Cashcard Deduction Error

[Tubalog]

Hmmm... I encountered the same problem a few weeks ago. Difference is only that there was no beeps on my IU. The machine could not deduct from my IU and the barrier went up automatically. Same thing happened for the few cars in front and presumably for the cars behind too.

[Vratenza]

Beep beep, you’ve been billed twice: Cases of double deduction at carparks

 

Carpark operators admit double deductions occur, but say complaints are uncommon

 

Christopher Tan

Senior Transport Correspondent

 

 

Warning: You may be charged twice for parking - and not even know it.

Carpark operators admit double deductions by electronic parking systems (EPS) do happen here, but claim they are rare.

The Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), which operates 134 off-street carparks, said it had received "fewer than 10 reports" of double deductions at carparks equipped with EPS.

"The errors were due to technical issues and our EPS operators have refunded the affected motorists," a URA spokesman said.

The Housing Board, which operates some 1,800 carparks here, said it had encountered only two such cases in the past five years.

 

 

An HDB spokesman said both cases were caused by possible malfunction of the cars' in-vehicle units (IUs).

Wilson Parking, another major operator here, did not respond to press queries.

The low incidence may, however, be because motorists are unaware when a double deduction occurs.

Motorist Winston Foo, 54, said: "The odd thing is the double deductions are not reflected in the transaction slip printed. The only way is to tally the opening balance after top-up and the closing balance."

Mr Foo, a retiree, said he did just that and uncovered at least five cases of double deductions since last December.

"I'd like to know where the missing money goes to and how can it be accounted for by carpark operators or the CashCard company," he said.

The HDB said there were "a few double deductions recorded in Mr Foo's in-vehicle unit in recent months". "To pre-empt similar incidents in future, our service provider has offered to assist Mr Foo in getting his IU checked at Vicom."

The HDB said it will also refund Mr Foo.

Motorists occasionally complain about double deductions on car sites such as MyCarForum.

Retiree Ang Kim Hock, 60, said he discovered a double deduction in 2014 and another last year.

"The carpark operator is aware of the problem and informed me that it happens infrequently," Mr Ang said. "I told them this is not the point... This is a serious breach, and it should be rectified."

He said he also contacted CashCard provider Nets.

"Nets told me that all these unrecorded deductions go into a float account and it will stay there until someone makes a claim," he said. "But how to make a claim if people are not even aware of the double deduction?"

A Nets spokesman told The Straits Times: "Cases of a second deduction are uncommon but may arise if the operator's system did not record the first deduction successfully and may proceed to initiate another deduction.

"As in any payment transaction, customers are advised to check that the correct amount is deducted."

He added that "to deliver greater convenience to consumers", Nets' 2,000 self-service kiosks will soon be equipped to make refunds.

"A consumer who encounters a double deduction can either contact Nets or the carpark operator," the spokesman said. "Nets will investigate the case and if the claim is valid, we will set aside the refund amount and link this amount to the card CAN number."

Nets will then contact the consumer that the refund is ready at the self-service kiosk. The consumer can then place the card into the machine at the station, press the "credit/rebate" button, and the correct amount will be credited back to the card, Nets said.

Nets can be contacted on 6274-1212 or [email protected].

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/beep-beep-youve-been-billed-twice-cases-of-double-deduction-at-carparks

 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Vratenza

[Blueray]

This appears to a known problem but parties involved just keep quiet and act blur and wait for people to submit claim. Knn.

 

Anyways. Just take note of cash card value to avoid being overcharged.

[Vratenza]

My issue with this is that there is definitely technological solutions to this problem:

 

drive up to exit gantry, IU sensor detects the IU, made deduction for that particular IU unit.

 

Then if the IU sensor re-detects the same IU number within say 5 seconds, there should be algorithm to tell the system that there is an error and the gantry should not open and the the carpark operator can communicate with the driver through intercom to clarify before letting the car drive off.

