Component speakers, no amp?

[Jamesc]

  On 8/23/2018 at 5:09 AM, Butakim said:

What's the current range of component speakers for less than $400? Which brands or models to look out for?

Listen to this

 

Hertz HSK 165

 

 

 

Sensitivity dB SPL 92

[Hosaybo]

Good to have a amp to drive... Just like having more horse power for the car... Is not about going to the highest speed (even an attrage could go well above 120), it about ability to control and effortless drive the car, overtaking and reaching desired speed on demand.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Hosaybo

[Butakim]

  On 8/23/2018 at 5:29 AM, Jamesc said:

Listen to this

 

Hertz HSK 165

 

 

 

Sensitivity dB SPL 92

 

Any shops that I can listen to this? 

  On 8/23/2018 at 5:28 AM, Hosaybo said:

Most mass consumer brands, hertz, Cdt, rainbow, etc will have something along 300-400 range.

 

Thanks. Any particular models or things to look out for?

[giraffey99]

  On 8/23/2018 at 8:42 AM, Butakim said:

Any shops that I can listen to this?

 

 

Thanks. Any particular models or things to look out for?

most audio shops would have demo sets of budget speakers to high end ones.

 

more important is to listen to different ones and know the type of characterstic of different brand of speaker. and shortlist those you like.

Edited August 23, 2018 by babyjyo

[Jamesc]

  On 8/23/2018 at 8:42 AM, Butakim said:

Any shops that I can listen to this? 

 

Thanks. Any particular models or things to look out for?

 

From MCF Market Place

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/index.php?app=sgcarstore&req=showprod&product=58169

 

[Butakim]

  On 8/23/2018 at 8:03 AM, Hosaybo said:

Good to have a amp to drive... Just like having more horse power for the car... Is not about going to the highest speed (even an attrage could go well above 120), it about ability to control and effortless drive the car, overtaking and reaching desired speed on demand.

 

What's the rough $$$ for an amp? What to look out for an amp?

 

Seemed the poison getting deeper.

  On 8/23/2018 at 11:09 AM, Jamesc said:

From MCF Market Place

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/index.php?app=sgcarstore&req=showprod&product=58169

 

Thanks

[giraffey99]

  On 8/24/2018 at 1:49 AM, Butakim said:

What's the rough $$$ for an amp? What to look out for an amp?

 

Seemed the poison getting deeper.

 

Thanks

amps can cost $ to $$$$. in an audiophile / high end system, amps may cost may cost much more than its speakers.

 

On which amp to use, would depend on whether its a passive or active setup 2way vs 3way, speaker power requirements, etc.

[Jamesc]

  On 8/24/2018 at 1:49 AM, Butakim said:

What's the rough $$$ for an amp? What to look out for an amp?

 

Seemed the poison getting deeper.

 

Thanks

Listen to the Hertz with and without amp.

 

These speakers are very efficient so an amp is not a must have but just a nice to have.

 

 

Not all speakers are the same.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Jamesc

[jjandyy]

  On 8/24/2018 at 2:47 AM, Jamesc said:

Listen to the Hertz with and without amp.

 

These speakers are very efficient so an amp is not a must have but just a nice to have.

 

 

Not all speakers are the same.

 

 

 

 

This is really an inappropriate advice, efficiency is not the main determinant whether an amp is needed or not. We cannot change physics by just looking at 'efficiency' or just by 'listening' to the speaker with or without amp. (Yes, of course there are speakers with different efficiency thus requiring different power input to drive the voice coil, but people don't look at efficiency to pair speakers)

 

Speakers need to be paired to appropriate amp, and vice-versa, based on RMS/nominal power, or else the speakers or amp or the HU (if used without ext amp) can be damaged.

 

There are a lot of reputable literatures on the internet, below is one example, talking about one common cause of voice-coil damage is due to under-powered amp.

 

https://www.focal.com/en/focal-teach/why-do-voice-coils-burn-out

 

 

 

The Hertz speakers recommended has RMS power of 125W. I don't think any stock or aftermarket HUs have such a high RMS power output. Most stock premium sound systems has an amp installed within the car, could be integrated with HUs or external (usually under seat).

 

Most common aftermarket HUs has power output of 45 - 50W per channel (4ohms), so if want to skip the amp, just find speakers with RMS power in those range. Key is to match the RMS of speaker and amp as close as possible at the same impedance. There are some rules of thumb, just check on the internet.

[Butakim]

Thanks.

[Butakim]

  On 8/24/2018 at 2:47 AM, Jamesc said:

Listen to the Hertz with and without amp.

