NSF with rifle, ammo in Orchard Road

[Kwchan]

Wah piang, post it online.... think Straits times a bit overdoing just to gain repu is it? This is after all a tragedy...... the GF also one kind...... Think she prob feels proud able to be interviewed.... and go on TV.

 

and u see how many times the video repeat the same photo

[Scoop]

yeah lor.. burn a few months allowance while with him.

[Osiris]

 

security breach meh???

if the pic can be found publicly, where got breach?

 

if mp3 songs found publicly, is it wrong to download them?

 

This one different case. One has to factor in IP rights

If the picture is made public by a reviewer/owner, then the picture can be used for non-profit purpose (aka fair use)

 

if the artist allow mp3 songs to be downloaded, it is not wrong.

It's wrong when the artist dun allow and u download it

 

Let's not get into the IP rights argument in this thread. many grey areas

Edited September 5, 2007 by Osiris

[Nothingtodo]

[Altivo]

ya.. imagine.. since she can tahan all these:

 

1) u're botak

2) u're smelly

3) u're oily and full of pimples

4) u talk about nothing but guns and tanks

5) u fall asleep when watching movie

 

then confirm she is wifey material... hahahaha

[Osiris]

see... everything we say say/comment now is on hindsight... u know, just like those EPL armchair managers.

 

 

by not issuing an islandwide warning, was the police taking a chance with the lives of members of the public?

 

let me ask then, what would you do if you're the police? would you have alerted the public? or would u carry out a covert operation?

 

If you choose the former, then have you considered how the public might have reacted? Are singaporeans mature/rational enough to do the right thing? How would they take to the possible disruption to businesses/transport/traffic? What if it was a false alarm and Dave was not in Orchard Road? I bet with you singaporeans sure KPKB ....

 

Whether the authorities was right or wrong in keeping it hush hush.... we gotta admit that they did achieve the aim which is to arrest Dave Teo without anyone coming to harm.

 

 

 

agreed totally.

By doing it hush hush, they weigh the pro/cons took a gamble and suceeded.

If fail, then different story.

Fact is they did it without causing any hooha

 

they probably want to get him without confrontation or alarm.

Incognito is the key. If he's alerted and panic, well, let's just leave it as panic people do stupid things.

Things might have ended badly

Edited September 5, 2007 by Osiris

[Sfhuang]

Whether the authorities was right or wrong in keeping it hush hush.... we gotta admit that they did achieve the aim which is to arrest Dave Teo without anyone coming to harm.

 

Agree ...

[Gnoikj]

Lets say you are in the hot seat now...and you decide to go public with the announcement..Gunman at large with Assault rifle and rounds...all to stay at home...

 

You will most likely cause mass panic for the public who are still out and may be trying to get home...You would also have increased the stress level of the target pushing him closer to the edge...he now becomes more paranoid at everyone looking at him...he starts asking himself "is that guy looking at me? what do i do?" he goes over the edge and shoots...

 

Your use and example of the Virginia Tech shooting is flawed...The report that studied what went wrong stated that it was wrong of the school not to issue any warning AFTER the 1st shootings...I believe there was a time lapse after the korean student killed someone and the campus did nothing, no warning issued and that was the mistake the report pointed out......this situation we have here now is different...

[Relagsingh]

see... everything we say say/comment now is on hindsight... u know, just like those EPL armchair managers.

 

by not issuing an islandwide warning, was the police taking a chance with the lives of members of the public?

 

let me ask then, what would you do if you're the police? would you have alerted the public? or would u carry out a covert operation?

 

If you choose the former, then have you considered how the public might have reacted? Are singaporeans mature/rational enough to do the right thing? How would they take to the possible disruption to businesses/transport/traffic? What if it was a false alarm and Dave was not in Orchard Road? I bet with you singaporeans sure KPKB ....

 

Whether the authorities was right or wrong in keeping it hush hush.... we gotta admit that they did achieve the aim which is to arrest Dave Teo without anyone coming to harm.

 

they just got the job done.

[Altivo]

Nabez...u guys still carry handphone...my time, all we had was the bloody public phone..everyone queing up to make a call...pathetic!

 

i was lucky to have experience both the good and bad

 

Bad

1) Slept on the infamous foam/sponge bed during BMT and Sispec.

2) Cookhouse was still managed by NS cooks. Damn those bxxxxxds

3) Had to Q for public phones. Luckily, my classmate who enlisted earlier tipped me off on the availability of coin phones. So i brought in 40 dollars worth of 10 cts and during the first 2 weeks of confinement in BMT, I had the coin phone all to myself. Ahaha.. even managed to charge a small commission to my fellow platoon mates for coin changing service

4) Only had a small numeric pager which cost me $250 !! Ouch

 

Good

1) Had a chance to sleep on the new king coil bed in Arty

2) Cookhouse was commercialised during my final yr in NS. The food was

3) "Upgraded" to my first hp, the banana looking Nokia when i was posted to unit. Cos at that time, got sergent pay leow, so can afford to get a hp.