 

For guys who says that this will hold up the other people waiting to exit: The carpark operator claims that is a rare occurrence, if it is so rare, they should have no problem holding up the traffic for that once in a million chance it occurs.

 

So it is not a matter of lack of ability but a lack of will on the part of the carpark operators.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Vratenza

[Apple-Tree]

Rule 101, you only put in the cashcard when prompted.

 

In the way, you get free parking from time to time. 

 

Especially the weather is warm, it affects electronics

[Kusje]

 

 

 

Carpark operators admit double deductions occur, but say complaints are uncommon

 

 

 

 

 

Complaints are uncommon because it doesn't make sense for us to spend 2-3 hours finding the right person to refund my 2 dollars of parking charges and then monitoring my bank account for the next week to make sure that the money is received....

[Vratenza]

Complaints are uncommon because it doesn't make sense for us to spend 2-3 hours finding the right person to refund my 2 dollars of parking charges and then monitoring my bank account for the next week to make sure that the money is received....

 

They learn from the best...EZ-link

 

Only retirees have the time to go tango with them to refund the extra charges.

 

That said, even if I don't bother to get my $2 back, these "ill-gotten" money should be legislated to go to the charities and not into bonus of these private companies.

[Blueray]

yes, the approach and spirit of things is totally wrong, known errors are covered up and simply waiting for people to come forward to make claims.

 

in Ez-Link case was pertaining to bus journeys and if it had not be brought up, would have gone unnoticed. operator and vendor have no liability when things go wrong. even then, to make a claim for ez-link is very troublesome.

 

it should be the other way round whereby operator and vendor can be fined for such errors ... then we see more sense of responsibility and ownership.

 

don't expect CASE or anybody to champion our rights.

 

just have to monitor our cash card values ourselves. ownself depend ownself.

[Kangadrool]

On the other hand, if we underpaid them, they are protected by law and they can fine us. What a world!

 

If the system can auto deduct, I don't see any technical issue for them to auto credit whenever there's an error. It's matter whether they want it or not - sincerity.

 

yes, the approach and spirit of things is totally wrong, known errors are covered up and simply waiting for people to come forward to make claims.

 

in Ez-Link case was pertaining to bus journeys and if it had not be brought up, would have gone unnoticed. operator and vendor have no liability when things go wrong. even then, to make a claim for ez-link is very troublesome.

 

it should be the other way round whereby operator and vendor can be fined for such errors ... then we see more sense of responsibility and ownership.

 

don't expect CASE or anybody to champion our rights.

 

just have to monitor our cash card values ourselves. ownself depend ownself.

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Kangadrool

[Kusje]

yes, the approach and spirit of things is totally wrong, known errors are covered up and simply waiting for people to come forward to make claims.

 

in Ez-Link case was pertaining to bus journeys and if it had not be brought up, would have gone unnoticed. operator and vendor have no liability when things go wrong. even then, to make a claim for ez-link is very troublesome.

 

it should be the other way round whereby operator and vendor can be fined for such errors ... then we see more sense of responsibility and ownership.

 

don't expect CASE or anybody to champion our rights.

 

just have to monitor our cash card values ourselves. ownself depend ownself.

 

Yeah lor....

 

How many other businesses charge you first upfront then refund you when you don't spend the full expected amount? 

[Blueray]

On the other hand, if we underpaid them, they are protected by law and they can fine us. What a world!

 

If the system can auto deduct, I don't see any technical issue for them to auto credit whenever there's an error. It's matter whether they want it or not - sincerity.

 

yup, we claim to be First World in many things but when come to consumer rights, we are far from best practices in other developed nations.

 

honestly, must admit I have not been monitoring my cash card values but from now on I will.

 

because when there is an error, its the consumers who end up paying for it. 

[Kusje]

yup, we claim to be First World in many things but when come to consumer rights, we are far from best practices in other developed nations.

 

honestly, must admit I have not been monitoring my cash card values but from now on I will.

 

because when there is an error, its the consumers who end up paying for it. 

 

How should we go about doing this?

