Are standalone GPS devices still relevant today?

[Longg8]

You can just buy a GPS receiver for your 818pro.

 

ey? where? sim lim? whats the cost uh? thanks thanks

[Chickenbackside]

There are plenty at AAAs Com Solutions at Sim Lim Square, 4th storey. Price starts at $100+ and up...

[Dr_yap]

I don't see the need to compare here. If it's just the pricing, then maybe. For gamin, it's simple, it's mainly for driving, there is no point in getting a GPS phone (unless of cos u are always walking lost) and it's leaves u with better options for more phone choices too. As it said.. screen bigger.. touch screen instead of keying it with the alphanumeric pad..v fast and efficient..and I also saw that you started the nokia phone on GPS first, then to garmin, you should get sumone to start garmin together the same time as the nokia. would this one off test be accurate enough to say that the garmin took longer on a cold start? I'll love to see it on a lesser skewed prediction and analysis. obviously I could see that you were with the nokia phone from the start. I have office sponsored HTC and a nokia phones and both runs GPS maps also. once in tunnel, the connection gets lost, while the garmin operates perfectly. also in buildings, phones are less capable to pick the sat signals. So am I skewed towards the other side?

 

from the validity of your this test, I have found it inconclusional. unless you repeat the test and in various real-life situations, all I can say is that, if you drive, use a garmin, if not the nokia phone is a second handed sub. I think ppl should take your test with a pinch of salt and make their own choices based on their personal preferences (e.g., bigger screen for stand-alones, cheaper to get a GPS phone etc.).

 

Edited November 26, 2007 by Dr_yap

[Slowmo]

hi, you are not making sense.

 

gps lost signal in tunnel and garmin still can 'navigate'?

[Mivec9]

Hi chickenbackside,

 

I find your post on this comparision very inaccurate on the satellite fix.

 

First, you have to understand the "warm" and "cold" start of these GPS devices. If you have not turn on your GPS (locked on to satellites) on either the Nokia or Garmin for let say... a couple of days... or if you last turned it on when you were, let say... 20 miles away, turning it on now will require a certain amount of time to get a lock on. By the way, warm start means, the time off and time on was short and device is "REUSING" the same satellites.

 

It is also harder to lock on when your device is on the move, even harder to lock on when it is raining.

 

I have yet to hands on the same phone you tested. Are you saying the accuracy of the Nokia is more updated than the Garmin?

 

hope this open up for more discussion :)

 

Thanks for your most detailed explanation on the lock-on of the satellite. Guess best is to remain stationary to get the lock-on. A typical lock-on on the move for nuvi is around 5mins. There're several cases where ppl have trouble locking on.....

[Mivec9]

Look like N82 is the way to go if one wants to try AGPS for nokia phone

[Demonite]

N95 8 gig uses the same AGPS and it has a bigger screen.

[Chickenbackside]

DR_YAP:

 

In case you missed it:

 

1) Both GPS modules have not been turned on for 72hours prior to the test.

2) They were switched off at the same location, ie, where I started the journey in the test

3) I switched on the Nokia GPS at 6.30pm, keyed in the address and by 6.31 pm, I had a satellite fix and was ready to go.

2) I switched on the Garmin at 6.33pm and keyed in the address. I sat in the same car in the same spot until 6.38pm, still no satellite fix. I was late and hence started to drive.

 

Taking into account the conditions as stated above:

 

1) Please explain that why the phone, which according to you has inferior satellite lock abilities, can get a fix in 1 minute (6.30pm to 6.31pm)?

 

2) Please also explain why the Garmin, which according to you has superior satellite locking abilities, cannot get a fix after 5 minutes (6.33pm to 6.38pm).

 

All this is clearly visible in the video if you actually paid attention. I can turn on the Garmin FIRST, and the Nokia will still get a satellite fix BEFORE the Garmin. I can say that for certain because I use them both side by side everyday for a few weeks before deciding to make this video.

 

Or maybe you could explain why I can get a satellite fix with the Nokia INSIDE my house within 1 minute but can never get one with the Garmin even if I sit there for 1 hour?

 

Or maybe you can explain why in Shenton Way, the Nuvi sometimes gets confused and keep recalculating while the Nokia is stable?

 

Did you use a Nokia phone that runs AGPS in your comparison with the HTC and Garmin, if not, your comments are not valid here.

 

Maybe if you READ and WATCHED carefully, you would see the point I was trying to make.

 

I did NOT say phone/GPS are better than standalone devices like Garmin. What I said is in terms of navigation effectiveness, the gap has narrowed to the point where it is now conceivable to replace standalone GPS with integrated GPS on a phone.

 

And I NEVER EVER told people that it is better to buy a phone-GPS than a standalone GPS.

 

All I suggested was maybe it is time to take phone-GPS solutions as seriously as standalone GPS.

 

In fact, this is my reply to someone who asked me my opinion:

 

 

 

And there is no need to resort to gun violence.

Edited November 27, 2007 by Chickenbackside

[Osiris]

haha, don't u hate it when people shoot their gap off people even understanding what they are commenting on.

 

think he should change his nick sans Dr

[Cyberet]

using MK on my o2xdaII with a holux btr

 

it takes ages to get a fix with an overcast sky.. and in small roads navi, sometimes it tells me i'm travelling on another nearby road

 

but still its great to use when travelling up north.