 

These speakers are very efficient so an amp is not a must have but just a nice to have.

 

 

Not all speakers are the same.

 

Thanks.

[Jamesc]

  On 8/24/2018 at 4:06 AM, jjandyy said:

This is really an inappropriate advice, efficiency is not the main determinant whether an amp is needed or not. We cannot change physics by just looking at 'efficiency' or just by 'listening' to the speaker with or without amp. (Yes, of course there are speakers with different efficiency thus requiring different power input to drive the voice coil, but people don't look at efficiency to pair speakers)

 

Speakers need to be paired to appropriate amp, and vice-versa, based on RMS/nominal power, or else the speakers or amp or the HU (if used without ext amp) can be damaged.

 

There are a lot of reputable literatures on the internet, below is one example, talking about one common cause of voice-coil damage is due to under-powered amp.

 

https://www.focal.com/en/focal-teach/why-do-voice-coils-burn-out

 

 

 

The Hertz speakers recommended has RMS power of 125W. I don't think any stock or aftermarket HUs have such a high RMS power output. Most stock premium sound systems has an amp installed within the car, could be integrated with HUs or external (usually under seat).

 

Most common aftermarket HUs has power output of 45 - 50W per channel (4ohms), so if want to skip the amp, just find speakers with RMS power in those range. Key is to match the RMS of speaker and amp as close as possible at the same impedance. There are some rules of thumb, just check on the internet.

 

It depends on how loud you want to drive your speakers.

 

If you are a heavy metal fan and want to drive your speakers to rock concert levels

 

then you should add an amp.

 

If you don't wish to blow your ear drum and not play at rock concert level then you

 

can do without the amp if its very efficient.

 

A Ferrari can do more than 200 kmh but if you drive at most 90 kmh do you need a

 

Ferrari?

 

How many Hertz speakers have you seen destroyed when played at normal level?

 

Lastly people play their cheapo speakers in their cars loudly and it didn't get destroyed

 

so if they change to good quality speakers and play it at the same level the good speakers

 

will be destroyed? So the cheapo speakers are better made? 

 

 

[Jamesc]

  On 8/24/2018 at 4:06 AM, jjandyy said:

This is really an inappropriate advice, efficiency is not the main determinant whether an amp is needed or not. We cannot change physics by just looking at 'efficiency' or just by 'listening' to the speaker with or without amp. (Yes, of course there are speakers with different efficiency thus requiring different power input to drive the voice coil, but people don't look at efficiency to pair speakers)

 

Speakers need to be paired to appropriate amp, and vice-versa, based on RMS/nominal power, or else the speakers or amp or the HU (if used without ext amp) can be damaged.

 

There are a lot of reputable literatures on the internet, below is one example, talking about one common cause of voice-coil damage is due to under-powered amp.

 

https://www.focal.com/en/focal-teach/why-do-voice-coils-burn-out

 

 

 

The Hertz speakers recommended has RMS power of 125W. I don't think any stock or aftermarket HUs have such a high RMS power output. Most stock premium sound systems has an amp installed within the car, could be integrated with HUs or external (usually under seat).

 

Most common aftermarket HUs has power output of 45 - 50W per channel (4ohms), so if want to skip the amp, just find speakers with RMS power in those range. Key is to match the RMS of speaker and amp as close as possible at the same impedance. There are some rules of thumb, just check on the internet.

 

Not all watts are the same. 45 - 50 W amps might sound low to you but only the first watt is

 

important. The amp below only has 15 watts but has no problem driving the big speakers below

 

that is rated for 90 watts. I know looking at the size of the big speakers its unbelievable that a puny 

 

amp all of 15 watts can drive such a big thing. But its true.If you want to debate people on amps and

 

power handling of speakers you should google and read up on SET (single end triode) amps and

 

how big the speakers they can drive.

 

[RogerNg_185295]

  On 8/24/2018 at 2:47 AM, Jamesc said:

Listen to the Hertz with and without amp.

 

These speakers are very efficient so an amp is not a must have but just a nice to have.

 

 

Not all speakers are the same.

 

I am sure you are not into in car entertainment system

[Budgetice]

  On 8/24/2018 at 8:36 AM, Jamesc said:

Not all watts are the same. 45 - 50 W amps might sound low to you but only the first watt is

 

important. The amp below only has 15 watts but has no problem driving the big speakers below

 

that is rated for 90 watts. I know looking at the size of the big speakers its unbelievable that a puny

 

amp all of 15 watts can drive such a big thing. But its true.If you want to debate people on amps and

 

power handling of speakers you should google and read up on SET (single end triode) amps and

 

how big the speakers they can drive.