 

Quite difficult to have to record down everytime I pass a gantry or get out of the carpark.

[Turboguy]

Have a habit of glancing at your IU to confirm the amount deducted, when it beeps after an amount is deducted from your cashcard at the exit gantry. I trust my IU more than the car park display.

 

My cashcard was deducted $15++ though i only parked 3 hrs at yck sports complex. I went to atm to print out the cashcard transaction to confirm the error deduction, and emailed the car park vendor. They bank transferred the amount within a month.

[Blueray]

How should we go about doing this?

 

Quite difficult to have to record down everytime I pass a gantry or get out of the carpark.

 

just make a mental note of the cash card value before entering car park and after ... 

 

cannot trust these fuggers cos they have no liability when they overcharge. 

[Mustank]

 

Beep beep, you’ve been billed twice: Cases of double deduction at carparks

 

Carpark operators admit double deductions occur, but say complaints are uncommon

 

Christopher Tan

Senior Transport Correspondent

 

 

Warning: You may be charged twice for parking - and not even know it.

Carpark operators admit double deductions by electronic parking systems (EPS) do happen here, but claim they are rare.

The Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), which operates 134 off-street carparks, said it had received "fewer than 10 reports" of double deductions at carparks equipped with EPS.

"The errors were due to technical issues and our EPS operators have refunded the affected motorists," a URA spokesman said.

The Housing Board, which operates some 1,800 carparks here, said it had encountered only two such cases in the past five years.

 

 

An HDB spokesman said both cases were caused by possible malfunction of the cars' in-vehicle units (IUs).

Wilson Parking, another major operator here, did not respond to press queries.

The low incidence may, however, be because motorists are unaware when a double deduction occurs.

Motorist Winston Foo, 54, said: "The odd thing is the double deductions are not reflected in the transaction slip printed. The only way is to tally the opening balance after top-up and the closing balance."

Mr Foo, a retiree, said he did just that and uncovered at least five cases of double deductions since last December.

"I'd like to know where the missing money goes to and how can it be accounted for by carpark operators or the CashCard company," he said.

The HDB said there were "a few double deductions recorded in Mr Foo's in-vehicle unit in recent months". "To pre-empt similar incidents in future, our service provider has offered to assist Mr Foo in getting his IU checked at Vicom."

The HDB said it will also refund Mr Foo.

Motorists occasionally complain about double deductions on car sites such as MyCarForum.

Retiree Ang Kim Hock, 60, said he discovered a double deduction in 2014 and another last year.

"The carpark operator is aware of the problem and informed me that it happens infrequently," Mr Ang said. "I told them this is not the point... This is a serious breach, and it should be rectified."

He said he also contacted CashCard provider Nets.

"Nets told me that all these unrecorded deductions go into a float account and it will stay there until someone makes a claim," he said. "But how to make a claim if people are not even aware of the double deduction?"

A Nets spokesman told The Straits Times: "Cases of a second deduction are uncommon but may arise if the operator's system did not record the first deduction successfully and may proceed to initiate another deduction.

"As in any payment transaction, customers are advised to check that the correct amount is deducted."

He added that "to deliver greater convenience to consumers", Nets' 2,000 self-service kiosks will soon be equipped to make refunds.

"A consumer who encounters a double deduction can either contact Nets or the carpark operator," the spokesman said. "Nets will investigate the case and if the claim is valid, we will set aside the refund amount and link this amount to the card CAN number."

Nets will then contact the consumer that the refund is ready at the self-service kiosk. The consumer can then place the card into the machine at the station, press the "credit/rebate" button, and the correct amount will be credited back to the card, Nets said.

Nets can be contacted on 6274-1212 or [email protected].

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/beep-beep-youve-been-billed-twice-cases-of-double-deduction-at-carparks

 

 

 

for all the trouble the motorist has to go thru to submit the claim, carpark owners should pat $100 + refund amount

in this way, carpark owner has the incentive to ensure this doesn't happen again

Have a habit of glancing at your IU to confirm the amount deducted, when it beeps after an amount is deducted from your cashcard at the exit gantry. I trust my IU more than the car park display.

