Anyone can help in the time correction in Alpine 9887

[Hungryforcar]

Hi,

i read the manual still dun quite get it. config the dist from the speaker to your ear right

example L-F- 60cm , R-F 30cm, the vocal sound is more space apart. if i reverse the config example L-F - 30 cm, R-F-60cm the vocal sound is at concentrate at the central dashboard. so which is the correct setting? or both are wrongly config?

[Sarong1]

Hi, is yours active or passive?

[Hungryforcar]

passive. 1 amp 4 channel for front components and rear component. 1 amp 2 channel for basstube.

[Kermit]

Probably explains why you are having problems with TA. Bro Sarong suspected this is the case. You see, the basic idea of TA is that you specify the distance of the speakers from the listener, so that your HU will vary the timing of the speakers playing (L & R) in order that the sound reaches the listener at about the same time. When this is so, you get the perception that the vocals (normally set in centre stage) appear to be at the centre of stage.

 

But....but the problem is, in a passive setup, you cannot specify how far away are the tweeters and midbass with respect to you. i.e. you can only set the distance collectively as a set (for either left or right channel). Unless your tweeters and midbass are of equal distance from you for both sides, you are unlikely to get a good stage image....

 

I have tried to explain in simpler terms...i hope you understand...haha

[Sarong1]

Hungryforcar, Bro Kermit has explained it well. . Now, let's move on a bit deeper and more interesting, the TA is going to be made much more difficult when you have your rear speakers in place. That will mean you have to TA all your drivers, i.e. your Front Left and Right speakers, your Rear left and right speakers.

 

I am not saying that you can't TA all your speakers in the car, you can still do so by tuning down your rear or not playing them at all (unless you intend to go 5.1 or 7.1 system, that will be a totally different ballgame).

 

Why not do it this way, you can still do some basic TA (not going to be pinpoint accurate on your passive system lest you play with your drivers' position and angle). Defeat your rear speakers first, concentrate on your front component then slowly tune up your rear if you think you want to keep your rear passengers occupied. You can still find some balance at the end of the day(don't ask me which day), but don't be too critical about it because, by being critical, you will most likely find yourself into an active setup sooner or later...think about it.

 

Happy TAing though, learn from it and you will soon find yourself enriched with knowledge as you progress along this very interesting ICE journey. Don't say you won't take that path too early, because all you need is a fella to sit in your car and tell you things you never like to hear. That will boil down to how strong-minded you are...amitaba...

Edited July 30, 2007 by Sarong1

[Hungryforcar]

Hai, i try to mute front and rear before. it dun sound the same aft the balance set to 0. guess tuning need expert. is vocal at the central dashboard is the right staging cos this is tune by a workshop uncle?

[Sarong1]

You may want to read the sticky on imaging, soundstage. There is a post I wrote recently...

[Hungryforcar]

heeehee im not very good in sudio one. i tune the time correct base on the tips. ok now i have a question, my rear speaker is louder than front, issit that should b, need to tune from the high pass, low pass at the amp?

 

Bro, i tell you i installed my equipment at one of the famous installer and charge me tuning fee when i bought the apline9887 and in the end, the staff told me, this is his first time touch the hu and the time correct didnt even know how to config, not even diff EQ for diff song. Really cheat money one

Edited July 31, 2007 by Hungryforcar

[Marchison]

  Quote

Hi,

i read the manual still dun quite get it. config the dist from the speaker to your ear right

example L-F- 60cm , R-F 30cm, the vocal sound is more space apart. if i reverse the config example L-F - 30 cm, R-F-60cm the vocal sound is at concentrate at the central dashboard. so which is the correct setting? or both are wrongly config?

 

Based on my DIY experience with my Alpine, TA is to delay further whichever the speaker nearer to you. According to my Alpine manual, the distance and time chart is actually telling you the time duration taken for the sound to travel for the given distance. Not the setting for a measured distance.

 

Hence, if you measure L-F: 60cm, and R-F: 30cm from your desired listening position. Then, to align the sound for both L-F and R-F to reach a point at the same time, you will have to delay R-F by another 30cm (which is the L-F distance minus off the R-F distance). I.e. R-F will have to delay by a time that is equal to the sound took to travel that difference of 30cm. (Read and use the Time delay for that distance from the chart to set your HU)

 

For your case will mean, if cutting of the Rear and Sub, the L-F should be set at 0cm, and R-F at 30cm. Try it, you should get the vocal(normal in centre stage) head on. Then, by adjusting the delay for either L-F or R-F, you will sure realise the shift in the vocal position.

 

Now, with the rear speaker comes in, you will have to measure the distance from each rear speaker to your listening location. Example,. L-R: 110cm and R-R: 100cm. Then, to align them all, you will take the furthest one as reference 0. At such, the setting will be L-R: 0cm, R-R: 10cm, L-F: 50cm, and R-F: 70cm. Remember, Alpine setting for TA is delay.

 

The same will apply to the SUB too. Get all estimate setup first as above, then cut off the rear to fine tune the Front pair for the SUB. As the SUB is now at the furthest distance. You will be able to come to an optimised point where the punch feel from the SUB driving directly on your heart. That's where the Mid bass and the SUB meet.

 

For Rear too loud, you can low it by the front-rear fade, or lower it via the X-over in the HU. As a guide, when you start to feel that sound coming from the rear, then it may be too loud liao. Cut off the SUB, when you are tuning this.

 

Hope that help.

Cheers!

Edited July 31, 2007 by Marchison

[Sarong1]

Hungryforcar, you can read Marchison's explanation. All Time-alignment or time-correction works on the same concept, but the difference lies in how the manufacturers choose to present it. For sure, Alpine, Pioneer and Clarion concept is different already but the science behind TA is essentially the same.

[Hungryforcar]

I tune ytd base on estimate. Sound ok jsut the rear need to tune. my rear speaker is mount at the door and tweeter at the rearboard so i dun know which is the actual distance to measure from the speaker or the rearboard.

i change the subwoofer to mono channel instead of stero sound more clear on the beat, mine is just a 8 inch bass tube.

[Sarong1]

That is the predicament when tuning rear speakers, my experience then was to take the midbass. Depending on the music you play, subwoofer on mono signal will generally sound better on pop and techno but not on jazz, classical and instrumentals. You may want to know that you can't TA a mono signal because it doesn't carry any time information in the signal.

[Hungryforcar]

lost....

[Sarong1]

Dun be lost, if you are lost, you will never get it

[Kermit]

slowly learn lah....it takes at least a few months for you to understand the basics...plus lots of meetups, cos reading alone may not give you the idea well. Forum discussion also not very helpful if you are "blur" in the first place...ICE is an interesting, yet frustrating, but satisfying journey. There is actually no end in this journey...it ends momentarily when you reach a place...then you move again....a lot of us are not ending the journey after all these years, just taking a breather perhaps...and learning, re-learning, de-learning all over again....

Edited August 1, 2007 by Kermit

[Theoldjaffa]

  Quote

According to my Alpine manual, the distance and time chart is actually telling you the time duration taken for the sound to travel for the given distance. Not the setting for a measured distance.

 

Hence, if you measure L-F: 60cm, and R-F: 30cm from your desired listening position. Then, to align the sound for both L-F and R-F to reach a point at the same time, you will have to delay R-F by another 30cm (which is the L-F distance minus off the R-F distance). I.e. R-F will have to delay by a time that is equal to the sound took to travel that difference of 30cm. (Read and use the Time delay for that distance from the chart to set your HU)

 

Cheers!

 

hi bro, does this apply for Pioneer as well?