P80, Passive setup?

[Vroomvroom]

Hi, newbie with a question. Hope its not too controversial.

 

Does it make sense to get a Pioneer P80 HU (one of the better models out there) and yet run it on passive setup?

 

It seems like a waste if this HU which allow network (active), was on passive. (not maximising its functionality)

 

My thought is..if one is running P80 on Passive, than wouldn't a cheaper HU, say with comparable spec to P80 minus the network ability should suffice?

 

all comments appreciated.

Still got alot to learn.

[Sarong1]

It sure makes sense if what you want is simply music. There is nothing wrong in running just passive on P80. You won't be blamed for doing injustice. But should you fast become a car audio critique, you will realise that active is the way to go for the long run. Having a network function is an added option should you decide to go into active in future, why close the option right? The difference in price may not be that much if you are getting used ones. Cheers.

[Nerdyfrog]

get a P1 or P9 lo.

[Vroomvroom]

true..what u said make sense.....now on passive doesnt means forever on passive.

its like an option available for u if one suddenly wants to go active.

 

 

Im a noob seriously (as of now)...i wonder if i can hear the difference btw passive and active as I learn more abt ICE.

 

But one thing i am sure, the P80 metallic sliver outlook is damm cool.

I dislike HU with too many colourful display. To each his own though.

[Hyun]

the difference between an (accurately-tuned) active setup and a passive setup would be, the former would sound realistic, e.g. it would seem to you that things are actually playing music around you at various spots, whereas in passive, it'll all be fuzzy music coming from strange directions. it's that simple, u don't need to "wonder if you can hear the difference". it's very obvious.

[Vroomvroom]

thanks for the enlightment.

[Clarence07]

hey bro

 

a very good 'layman' sort of explanations :P

 

cheers

[Spinworkx]

Haha, lucky Dr Hyun never use his doctor lingo to explain...confirm blur haha

[Clarence07]

Hey bro

 

It takes a real expert to explain technical stuff in layman language.

[Slidingturtle]

my two cents, since am still fairly new in the game too...

 

My personal experience is that ice-ing is a learning journey. Doing step by step has let me learn to appreciate each of the component added more (though must admit that the journey in the end is more expensive...). and it is slowly through the struggles of teasing each component (esp when on passive... so few levers... haha) that i slowly start to understand the different levers better too. And of course in between are the many sessions sitting with the gurus at the meetup in different cars to learn what, and how to listen out for, to appreciate the deeper ice... haha.. real education man.

 

So while i definitely agree that going active have its benefits, i wouldn't say running P80 on passive is a waste... the HU does sound pretty nice for its price (unless u are in the anti-pioneer-sound camp...) for me at least having moved from the trusty Pioneer 8650... plus it gives the option of moving to active when the itch is there.

 

p.s. i liked its simple zen like design too

[Hyun]

we're all in this together, here got no sexperts leh. most of us have dabbled in this idea of "active" and have realised its benefits along the way. i find that apart from the other benefits of an "active" configuration, this thing about realism and accuracy stands out as possibly the most obvious and important benefit. other side benefits like raising soundstage etc may be good, but even if whatever stage doesn't get raised, the instant benefit of "realism" will be apparent to everyone, newbies included.

 

going into non-layman language, we've been using this word "active" so commonly but this word only describes one aspect of the whole configuration, which is "active crossover", when in actual fact, the factor which you could say accomplishes much of the work is independent speaker TA. you could even have a so-called "active" effect (or "realistic" effect) by simply using independent speaker channels, running through passive crossovers, using independent speaker TA. so technically this example has no "active" component in it :)

 

independent TA isn't the only reason why you can achieve realism, but it's actually the defining character of the configuration - something that, without which, the entire concept falls apart. you can throw away the active crossover and still achieve this "realism", but you can't throw away the TA cos there ain't no other way to control the timing of each speaker's wave arrivals. and if you don't time the wave arrivals accurately, it's like buying a home audio system and sitting in some strange position in the room reading your newspaper.

[Slonez]

My definition of "active" is ACTIVELY ENJOYING THE MUSIC!

[Vroomvroom]

sorry newbie question prolly seems stupid. but i dont get it.

 

Based on what u said, I have this impression that to achieve the realism of ICE, its largely dependant on TA from ur component speakers, tweeter, woofer etc... (correct me if im wrong)

 

P80 if i am not mistaken comes with this Auto time alignment function. how does it fits or relate to the TA concept which u mentioned?

 

I have this newbie impression that- P80 is that powerful yet simple to use...whereby I just need to set the auto time alignment function to what I want and tts it.., I get the realism (centered sound) from the auto TA function no matter if it is on passive or active setup.

 

very confused. can advise?

Edited May 23, 2007 by Vroomvroom

[Hyun]

as a newbie, i was also perpetually confused about all this active business etc. the gist of the idea is this:

 

TA is hugely responsible for the realism effect. but you ask, what about good quality speakers?

 

u buy budget speakers, u need the accurate TA too.

u buy expensive speakers, u need the accurate TA too.

i.e. TA applies to EVERYONE, no matter what budget.

if you have a set of speakers, whatever budget, and play without TA, it's like buying a set of home speakers, sitting on top of the right speaker and listening to music. your Right tweeter is near you, your right midbass is also pretty near but below you, and the other speaker is like somewhere else, donno where .... thats why you don't see people with home hifi sets sitting on their speakers listening to music ....

 

P80 and some other units have auto TA. it works to quite an extent to help you GUESS what's the ideal TA to set for your configuration. but it's not perfect. i've seen it being "fooled" into displaying strange values. sometimes, if u do the same auto feature twice, u get 2 different numbers (maybe slightly different only). but it could give you a ROUGH IDEA what should be the setting.

 

but TA isn't that complicated, really. so, in my opinion (which i must admit is not entirely shared by the community, so don't be surprised if u get different answers from other people) - TA is very easy to learn. u don't even really need any TA. your ideal TA value in your car should nearly always be (or almost equal to) the EXACT distance your speakers are to your head. and i really mean EXACT. TA is THAT simple.

[Boring]

TA simple? Ha! I lost lots of hair on TA man... going bald! Of cos to the doctor it might be a different story

[Clarence07]

For a non technical and not so patient person, i just sub contract all my worries to the installer and learn along the way if possible. :)

[Hyun]

thought ur TA long ago settled liao? your drifting issues isn't due to TA lah. victor more or less settled all these problems, also using the same method. i heard u're holding the phase checker CD ah ... got zap the track or not? i waiting to do the pulse experiment leh ...