 

My cashcard was deducted $15++ though i only parked 3 hrs at yck sports complex. I went to atm to print out the cashcard transaction to confirm the error deduction, and emailed the car park vendor. They bank transferred the amount within a month.

 

in other words, in order to know whether you have been over-charged, one must:

 

ownself check ownself 

[Kusje]

This thing doesn't make sense when I read the whole article again....

 

 

 

Motorist Winston Foo, 54, said: "The odd thing is the double deductions are not reflected in the transaction slip printed. The only way is to tally the opening balance after top-up and the closing balance."

 

How can this be? Not reflected in the transaction slip means it is an EZ-link or Nets issue.... not just the parking operator's issue. 

 

 

"Nets told me that all these unrecorded deductions go into a float account and it will stay there until someone makes a claim," he said. "But how to make a claim if people are not even aware of the double deduction?"

A Nets spokesman told The Straits Times: "Cases of a second deduction are uncommon but may arise if the operator's system did not record the first deduction successfully and may proceed to initiate another deduction.

 

 

[Passion]

Nothing is fair in Singapore parking system.

 

1) you stuck in the queue waiting to go out, but the car in front got stuck and our counter keep counting until we exit? So is it our fault to be stucked?

 

2) When a carpark is full, we cannot enter. Neither can we reverse when there are cars queuing behind. Time wasted, is this fair?

 

3) Now, overcharged carpark, users have to do own calculation to detect the error, no integrity from the operator. Is this fair again?

 

Recently, I went to Taiwan. They have a very interesting parking system. I termed it interesting because anyone can just park in the lot and not pay upfront. Someone will ride a motorbike around and issue parking ticket. This ticket is value for 1 hour. This person will ride around and update everyone's ticket on their windscreen. For every 1 hour, he will chop 1 stamp. So depending on how many "Stamp" a ticket has, the driver just pay accordingly. Payment can be done at 7 eleven. Driver will only be summon if they didn't pay up the parking fee, else it is impossible for anyone to kena summon. Of course, the loop hole to this is if the person stamp 1 hour, and just nice driver pass the time by 1 min, has to pay additional hour. But then, I think about it. It is a better system because, how often this person will ride pass and stamp additional 1 hour when kena stuck in the carpark because car in front got stuck is so much higher? There is no additional cost to send people around summon people. Hence, there is no additional cost for car park operator to run in this modus operandi.

[Adrianli]

Nothing is fair in Singapore parking system.

 

1) you stuck in the queue waiting to go out, but the car in front got stuck and our counter keep counting until we exit? So is it our fault to be stucked?

 

2) When a carpark is full, we cannot enter. Neither can we reverse when there are cars queuing behind. Time wasted, is this fair?

 

3) Now, overcharged carpark, users have to do own calculation to detect the error, no integrity from the operator. Is this fair again?

 

Recently, I went to Taiwan. They have a very interesting parking system. I termed it interesting because anyone can just park in the lot and not pay upfront. Someone will ride a motorbike around and issue parking ticket. This ticket is value for 1 hour. This person will ride around and update everyone's ticket on their windscreen. For every 1 hour, he will chop 1 stamp. So depending on how many "Stamp" a ticket has, the driver just pay accordingly. Payment can be done at 7 eleven. Driver will only be summon if they didn't pay up the parking fee, else it is impossible for anyone to kena summon. Of course, the loop hole to this is if the person stamp 1 hour, and just nice driver pass the time by 1 min, has to pay additional hour. But then, I think about it. It is a better system because, how often this person will ride pass and stamp additional 1 hour when kena stuck in the carpark because car in front got stuck is so much higher? There is no additional cost to send people around summon people. Hence, there is no additional cost for car park operator to run in this modus operandi.

 

Similar to Penang. Except over there, you pay it to the parking attendent or go to their central(Komtar building) to make payment.