Is BBK an overkill for a small compact car?

[Kelpie]

Hi guys,

 

1. I'm still trying to convince myself to invest in a Big Brake Kit aka BBK. While I don't deny the superiority of a BBK in enhancing stopping distance but the question is just how much it helps in a street car? Don't want to install something that improve slightly, add weight or cause maintenance issue later. Afterall, brake could be a live and death issue, unlike your simple and straight forward air-intake system.

 

2. Would BBK really make a difference in a small compact car like the Civic SI? Wouldn't the manufacturer had factored it all the necessary variance and equip its stock braking based on the defined specifications i.e 155bhp and top speed of around 210km/h? Is BBK overkill for a car that barely have 160 horses with a 1.32ton body?

 

3. Please advise me and if you have recommendation on any suitable upgrade please let me know too.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Regards,

[Evoluzio]

Civic SI is a small compact car?

[Vblaster_w211]

I take it that you have the Civic Si 2L with K20A3 producing 155bhp.

 

If so, I'll recommend a modest 4 or mini 4-pot for front with a larger brake disc and steel braided hose. About 70% of stopping will be from the front brakes for Honda's FF layout.

 

You can try Wilwood. If you want good brakes from OEM manufacturer (they make for other brands) at a cheaper price, try JBT.

[Kelpie]

Civic SI is a small compact car?

 

Still a small car by internetional standard...may be big to Singaporean but I always tell people that it is just a small car.

 

Regards,

[Relagsingh]

IMO, you'll only need BBK if you go track.

 

dun waste your money.

[Kelpie]

I take it that you have the Civic Si 2L with K20A3 producing 155bhp.

 

If so, I'll recommend a modest 4 or mini 4-pot for front with a larger brake disc and steel braided hose. About 70% of stopping will be from the front brakes for Honda's FF layout.

 

You can try Wilwood. If you want good brakes from OEM manufacturer (they make for other brands) at a cheaper price, try JBT.

 

1. How much clearance do I have to cater? am changing from 16" to 17" rim. Do you know how to measure the effectiveness of a braking system? Do they have a formula to measure, say, stopping distances or the like?

 

2. Alternatively, some will recommend to use Accord Euro spec brake system. Just like now, the ES, I switched to Prelude for Front and EP3 for rear. Again, these are not BBK but using Honda stock brake system from car models with higher specifications. They serve me very well at top speed.

 

Regards,

[Kelpie]

IMO, you'll only need BBK if you go track.

 

dun waste your money.

 

How about spritual driving along NSHW with a high frequency of hitting top speed?

 

Regards,

[Vblaster_w211]

I've driven the FD. It's stock brakes are much better than the Integra GSR. IMO, quite sufficient for normal driving.

 

As for the Integra GSR - my first advice would be - change them. Fast.

[Kelpie]

I've driven the FD. It's stock brakes are much better than the Integra GSR. IMO, quite sufficient for normal driving.

 

As for the Integra GSR - my first advice would be - change them. Fast.

 

Having driven the ES, FD braking characteristic seen identical to the ES, except that it has sharper response but still not good enough for me, kinda of spongy. I was told the 1st thing to change is the rubber brake hose to alleviate the "problem". Better change to steel braided hose right away to avoid "kissing" as I was told.

 

Regards,

[Vblaster_w211]

In that case, just go for JBT 4-pot. No problem with clearance on 17" rims. Your braking will be much improved over just steel braided hose and pads upgrade.

[Kelpie]

Is JBT also a Taiwanese product? Thanks.

 

Regards,

[Relagsingh]

so i believe your concern is the ability to reduce stopping distance and improve brake responsiveness in cases of emergency right?

 

to start off, its very dangerous to hit top speed on public roads. if a cow or a deer decides to cross the road, even if your car is fitted with porsche's PCCB, air brake spoilers like the veyron or the SLR along with a parachute, also no use.

 

no offence bro. IMO, brakes are tried, tested and proven by manufacturers and offer adequate stopping power with regards to their primary use. the 2.0Si is a family sedan, i believe now you can understand what i'm trying to say. And its not as if you'll be abusing your brakes until brake fade along the whole stretch of NSHW also.

 

Just change to steel braided hoses or better pads if you must. or spray your calipers if you're going for aesthetics. but please.... not those fake brembos please... it garnered high votes for one of the most 'bo liao' add ons ever.

[Vblaster_w211]

Taiwan manufacturer of BBK for quite a few branded BBKs. You can get them at Yap Bro.

[Kelpie]

so i believe your concern is the ability to reduce stopping distance and improve brake responsiveness in cases of emergency right?

 

to start off, its very dangerous to hit top speed on public roads. if a cow or a deer decides to cross the road, even if your car is fitted with porsche's PCCB, air brake spoilers like the veyron or the SLR along with a parachute, also no use.

 

no offence bro. IMO, brakes are tried, tested and proven by manufacturers and offer adequate stopping power with regards to their primary use. the 2.0Si is a family sedan, i believe now you can understand what i'm trying to say. And its not as if you'll be abusing your brakes until brake fade along the whole stretch of NSHW also.

 

Just change to steel braided hoses or better pads if you must. or spray your calipers if you're going for aesthetics. but please.... not those fake brembos please... it garnered high votes for one of the most 'bo liao' add ons ever.

