Vans and buses on the right lane

[Maverickguo]

u ve not seen one ultimate mini van. About midnite, he was flying at about 140km/h on a highway...... It was a white mini van. Not kangoo.

 

Rex go at 140 still stable.... but mini van.... Raging hormones siah.

 

Hey bro... I think diff cars got diff characteristic. Just like you cant say cars go at 140 still stable because there are those picanto, china cars and malaysia small cars. You can't say all mini van can't go high speed.

 

Just to share with you that I drive a Nissan, an opel mini van and ride a Yamaha 1300cc bike. When I was travelling in NShwy with my nissan at more than 150km/h, i could feel the car float esp when overtaking large buses, the car felt like it was pushed towards the right. However, when I drove my opel mini van at NShwy travelling at the same speed or even higher, the feeling is very different. The vehicle simply grip to the ground and even when overtaking large buses at that speed I dun feel the van being pushed towards the center divider like the car does.

 

I am not here to encourage speeding or breaking the rule whatsoever. But actually when driving in singapore be it on my bike, car or van. I have seen my fair share of road hogger. I definately agree that those bloody bangla always hog on to the center lane when obviously there are no traffic on the left or infront of them. When met with such driver, I will always overtake and horn them because I simply cannot stand it! However, I also have seen many old senior citizen driver and lady driver whom road hog like the bangla. Worst of all I see man road hogging becos they were chatting on the phone.

 

Also when I riding my bike, I never go between lane erm.. partly the bike is too big and I am not confident of squeezing thru traffic with such a wide bike. I always stay at the center of the lane and signal whenever changing lane or overtaking. Most of the time, I travel on the right lane and cars will tend to filter left to give way. However, there are times when the right most lane are really slow fill with convoy of vehicle upfront and I have to overtake from left. Upon going up to the front of the convoy of the right most lane, usually I see some morons travelling 80km/hr and insist sticking on the right lane though there are no vehicle on the left. Sometime, you will see that the culprit that is responsible for hogging up the right lane to be taxi driver!

 

Weirdest of all, cars behind these slow road hogging vehicle most of the time would chose to stay behind them, creating a long convoy behind, though the center and left most lane has no vehicle! Most of the time, ppl rather high beam or choose to do nothing behind the road hogger than use the 2 clear lane on the left to overtake.

 

There is also another pheonomenuem. When driver filter on to expressway. At the left most lane, when there are no vehicle infront of them somehow they can't speed up and insist of filtering to the next lane. Only when at the next lane somehow the engine cc increase and the vehicle can accelerate a little more. Than they will try to filter to the right most lane, when finally at the right most lane, than they can drive even faster! I am not saying that you should speed on the left lane, but seriously there isnt a need for you to slow down to 50 or 60km/hr just becos you want to squeeze to the center lane! You could have acc to 80km/h or whatever speed that is comfortable enuff for you to overtake the slow vehicle on the center lane.

 

In short, I am not here to side any class of driver because I am all 3. However, I hope ppl reduce their in grp biase and take a more objective perspective towards issue. Seriously, if the government dun make car owner pay so much, do you think the trafffic would even move? No becos there will be more cars! And why does commercial vehicle pay lesser tax? The government want to make singapore a condusive place to conduct business. Seriously, if a business does not need the vehicle they would not buy or use it. Transportation, is a need to keep the economy going, whereas, private cars are a luxury and does not play such an important role in the economy. Imagine if a firm could not operate properly w/o transportation, or let say incurred very high cost of operation shld the government choose to charge high taxes for comm veh, do you think your pay would be affected? Do you think there would be as many FDI to create job opportunity for you and for me?

 

I think sometime we need to look at the big pictures. With every pros comes some cons. There are just so many ppl in this society as well as so many diff grp of ppl. It is very hard to please everyone and no possible to be so. A vehicle is used to get to point A to B and everyone have that same purpose and commonality regardless bike van or cars! Eventually, as long as we manage to fulfill that purpose it is good enuff. As a matter of fact, the super car driver are also complaning us the normal car driver always hogging the right lane. They could not even use 1/4 of their bhp on singapore road most of the time. But do they come to forum and start whining? No. And why? That I left for all the forumer here to ponder. Before I end this long post, I think we should all learn to appreciate the traffic condition and infrastructure that we have. Have you seen the traffic at jakarta, KL, johor, hongkong, bangkok, cities in china and india? Do not forget we are living in a city, try going to any other establish cities in the world, how fast do you think ppl there could drive?