 

Chill bro, lots of self proclaimed experts here using theory to justify stuff.. dont get so angry

 

Try telling them to supply 125 rms to the hertz tweeter and see wat happens.

[Jamesc]

  On 8/24/2018 at 4:06 AM, jjandyy said:

This is really an inappropriate advice, efficiency is not the main determinant whether an amp is needed or not. We cannot change physics by just looking at 'efficiency' or just by 'listening' to the speaker with or without amp. (Yes, of course there are speakers with different efficiency thus requiring different power input to drive the voice coil, but people don't look at efficiency to pair speakers)

 

Speakers need to be paired to appropriate amp, and vice-versa, based on RMS/nominal power, or else the speakers or amp or the HU (if used without ext amp) can be damaged.

 

There are a lot of reputable literatures on the internet, below is one example, talking about one common cause of voice-coil damage is due to under-powered amp.

 

https://www.focal.com/en/focal-teach/why-do-voice-coils-burn-out

 

 

 

The Hertz speakers recommended has RMS power of 125W. I don't think any stock or aftermarket HUs have such a high RMS power output. Most stock premium sound systems has an amp installed within the car, could be integrated with HUs or external (usually under seat).

 

Most common aftermarket HUs has power output of 45 - 50W per channel (4ohms), so if want to skip the amp, just find speakers with RMS power in those range. Key is to match the RMS of speaker and amp as close as possible at the same impedance. There are some rules of thumb, just check on the internet.

 

This video is just for you.

 

This is how a 1.3 watt amp sounds.

 

And the voice coils did not explode.

 

  Quote

71A is a directly heated small power triode widely used for home radios as a competitor of 45. Like 45, this bulb has a transparent sound although the power is small (0.8W at most).This amplifier utilized cathode-follower drive by 6S4A, resulting in the maximum power of 1.3W.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Jamesc

[Jamesc]

How about something more powerful.

 

A 1.5 watt amp?

 

 

The EL84 was triode connnected & driven by 6211. Expected 1.5 Watts/ch power output.

 

 

[jjandyy]

Really?! So we don't need to look at technical specs when buying speakers and amp? Just by feeling will be OK? That also means designers of amp and speakers can just forget about the electrical and electronic rules when designing and spec'cing their products, and maybe they should just do away with specs on their products.

 

I am not a self-proclaimed expert, just a laymen person who fortunate enough to attend high-school and learned Physics without falling asleep. 

 

 

Unfortunately we are talking about in-car audio here, which uses semiconductors in amplification circuits, so don't throw what single end triode into the discussion.

 

 

Regarding the comment about "Try telling them to supply 125 rms to the hertz tweeter and see wat happens", (btw don't forget the unit of power, W, if want to act technical)

 

All I can say is, luckily we still have people who go to school and studied well, became designers and engineers at good sound companies, and they designed component systems that comes with crossovers with clear instructions to USE them together with tweeters, to help people who could be misled by inappropriate advice from the internet forum. Some mass market tweeters even come with wired crossover/filter to foolproof them. So the tweeters are saved.

 

 

I am just curious, if <2W is enough for application in in-car audio why hasn't the world adopted it and saved some serious money in the process? Yeah, MAYBE the companies are trying to squeeze more money from consumers by not using the low power solution.

 

 

Anyway, I don't think we are talking rocket science here, so it's up to fellow forumers who made more sense.

 

ciao!

Really?! So we don't need to look at technical specs when buying speakers and amp? Just by feeling will be OK? That also means designers of amp and speakers can just forget about the electrical and electronic rules when designing and spec'cing their products?

 

I am not a self-proclaimed expert, just a laymen person who fortunate enough to attend high-school and learned Physics without falling asleep. 

 

Unfortunately we are talking about in-car audio here, which uses semiconductors in amplification circuits so that they can work with 12V/24V DC power, so don't throw what single end triode into the discussion.

 

Regarding the comment about "Try telling them to supply 125 rms to the hertz tweeter and see wat happens", (btw don't forget the unit of power lah if want to act technical)

 

All I can say is, luckily we still have people who go to school and studied well, became designers and engineers at good sound companies, and they designed component systems that comes with crossovers with clear instructions to USE them together with tweeters, to help people who could be misled by inappropriate advice from the internet forum. Some mass market tweeters even come with wired crossover/filter to foolproof them. So the tweeters are saved.