 

1. What you have just said, mean you know what I'm talking about. Yes, a stock car can't make it to high or top speed reliably without some reinforcement. I often ensure the path infront and behind are clear before attempting top speed. NSHW is just very tempting, keeping to 130km/h will make me wanting to sleep .

 

2. 1st time when I tried the car at top speed, I have to grab the steering wheel real hard to counter the vibration, high speed braking will almost cause the car to go zig-zaging. Knowing the car limitation, I have a total of 6 points of reinforcement with thickened sway bars in the current car and sound dampened the whole car. I've also changed and replaced the stock brake system with Prelude and EP3 braking system. And with a good set of UHP, the car becomes more sure footed and NSHW high speed cruising is now more enjoyable. This current car is only 110~115 or so in bhp.

 

3. Now with the incoming one at 155, I'm hoping the stock brake is up to standard. High speed road test just can't be achieved on SG public road. Afterall, what is power without control?

 

4. Brake cover is just cheapstakes, similarly to pasting sunroof lookalike sticker on the car..just my opinion, sorry if any bros out there found this offending.

 

Regards,

[Wrxblue]

Hi guys,

 

1. I'm still trying to convince myself to invest in a Big Brake Kit aka BBK. While I don't deny the superiority of a BBK in enhancing stopping distance but the question is just how much it helps in a street car? Don't want to install something that improve slightly, add weight or cause maintenance issue later. Afterall, brake could be a live and death issue, unlike your simple and straight forward air-intake system.

 

2. Would BBK really make a difference in a small compact car like the Civic SI? Wouldn't the manufacturer had factored it all the necessary variance and equip its stock braking based on the defined specifications i.e 155bhp and top speed of around 210km/h? Is BBK overkill for a car that barely have 160 horses with a 1.32ton body?

 

3. Please advise me and if you have recommendation on any suitable upgrade please let me know too.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Regards,

 

Brakes is not about just stopping the car....in fact if you consider reviewing it..most of the time, you brakes is for moderating the rate of speed your car is travelling..hence it form a criteria part of control of your car in straights, cornering, slowing in turns etc...

 

Although a BBK looks very tempting and indeed help to improve the absolute braking power your car (when I say BBK, I means reputable brands with BBK mods inclusive of front and rear) coz as mentioned braking is about balance..not just about absolute braking force.

 

if you want to read more to decide..you can go to this website.

I believe it give a very good writeup on when and how you should upgrade your brakes.

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_brakes/brakes_balancing.shtml

 

In summary, a standard brake system is sufficient for most of your street usage..unless you absolutely need better stopping power eg:for track use, or really fast driving(then again why are you doing it on the streets?? ) and you can consider a set from a reputable brands which specifically made a set(front and rear) for your car.

 

good luck...

Edited January 20, 2008 by Wrxblue

[Kelpie]

Brakes is not about just stopping the car....in fact if you consider reviewing it..most of the time, you brakes is for moderating the rate of speed your car is travelling..hence it form a criteria part of control of your car in straights, cornering, slowing in turns etc...

 

Although a BBK looks very tempting and indeed help to improve the absolute braking power your car (when I say BBK, I means reputable brands with BBK mods inclusive of front and rear) coz as mentioned braking is about balance..not just about absolute braking force.

 

if you want to read more to decide..you can go to this website.

I believe it give a very good writeup on when and how you should upgrade your brakes.

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_brakes/brakes_balancing.shtml

 

In summary, a standard brake system is sufficient for most of your street usage..unless you absolutely need better stopping power eg:for track use, or really fast driving(then again why are you doing it on the streets?? ) and you can consider a set from a reputable brands which specifically made a set(front and rear) for your car.

 

good luck...

 

1. Thanks for that interesting article, actually clear my doubts on some questions in mind . In a nutshell, I've gathered the following understandings:

 

a) Larger rotors

They actually act as larger heat sinks. Their larger mass reduces the peak temperature they reach so that they can stay mechanically stable and last longer.

 

b) Why shorter braking distance with BBK?

Not withstanding the fact that it is actually the tyres that control the braking distance, BBK works by applying stopping forces generated by the torque create at the rotors to dominates the available stopping forces. So with a bigger rotors, maximum braking can be achieved with less pedal pressure result in less stopping time. Hence, we can press lighter on the pedal with a BBK to get equivalent stopping power in stock braking system. It feels like the brakes make a big improvement in stopping power by not pushing as hard to get the same stopping power.

 

c) Rear braking is used less not useless

Lets based on a ratio of 70% for front and 30% for rear of a stock car. By doing a BBK just for front, it will actually shift the ratio from rear to front, which make the rear less used. Overdoing is no good because we're foresaking the optimized configuration tuned by the manufacturers. So when upgrade also have to do it in tandem. If the rear ratio is low, there may not be sufficient downforce and thus send the car to go zig-zaging during hard braking. This further justify my need to have a Trunk spoiler .

 

2. It seems like BBK is mostly comestic for street cars. A simple upgrade of larger rotors, better brake pads and steel braided hosez are what most layman cars would need. However, for a better braking feel and response, BBK seems to be a good upgrade though not a necessity.

 

Regards,

Edited January 20, 2008 by Kelpie

[Lucaswh]

i know there's a vios who put VTTR mini 6 pot. so just do it..

[Kelpie]

i know there's a vios who put VTTR mini 6 pot. so just do it..

 

I think a mini car doesn't justify my wallet for a 6 pots, it is just for show..if you ask me. Well, not my money anyway and it is the driver choice.

 

Regards,