[Vesfreq]

Yes, I did imply that I have my doubts about that mini van's (which I saw that night) stability at 140km/h. And, note I never say ALL mini van. Check my post. u r entitled to ur own opinion, but dun throw words into my mouth. Thats.... totally uncalled for.

 

Look at the big picture? I think u spent too much time concocting a long reply, just to say look at the big picture..... The forum is a place for people to express their opinion. If u have that much to say, ur post better sent to ST than mcf. Just my honest 2 cents.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Vesfreq

[Renegade777]

Here's my e mail to TP.

 

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:01:40 +0800 (SGT)

From: [email protected]

To: [email protected]

Cc: [email protected]

Subject: Is This Allowed on Expressway?

Attachments: 19112007.jpg image/pjpeg 248 KB http://webmail.singnet.com.sg/webmail/view...13/19112007.jpg 19112007(001).jpg image/pjpeg 248 KB

http://webmail.singnet.com.sg/webmail/view.../1911200729.jpg Dear Sir/Mdm,

Today I encounter 2 commercial vehicles speeding on the expressways (See pics attached).

 

1) Pic 19112007 - Vehicle PA4923R, Silver Van CTE towards AYE, After Havelock Exit, 19th Nov 2007 11.59am Road Limit 80km/h, This van with the 70km/h limit is travelling on the right lane and there are little traffic on the middle lane and left lane.

 

2) Pic 19112997(001) - Vehicle GU5416H, Silver Van PIE Towards Tuas, After Bukit Batok Exit, 19th Nov 2007 15.26pm Road Limit 90km/h, This van with the 60km/h limit is travelling on the right lane and there are very little traffic on the middle lane and left lane. Please clarify if the action of these 2 commercial vehicle is acceptable under the traffic rules and laws governing the use of roads, commercial vehicles and approved legal speed for these vehicles.

 

Awaits your reply Sir/Mdm.

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

[Viviobluerex]

Next time must horn them to get them out of my way

No need lah. Let them be, now got Skycam.

[Viviobluerex]

" Read the reply from TP.

 

1st lane is strictly for cars doing overtaking only. "

 

hi, the letter didn't state that CVs are not allowed to travel/overtake in the 1st lane and no mention of lane 1 was in that letter.

I go clarify with TP again.

[Viviobluerex]

wah, bro, u r still so active here.

 

i did not know that 1st lane is overtaking only... most of the time, i have to overtake from left ( Lane 2).

 

but i did notice that a lot more cars are more aware of faster vehicles behind them in Lane 1. If they are slower, they will filter to Lane 2 first. IT is mostly those who are less experienced that still hog Lane 1.

I am active these days in many forums lah.....

[Viviobluerex]

u ve not seen one ultimate mini van. About midnite, he was flying at about 140km/h on a highway...... It was a white mini van. Not kangoo.

 

Rex go at 140 still stable.... but mini van.... Raging hormones siah.

Last time my Urvan goes to 140km/h too. Still stable.

 

That mini van could be a Haifei or a Suzuki Carry, these 2 small vans are very torquey too.

[Viviobluerex]

TPE @ 5pm ...

 

Image taken from front passenger seat with camera phone.

 

Send to TP.

[Viviobluerex]

Read the reply from TP.

 

1st lane is strictly for cars doing overtaking only.

 

where have ?

 

the letter did not indicate that 1st lane is not allow for commerial vehicles..

 

or strictly for cars only..

I write to them to clarify again.

[Efinity]

Just because the vehicle can easily reach the speed of 140km/h doesn't mean it should be driven at that speed.

 

Browsing through the STOMP website and MCF, I'm appalled that there are people who justify commercial vehicles travelling at high speeds on Lane 1 just cause "nowadays turbodiesels have turbo, very powerful" or "van still stable at 100km/h".

