Hybrid Technologies: The Moment of Truth

[Koolaba]

Top at low speeds, Flop at high speeds: This is how critics evaluate the Lexus RX 400h.

 

By Leo Musil

 

"One must take his hat off: It is unbelievable, which Toyota has made." The Viennese engineer Fritz Indra paid tribute to the development engineers of the Lexus RX 400h. Together with his professor colleague, G

[Gilgamesh]

Can already lah for Sillypore road conditions. How many times can we drive past 150km/hr without risking having your picture taken by candid cameras? and even if we manage to siam camera or TP, according to Dr M, we will drive into the sea with these kinda speed.

[Blackyv]

actually hor, even our car now also produce the same result mah.... speed at ~80kmh-100kmh good FC but speed at 150kmh and above, sure drink petrol....so, what's so bad about the hybrid??....

[Genie47]

so, what's so bad about the hybrid??....

More expensive to buy.

[Koolaba]

If you have read the report in detail, it is not easy to discover that the academics in Vienna have considered the hybrid drive-train to be complicated in construction. Besides the high cost outlay to get a hybrid car, potential owners have to return to authorised agents to get the cars maintained. External workshops do not have the expertise, yet, to repair such cars. When it comes to repair and servicing charges, hybrid car owners will be at the mercy of authorised agents.

 

If you read in between the lines of the concluding sentence in this report, the other drive-train which is implied is diesel engines. A pity we are slapped with 6x road tax for owning a diesel powered private car in Singapore.

[Koolaba]

... and to maintain.

[Wishcumstrue]

Generally, hybrid cars (esp Pruis)has the same, if not lower, avg scheduled servicing cost as current ICE vehicles:

 

Statement from Toyota,USA:

"The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle. We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second-generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may be needed it won't be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear.

[Genie47]

Actually their maintenance is not that expensive compared to a regular car. Just that the cost of buying one puts you off.

[Tacheron]

The high cost for now is due to the lower volume of production at the moment.

 

There are 2 points to note in this report, the origins of it is from Austria which belongs to the camp that advocates the use of diesel. Look at the reports originating from US, a large number of them heap praises on the hybrid systems.

 

Secondly, 150km/h how often do we drive it in at such a speed? A hybrid car is designed for optimum usage between 50-90 or 100km/h. Why do we even look at the specifications when its out of the range.

 

I take this report with a large pinch of salt. One important fact to note is who commissioned this study? The aim comes through quite clearly at smearing hybrid cars and implicitly saying diesel or petrol driven cars are still the "best" choice.

 

Why look at diesel and petrol at this point in time? Many camps have said diesel is among other things cheap or some diesel engines can now be replaced by biodiesel. Ultimately, to produce any form of diesel, basic fossil fuel is needed. Someone did post an article on the myth of the brilliance of biodiesel some time back. How likely are we going to have sustained supply of fossil fuel.

 

Trains moved from coal to steam to electric and magnetic levitation. Cars will ultimately shift from fossil fuel to other forms. The question now is will hybrid cars be the main stay or something else replace it.

[Koolaba]

Hi,

 

You could have over-reacted a little to articles which highlight or seem to imply the short-comings of technologies pioneered by Japanese automotive makers. In this article, the findings are obtained based on the most common categories of traffic condition in Europe.

 

Point to note: In Europe, it is paramount that a car is able to withstand long distance driving without any hiccups. As such, drive-train technologies which are tried and tested, with a low probability of developing problems are preferred. Engine technologies e.g. diesel technology, which are able to deliver exceptional mileage returns are added bonuses.

 

It is definitely no joke if one encounters any of the following problems while embarking on a long distance journey, especially on high-speed travel.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2143953/...g-stalls-toyota

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_prius.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005...us_stalls3.html

 

If you have not test driven the Toyota Prius before, I would strongly encourage you to do so. The positive points of the hybrid drive-train are not difficult to discover: extremely quiet drive with excellent NVH characteristics and excellent FC figures if you prod the accelerator lightly to encourage the electric motor to propel the car.