[Arcim]

Let's say this time the police's gamble paid off...what I'm saying is, what if the gamble failed? I'm sure you and many others will be singing a different tune and will be slamming them for not informing the public. a 20-hour time-lapse between the guy going MIA and his capture

 

The Virginia Tech scenario wasn't any different to this. If the school had issued a campus wide warning after the first shooting, no one will be still in their classrooms awaiting their death for the follow up 2nd shooting.

 

Let's say this Dave guy decided to shoot someone in Orchard Road (we still dunno why he took the weapon there, what motive...can't be to use it in the arcade and play arcade shooting with it right?). How?

 

I'm sure the police in their due diligence conducts such a scenario exercise (or something similar) as part of their training. This is something like having a BCP in place. Plan for every form of scenario, including communications. When to communicate, when not to, what implications. In BCP, get your communications wrong, your PR suffer...look at ODEX, their PR suffered due to poorly planned communications to the public. Communicate at the wrong time.

 

I'm not saying they are wrong this time not to issue a warning, but I'm not saying they are right either. the following is the police statement on the secrecy:

Separately, the Police on Wednesday issued a statement explaining why they had kept silent while a massive manhunt was launched to nabbed Teo.

 

"The statement said: 'The police would like to reiterate that the safety of the public was foremost on our minds even as we planned his capture.'

 

Once the incident was reported to the police, investigations and intelligence probes were launched.

 

Following up on leads gathered, police determined Teo's whereabouts and 'assessed that maintaining operational secrecy was vital to a safe and successful operation'.

 

In the interest of public safety, 'a decision was taken not to make the information public as that might put (Teo) on his guard or make him feel cornered'. "

 

I make reference back to the Virginia Tech shooting again...

The school gambled, and failed.

Our police gambled and won - lucky for us all. a 20-hour gamble...to me, that's taking it a tad over the comfort zone.

[Altivo]

haha frd,

 

we can argue til Dave "breaks out" from prison with a FH2000 and his ex ditches the butch for a tranny and we still will not have an answer...

 

Cos everything we say here would be "what if?" and more "what if?"

 

Whatever it is, the goal was met. So let's leave it as it is shall we? Afterall, the police are the pros right, so let trust that they will do their job properly lah...

[Nerdyfrog]

in this world, there are too many "if only"....

 

no one can cover every aspect in every thing we attempt to accomplish.

 

chinese saying, "man can plan, to do is up to god."

 

maybe the police did not take a gamble, it may be a calculated risk. there may other considerations they took.

 

lastly, i am not policeman hor....

[Arcim]

ya...hush hush until the One Eyed Dragon can happily escape to KL, Richard Yong can siam to Hongkong...hush hush until cant even inform their fellow authorities fast enough...

 

Sun Tzu also said lack of planning for contingencies is bound to failure (something like that)

 

based on my previous experiences dealing with our dear matas, even writing a short statement also take few hours...so I wun be surprised they spent 19 hours taking statements for this issue

 

anyway, enough from me on this issue...said wat i felt had to be said

[Karebu]

your bro's explanation is 1/2 right

 

they can chose to lock their guns at the gun rack when they are not on duty, but not compulsory because they are inside the camp and they can also clean their weapon as they wish during off duty timings.

 

- The guards will "draw" their rifles from the Unit armskote for the whole duration of their duty period. The rifles of the guards whom are off duty will be locked up to the gun rack in the Guard Room. Only the Guard Comm or 2IC (depending who is on duty) will hold the keys to it. If any of these guards wanna take their rifles for other purposes such as arms maintenance, then they have to ask for permission from Guard Comm/2IC. Once finished, they have to return their rifles to the rack again. If what your bro said is true, then i'm afraid his Unit is not following the General Orders from Mindef.

 

So it seems to be possible for him to Disappear for a few hours without anyone knowing untill his next shift duty, provided his partners is looking for him.

But then hor, if the particular post usually has 3-4 guards per shift. His other partners may never realise that anyone is missing if there are only 3 of them, when it was suppose to be 4.

You know lah nowadays manpower is lacking not only in private sector, even in army security guard also shorthanded, plus many keng MC every day.

 

- this is not possible as these guards will be broken up into shifts of a few hours (shan't say out the exact hours here). And they have to stand down as a shift together. Also, there will be a fixed number of guards assigned. This is for security purposes. So if your bro's camp's guard detail is understaffed, again his Unit is not following the General Orders from Mindef.

 

Dun play play hoh... later MSD perform a surprise check on your bro's camp, and treat all those involved for kopi...

 

 

erh. i think some camps (like mine) have only one sentry at gate. prowlers are in pairs though. so you wouldn't know if sentry disappear after quite some time.. right?

[Albeniz]

i tried to save up...after bmt and sispec..went unit..save up and buy a mountain bike and phone (motorola for 99 bucks, before was pager mah) if u r thrifty why not....i went australia and 2 x thailand during ns time, using my own allowance...not once touch parents $

 

I went to Thailand and Australia for free, all thanks to NSF and NS.

[Altivo]

ya.. but prowler got no key mah...

 

the keys are with Guard Comm or 2IC...

[Karebu]

whats that got to do with key.

 

sentry also got rounds what. dave didn't have that many rounds.

 

 

and most of the time the bunch of keys is just hanging around somewhere.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Karebu