 

Of coz commercial vehicles, with their diesel engines, have lotsa torque. It's meant to carry loads. Yes, an empty commercial vehicle can accelerate very quickly but when it comes to stomping on the brakes at high speed, I think the vehicle becomes very unbalanced because it was simply designed to carry loads. Conversely, don't expect to stop a fully-loaded commercial vehicle in a short distance. Conclusion, commercial vehicles should stick to their speed limits.

 

Commercial vehicles are usually tall enough that they block the view of the road ahead. When they travel fast on Lane 1, car drivers behind cannot read the road conditions ahead. I know the 2-second rule is there to prevent pile-ups but being able to see what's happening far in front provides an extra layer of confidence. Conclusion, commercial vehicles should stick to their speed limits and stay out of fast-moving traffic in Lane 1.

 

And when the inevitable happens, speeding commercial vehicles have a greater tendency to kill the occupants in cars. We've witnessed enough of accident photos showing lorries escaping with minor damage whereas passenger cars get totalled. Commercial vehicles are built with different design considerations and are always tougher than passenger sedans. Conclusion, commercial vehicles should stick to their speed limits.

 

I dare any commercial vehicle driver to refute any of the statements above.

[Mingsect]

let this commerial vehicle driver try

 

 

here goes

 

so does low rides : e.g z4,mx5, zonda,civics,ferrari,etc behind

SUV/MPV .eg santa Fe, range rover, Q7, Even taxis using vito,liteace,fiat doblo,partner

 

(which are so used as commerial vehicle locally) ,get block lesser or get any better road conditions reading ?

Edited December 15, 2007 by Mingsect

[Kwchan]

There are cars that share the SAME chassis and design as van, so why these cars are allowed to travel faster? May be the S-plate got special blessing for these vehicle?

 

SUV and MPV are equally big and heavy as van, and the seats can fold down to carry goods, in that case there should be speed limit applied to SUV and MPV?

 

Carrying 7 x adults that weight half a ton is more dangerous than carrying 500kg of goods, since there are 7 lives at stake. In that case, all 7-seater cars should have speed limit too.

 

If based on your theory, Conti cars that have solid built like Volvo and Merc all should put speed limit, in order to "protect" jap and china cars?

 

In many countries, there are no such discrimination against comm vehicles, there is no speed limit for them (except those huge lorries and trucks), they do this because comm vehicle is definitely safe enough to travel at the same speed as cars. Any accident is due to the DRIVER, not the vehicle.

 

Look at the number of accident recently, there are clearly more reckless racer and drunk drivers in cars

Edited December 15, 2007 by Kwchan

[Rustycar]

Ouch!

 

His intention was good though.

[Rustycar]

Maybe we should have this as a sticky thread? Whenever someone post a new thread abt this same old topic, we direct them here. Saves us alot of repetition and work.

[Efinity]

Come on, we will have a field day if we start bringing out superlatives. Let's discuss based on typical non-commercial vehicles (passenger sedans) and commercial vehicles (vans, lorries). That's how LTA currently has it set up. Obviously there will be certain models from either class of vehicle that fall into grey areas. If the current vehicle classes aren't satisfactory, then perhaps LTA can set up a 10-class system to accurately categorize all the vehicles on our roads. Now that's gonna be cumbersome.

 

The point I wanted to bring across in my previous post was that a big vehicle, such as a typical commercial vehicle, will block out the view of the road in front for a typical passenger sedan. And this view is a safety bonus to drivers behind. Do you have any reason to say this statement is moot?

 

Anyhow, even those large SUV/MPVs aren't as tall as your typical commercial vehicle. Take a browse through the Toyota website if you aren't convinced. Commercial vehicles will always obscure more of the view in front either due to the tall forward cabs of lorries or panels of vans.

 

Furthermore, SUV/MPVs usually have glass all-round, affording the driver more situational awareness to safely drive at a higher speed, and also allow drivers behind to have a peek ahead.

 

Commercial vehicles typically have more blind spots. Driving at high speeds and not knowing what's going on behind is pretty irresponsible.

[Efinity]

Can someone help out here: Is it a requirement for an S-plate minivan to have windows all-round like passenger cars?

 

Also, is the S-plate Kangoo the 1.6V (petrol) or the common 1.5 dCi (diesel) LGV? Can someone verify this? I believe both versions are speced quite differently, with the petrol version having more safety features (wider tyres, ABS, EBD).