 

MK reroutes faster than Garmin for me..

i guess i'll still use MK as the maps r more updated.. thanks to malsing

[Watwheels]

MapKing now is using SLA maps. It's very different from malsing. malsing has very few apt blk info. I'm using both now to compare which is better.

 

Overcast sky won't affect much on my holux btr. I suspect that your PDA's processing is slow. Or your holux batt is weak.

[Cyberet]

ah, ic, yeah, o2 xdaII is like some antique i found in my storeroom for a low cost GPS solution

 

thanks for the headsup, gonna try later

 

anyway whats the difference between G10 and m7a?

i used to rename g10 to m7a to use

Edited November 27, 2007 by Cyberet

[Nkps]

i dun have a GPS device, neither do i have a GPS enabled phone....

 

i m a human street directory

[Chickenbackside]

You win all!

 

Teach leh...

[Mivec9]

for those with problem locking gps satellite, here's some solutions:

 

1. Erase data by tap the bottom left screen while off, then turn on set and "yes" to enter maintenance mode to erase data

 

2.Place it in the Garmin Friction Mount. I've noticed it connects almost instantaneously in the Mount and does take up to 2 minutes outside the Mount for the first lock of the day. I believe the wires in the Mount for connecting to the car wire may also carry the satellite signal.

 

3. Also, remove the PIN code. When I had the PIN code implemented, the first lock of the day took FOUR MINUTES. Now the first lock takes 30 seconds. Evidently, the software keeps polling for the PIN code if it is enabled taking time away from polling for the satellite signal.

[Dr_yap]

chicken guru,

 

ahhh, a one off test wonder...how would a simple test like this determine the end result that the garmin takes longer to lock in? your test result from the mini experiment of yours certainly says very little. May I suggest that you read up more into conducting tests fairly. You may have the technicalities , but what and how can you proof that with the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time, the end test results will stay the same? Did you factor in human error? If such a conclusive test can be said of to a certain product's qualities or shortcomings, then maybe I round off to say that any, and I meant anyone out there, can simply perform a test, factor in certain conditions, get the end result and proclaim the test shows forth the analysis which is at all irrefutable (sic)? perhaps engineers should just test any product once and benchmark its abilities and failings right away.

 

I present to you the mindset of a skeptic, which in due fact the messages across here would have people to seriously reconsider your "straight forward" connotations as to the many displays of various cell phones models in your technical blog.

 

As for credibility , I take of your nick as said its own course. wow, you simply amaze me!

 

peace bro, we are after all identical to begin with.

[Chickenbackside]

Peace DR-YAP.

 

I totally understand the need to be skeptical. Perhaps I got a bit hot under the collar and I apologise for sounding a tad harsh in my response, unlike your response towards me.

 

I, just like you, was skeptical when I received the device for testing. They claim that AGPS greatly improves the user experience. I thought to myself: "Yeah right... If it's anything like your last GPS attempt on the N95, it's going to be a waste of time".

 

The first time I loaded the GPS application on the phone, the time taken to acquire a satellite fix startled me. I have never experienced my Garmin start up this quick before, and the last location where my test N82 GPS was used was in FINLAND. Talk about a cold start.

 

After a few days, it sank into me that AGPS is actually usable. After 2 weeks of using my SIRF III Garmin and AGPS phone side by side, I am convinced that the phone is as effective as my Garmin when it comes to guiding you to places you don't know, which then compelled me to share this experience.

 

Yes, engineers can measure and give numbers to prove that the Garmin is in fact more sensitive and better in every respect. But I am just not one to take those numbers and conclude the effectiveness of the device. I want to use it everyday and compare it with the other options then decide for myself. If you've experience Volvo's 200bhp vs BMW's 200bhp, vs Saab's 200bhp, vs Volkswagon's 200bhp, you will know what I mean.

 

I personally wanted the Garmin to be much better, because I spent my hard earned money to buy not one, but two standalone Garmin devices.

 

But after actually using the phone GPS for a meaningful amount of time, after actually getting to know its idiosyncrasies, after considering the price of both devices, after considering the cons of a phone GPS, I personally feel that it is, at this point of time, actually feasible to consider phone GPS's instead of standalone GPS's, unlike before.

 

I did not say the phone GPS is better than my Garmin overall to use. I said that after using both devices, it's time to sit up take convergence technology seriously.

 

I am not a very technical person. I just like to use stuff. And hence the way I write reflects my style of evaluation, by user experience. I know it is not scientific and in fact, I always make disclaimers about my tests. It is not meant to be scientific but rather, it is meant to paint an accurate picture of day to day usage of the devices I write about.

 

Yes, I write a lot about Nokia phones. Why? Because I have access to them. I do not have to pay for them. Do they pay me to write about their phones? NO. Do I say good things all the time about them? Read for yourself.

 

As a person who likes devices that help improve the quality of life, I consider this "back stage pass" if you will, to be a privilege. I like to share this privilege. There's no other intention.

 

Of course, you can discredit me and tell the world about it. That's your call.

 

So DR-YAP, who name is infinitely more credible than chickenbackside, even though I may appear to be a tech laggard beside you, at least my nick is funnier than yours

Edited November 27, 2007 by Chickenbackside

[Creative_tec]

well said bro. i totally agree with what you say. At the end of the day, you are testing them as a layman, as a end user. The effort taken to share with us your testing is something that is worth praising. Don't be too bothered with this Dr Yap. He looks to me like someone who have nothing better to do, trying to pick up a arguement just to be busy. Maybe its like the chinese saying " eat no grapes say grapes sours"...