontline" programme telecast on 13 Jun 08, an experienced mechanic has mentioned that the CNG tanks and associated components require replacement every 5 years or so. The estimated cost is $3k (based on current prices).

 

From the safety perspective, will the crash test results be valid after the retrofitted CNG systems are included in the picture? Whilst vehicles with factory-fitted CNG installations like Opel Combo CNG and Opel Zafira CNG have scored well in crash tests, can we extrapolate such results for locally fitted CNG vehicles? Currently, we are hearing and reading claims that vehicles retrofitted with CNG systems locally are safe, from installers who have vested interest in the booming CNG retrofitting business. Yet there is no formal crash test report from established crash test institutes such as NCAP to substantiate such claims.

 

If one reckons that by switching to CNG on the grounds of environmental protection, this article should provide new insight on the environmental "friendliness" of CNG compared to newer generation of diesel.

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/8...tive/829622.pdf

Edited June 30, 2008 by Koolaba

[Kianbeng]

ya lor. too much of these make-believe news. Today I just informed my insurance company regarding the CNG installation. They now say..ask me how much I want to insure it. They will give me a loading. I was like .... I thought no added premium on CNG cars???

[Genie47]

Optra CNG uses an aftermarket Landirenzo system. It is the same as retrofitting a previously monofuel petrol Optra with a Landirenzo SGI kit. It is tuned by the same aftermarket people that Landirenzo will train at Scantruck but this time in Thailand. It is priced higher than an Optra that is monofuel and then converted later by Scantruck locally. It is GM's method of plugging their leak in revenue.

 

The Zafira, FIAT Natural Power Pandas and other "factory installed" SGI systems are from Teledyne. Same principles of SGI delivery with a "CNG ECU" ape-ing the petrol ECU since the CNG ECU does not really have a map.

 

Chris Tan got the disastrous Optra CNG because the tuning is crap. GM or rather the ADs for Chevy too eager beaver to display their new kid.

 

All that you have bolded is found in the Civic GX which is what this exploded Civic is. The Civic GX is the only monofuel CNG vehicle in the world.

 

So are the European factory CNG versions really safe? Don't shoot yourself. This article is just a salvo fired by some dubious reporter against all CNG cars be it a perceived very well engineered bifuel E200 NGT or bifuel Zafira.

[Genie47]

Screw them. Insurance is based on the value of your car. The loading is due to your age or your recklessness in past records.

 

In the UK, loading depends on where you live and your job as well.

[Genie47]

Duh! Carbon fibre isn't exactly heat resistant. It's organic stuff. Then again, diamonds are carbon too and they burn in a furnace.

 

A steel cylinder can be burned and when the temperature gets too high, the contents vent through the relief valve. The steel cylinder will still be intact.

[Genie47]

Dunno who in the right mind will pay for them. Too expensive and this weight thing is so much hype for a family sedan. Too much racing from the popular media and even motorsports that people cannot see that a family sedan is different from a car for racing where weight is critical.

[Seetoh]

So CNG not good overall?

[Genie47]

A steel cylinder has a rating higher than any car's NCAP. Yes, the gas has more protection than the car's human occupants.

[Yongwd]

puzzled me was a factory designed mono fuel Civic GX shld have some sort of safety vent mechanism fitted near the top cylinder like locally retrofit units.

[Genie47]

Can do lah. Looking at the price of petrol, looking at the NOx that petrol produces.

[Genie47]

No idea. Maybe Honda's engineers have failed to conceive arson to be a threat.