 

Gross weight (Taken from Toyota Singapore)

Toyota HIACE: 2800kg

Toyota Dyna 150: 3500kg

Toyota Previa: 2430kg (btw, this is a huge 8-seater MPV)

 

The large MPVs are usually the flagships and will definitely get a pick of the choicest components from the parts bin. Even with the bulk, you can expect a certain level of performance because you're paying through the nose for it! Fat performance tyres, shiny disc brakes all-round, airbags at every imaginable corner. Besides, MPVs ride lower and have wider track than most commercial vehicles. I think there are some regulatory bodies somewhere out there that prevents manufacturers from selling death traps.

 

Commercial vehicles were designed for a more utilitarian function. Fleet owners are not going to pay for features like ABS that are commonplace in passenger sedans. Heck, ABS is not even a customizable option! Please don't start citing the few examples of LGV, like the Opel Combo, that have ABS. These are really the minority. As in my previous reply to Mingsect, let's just deal with non-commercial/commercial vehicles in general. We'll get into a huge mess if you wanna dissect all vehicles one-by-one.

 

Have you seen a lorry before the cargo deck is installed? These vehicles have the Body-on-Frame design. Picture a battering ram on wheels, with an engine in front. This kinda design is the best way to produce a vehicle capable of supporting heavy loads.

 

Almost all modern passenger sedans, even 'solid build' continental makes, adopt the unibody philosophy. The car body and chassis are unified in a spaceframe and there is no more solid central skeleton like that found in the Body-on-Frame design.

 

I don't think I need to explain what happens when you put both designs in a head-on collision.

 

May I know which countries do not have different regulations for commercial vehicles? Do these countries have the same road conditions as Singapore i.e. crowded with traffic and pedestrians, average sized roads.

[Efinity]

Remember, the discussion is not about if the system in place now has failed to classify certain vehicles properly.

 

So you have tanks like the Estima & Fortuner (2510kg) under the non-commercial category.

 

Tough luck that the small Euro minivans, vans, lorries, prime movers, buses are all considered commercial vehicles. Take your beef to LTA about that. While you're at it, maybe ask them to consider if the Toyota Dyna can be considered a huge MPV and speed along Lane 1 when it's empty (1735kg) and commercial vehicle when it's loaded (3500kg) and crawl on the leftmost lane.

 

See how complicated it starts to get? I don't blame LTA for coming up with the current system because all they can do is group the vehicles according to its intended use. I also think manufacturers, because of the intended use, didn't design commercial vehicles with high speed performance in mind. That's pretty obvious from the spartan specs (skinny, made to last tyres, lack of ABS, leaf spring suspension, etc) don't you think?

[Viviobluerex]

Just because the vehicle can easily reach the speed of 140km/h doesn't mean it should be driven at that speed.

 

Browsing through the STOMP website and MCF, I'm appalled that there are people who justify commercial vehicles travelling at high speeds on Lane 1 just cause "nowadays turbodiesels have turbo, very powerful" or "van still stable at 100km/h".

 

Of coz commercial vehicles, with their diesel engines, have lotsa torque. It's meant to carry loads. Yes, an empty commercial vehicle can accelerate very quickly but when it comes to stomping on the brakes at high speed, I think the vehicle becomes very unbalanced because it was simply designed to carry loads. Conversely, don't expect to stop a fully-loaded commercial vehicle in a short distance. Conclusion, commercial vehicles should stick to their speed limits.

 

Commercial vehicles are usually tall enough that they block the view of the road ahead. When they travel fast on Lane 1, car drivers behind cannot read the road conditions ahead. I know the 2-second rule is there to prevent pile-ups but being able to see what's happening far in front provides an extra layer of confidence. Conclusion, commercial vehicles should stick to their speed limits and stay out of fast-moving traffic in Lane 1.

 

And when the inevitable happens, speeding commercial vehicles have a greater tendency to kill the occupants in cars. We've witnessed enough of accident photos showing lorries escaping with minor damage whereas passenger cars get totalled. Commercial vehicles are built with different design considerations and are always tougher than passenger sedans. Conclusion, commercial vehicles should stick to their speed limits.

 

I dare any commercial vehicle driver to refute any of the statements above.

U replied to the right person Bro?