 

However, when the situation calls for immediate acceleration response in our local driving context, the petrol and electric drive-train seem to be at a loss which should propel the car. The lag is quite significant before the either of / both the power plants take control. The seconds lost is significant in tricky driving conditions.

 

Last but not least, here is a site which should clear some misunderstandings of biodiesel.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/biodies...cs/default.shtm

 

Quote: "Biodiesel is the name of a clean burning alternative fuel, produced from domestic, renewable resources. Biodiesel contains no petroleum, but it can be blended at any level with petroleum diesel to create a biodiesel blend. It can be used in compression-ignition (diesel) engines with little or no modifications. Biodiesel is simple to use, biodegradable, nontoxic, and essentially free of sulfur and aromatics.

"

[Silver_blade]

I feel diesel powered car is the way to go for now. Good FC and clean.

[Koolaba]

I second your opinion. Diesel technology is around for at least 20 years - essentially a tried and tested technology which is still undergoing enhancements e.g. particulate filter, process to reduce NOx emission further. Diesel engines are less complex than hybrid drive-trains.

 

In terms of pricing, diesel cars command a lower premium compared to petrol-hybrid cars over petrol cars.

 

An interesting development in drive-train technology is the diesel hybrid technology, pioneered by PSA Peugeot Citroen. The advantages over the petrol hybrid systems are clear.

http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/en/psa_...s_d1.php?id=534

[BoneStock]

I will prefer a TDi anytime if it is available here

[Elfenstar]

Biodiesel is simple to use, biodegradable, nontoxic, and essentially free of sulfur and aromatics....

 

I disagree with that... if you've been behind a diesel vehicle with high levels of biodiesel from McD's you smell hamburgers Its true though... you can smell it

 

Edit: i think hybrid is the way to go for diesels as i most manufacturers are having an issue with emissions. Yes diesels get low co/co2 readings, but they get much higher readings in sulphate and nitride pollutants, and thus right now euro5 is going to be an issue without hybrid tech.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Elfenstar

[Koolaba]

Hi bro,

 

Aromatics refer to a class of organic compunds which contain the benzene ring.

http://members.tripod.com/~EppE/organic.htm

They do not literally mean compunds which give out a certain smell, be it fragrance or odour.

[Elfenstar]

I know lah, was just pulling your leg on that, and also highlighting the bane of any person who's trying to lose weight when it comes to smelling exhaust gases from a biodiesel fuel vehicle

[Koolaba]

Good sense of humour

 

In fact, during my schooldays, I did have a classmate who commented that aromatic organic compunds give off a certain fragrance, when our Chemistry teacher asked him for the definition.

[Tacheron]

hi all,

 

I think there is some misunderstanding of my posting.

Firstly, my humble opinion is that be it petrol, diesel or hybrid cars, my personal view is that all three will be very unlikely the choice of technology for the cars in the future. Simply because all 3 are still dependent on fossil fuel at various stages of processing and usage. For biodiesel, no doubt it can be refined from corn, plants etc, but where does the energy to power the distiller and machinery come from? Solar power or basic fossil fuels that run the turbines and generators? So point here: Is biodiesel really that "environmentally friendly and independent of fossil fuel?" Answer is quite squarely no.

 

I would like to point out in the context of Singapore, petrols commands a premium mainly due to heavy government taxing. Frankly speaking, if a whole slew of diesel powered cars are to be the majority of the car sales, do you think diesel pricing will still be low? The very likely scenario will be that the government will also tax it heavily to control the car population.

 

Lastly, it was mentioned about lag and etc. about the hybrid cars. Think of it from another angle. If all cars on the roads are now hybrid, all cars will have the same lag and will it be so dangerous as you have mentioned? The issue now is that we are comfortable with the present way that car engines perform and by introducing another engine that performs differently, when both of them coexist, definitely awkward situations arise.

 

Personally, I feel that we exist in a period of transition now where the car makers are experimenting to discover the next technology that will become prevalent. From the points I have made and gathered from various reports, petrol and diesel definitely won't make it as the next wave. In addition, hybrid cars are the temporary stop-gap solution to delay the exhaustion of fossil fuels.

 

My 2 cents